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Old 29th March 2006, 13:06   #16
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Info about the DICOR indigo - Tata officials at the AutoExpo. The guy told me that due to Emission norms this has to come.
As for the X2, even Ratan tata and all senior officials have been harping about the new "X2" platform coming in 2007 on which Sumo replacement, safari replacement and maybe a innova type car(displayed at the expo) will be based.
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Old 29th March 2006, 13:11   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
At the geneva auto show, while everybody was looking at the cliffrider, the indigo marina DICOR got unnoticed. The car as a 1.4 litre Euro IV engine, and has to be here before Apr 2007 as govt norms demand it.
The DICOR will be available with 70 and 90bhp engine options. My guess is that since Tata-Fiat is jointly manufacturing the multijet(70bhp) engine at the Ranjangaon plant, the small cars will get the 1.3L mutijet with sedans getting the 90bhp 1.4.
Are you sure about the April 2007 deadline for Euro-IV norm? As per my knowledge, metros will go Euro IV only in 2008.

It would not be good economics to manufacture the same engine (FIAT 1.3 multijet) at two plants- Maruti's and Ranjangaon. Probably, Tata will source the 1.3 multijet from Maruti only under some kind of tripartite arrangement.

90 BHP from 1.4 litre Indica engine appears too high even with DICOR considering the BHP figures of the 1.3 multijet and Ford Fiesta 1.4 diesel.
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Old 29th March 2006, 13:15   #18
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Originally Posted by directinjection
It would not be good economics to manufacture the same engine (FIAT 1.3 multijet) at two plants- Maruti's and Ranjangaon. Probably, Tata will source the 1.3 multijet from Maruti only under some kind of tripartite arrangement.
I also think similarly, but ACI April issue clearly mentions that Tata-Fiat have decided to produce this engine separately at Ranjangaon. They are planning to use the same base of suppliers who have supplied for Maruti and they are planning to get the cost of the engine down as much as possible.
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Old 29th March 2006, 13:20   #19
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The tata 1.4 produces more power than the ford even without DICOR. So 90bhp is plausible. And why would Tata lie that the engine is capable of 90bhp. Incidently Tata has also developed the new 1.4L petrol engine pumping 100bhp. Some automag(ACI I think) also had a drive of the 100bhp indigo
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Old 29th March 2006, 14:38   #20
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This begs the question - if Tata have a 90bhp 1.4 litre Dicor engine, why would they need a 72bhp 1.3 litre Fiat multijet?
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Old 29th March 2006, 14:47   #21
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Originally Posted by Steeroid
This begs the question - if Tata have a 90bhp 1.4 litre Dicor engine, why would they need a 72bhp 1.3 litre Fiat multijet?
Precisely my question. Why build an entire range of 1.3 engine when you have a Dicor engine of your own? Maybe, they both are planning a smaller car? Maybe, Indigo+ will get 1.4 and Indica 1.3? (I do not see any logic here though). This one beats me too.
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Old 29th March 2006, 14:49   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
The tata 1.4 produces more power than the ford even without DICOR. So 90bhp is plausible. And why would Tata lie that the engine is capable of 90bhp. Incidently Tata has also developed the new 1.4L petrol engine pumping 100bhp. Some automag(ACI I think) also had a drive of the 100bhp indigo
Come to think of it, 90 BHP is possible if the engine has been modified to a twin-cam 16 valve set up. Even FIAT 1.3 multijet has a 90 BHP version in Europe, with 16 valves. The 70 BHP version has 8 valves. Similarly, the 1.9 litre multijet diesel as fitted in European cars comes in two versions: one with 8 valves and developing 120 BHP and the other with 16 valves developing 150 BHP. In India, the same engine block (fitted in Palio and Petra diesels) develops a measely 70 BHP, in the absence of CRDI.

So, 90 BHP from a 1.4 block is possible and I am happy to see Tata getting ambitious with its engines.
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Old 29th March 2006, 15:01   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepakhon
Precisely my question. Why build an entire range of 1.3 engine when you have a Dicor engine of your own? Maybe, they both are planning a smaller car? Maybe, Indigo+ will get 1.4 and Indica 1.3? (I do not see any logic here though). This one beats me too.
I do see the logic here. Tata plans to export Indica to Europe on a larger scale than it has done so far. An Indian car fitted with a proven 1.3 litre FIAT engine would help its sales in Europe. People there may not trust an unknown Indian engine that much. Most CityRover drivers used to complain about its engine being too coarse and noisy (it was fitted with the 85 BHP petrol unit found in Indigo). So, Tata will probably fit the export cars with 1.3 multijet and use the indigenous 1.4 litre engine locally.
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Old 29th March 2006, 16:22   #24
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First and foremost, as I was recently reading, the diesel engine Maruti will maufacture at Haryana are licensed through GM and not directly through FIAT as is the common understanding. So Ranjangaon and the Haryana plants are probably not exactly duplication in theoritical terms.

Now, why would Tata like to develop so many engines? Well, in India we have this tradition of having 4-5 variants of one car and still running the same engine. And if that is not bad enough Tatas are essentially using the same engine for the hatchback, sedan and even their statio wagon. So they would definitely want to set that thing right. The argument becomes more compelling when you look at the overseas hopes that Tatas harbor. I am not at all surprised that they are trying to develop a range of engines in their portfolio. In fact they are already on record saying that even in the domestic market it will become tougher to have essentially one platform for all cars (indica platform) and still manage to lure the customers. That is why Tatas are developing other platforms as well.
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Old 29th March 2006, 23:50   #25
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I have heard from a reliable source that Tata would not be using the Fiat Jtdi's in India. They are only willing to propogate the Fiat petrols in India and they will not be introducing or using the Jtdi's here at all.

And yes the Indigo DICOR is already being tested and has to be out by April 2007. However it will be sold alongside the E-III TDi's with the DICOR in major cities only.

Also, the LWB Indigo will be out in mid 2007 and Tata is also planning a crossover in the near future.
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Old 30th March 2006, 00:13   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by directinjection
Come to think of it, 90 BHP is possible if the engine has been modified to a twin-cam 16 valve set up. Even FIAT 1.3 multijet has a 90 BHP version in Europe, with 16 valves. The 70 BHP version has 8 valves. Similarly, the 1.9 litre multijet diesel as fitted in European cars comes in two versions: one with 8 valves and developing 120 BHP and the other with 16 valves developing 150 BHP. In India, the same engine block (fitted in Palio and Petra diesels) develops a measely 70 BHP, in the absence of CRDI.
So, 90 BHP from a 1.4 block is possible and I am happy to see Tata getting ambitious with its engines.
Good observation DI and you are spot on. To add, there is also a 16V Ford 1.4 Tdci that puts out 95 odd horses.

I have a feeling TATA showed the 16V version at the show, but the base Indica will get the 8V and stay at 70 bhp and go up in torque.

BTW, are you sure the Petra and the Alfa JTD have the same block??
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Old 9th February 2007, 12:34   #27
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the Fiat multijet is far superior than the tata 1.4 dicor. Its much quiter, quicker and even more fuel efficient . Now this is what tata need apart from improving the quality of its interiors , if they want to improve their cars.
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