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Old 30th March 2006, 10:47   #1
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Default New Mahindra Legend

Mahindra’s "new" Legend is a basic, traditional Jeep with the MM-540/550 body.




The Mahindra MM-540/550 are based on,
the military 1953 Willys MD-M38A1 which was used in the USA-Korean War. The civilian CJ-5 only differed in that it had 12V electrics instead of the military 24V. It also had fixed rather than hinged headlamps.

Wimpy engine
The Mahindra Legend is powered by their 2,523 cc MDI 3200 direct injection turbo diesel mated to a manual gearbox and transfer case.

We understand, the engine struggles to attain 100 km/hr.



The noisy agricultural 2,523 cc MDI 3200 direct injection diesel barely puts out 58 bhp in the Bolero Camper. With turbo-supercharging, my guess is, it might go up to an anaemic 70 bhp. A very far cry from what a real Jeep needs.

It is probably worth recollecting that until 1969, Willys Jeeps had a choice of 2 engines:
  1. The 72 bhp 2.5 litre "Hurricane" F-head 4-cylinder and
  2. the 155 bhp 3.7 litre Buick "Dauntless" V-6 which was available as an option from 1965 to 1969.
After that all US-made Jeeps have had straight-six high torque engines.
Example: Jeep's strong 4-litre 185 bhp I-6.

A case in point: Our Jabalpur Armament Factory built Nissan G-60 "Jonga" had a 4-litre 110 bhp straight-six.

The Legend comes with 16-inch wheels, roll bar, winch and manual steering sans power-assist. The front axle is live, but no free-wheeling hubs.

They haven't got the wipers right
Jeep windshields are designed to fold flat onto the bonnet. You can’t be dismantling the wipers for that!
The earliest Willys had an engine vacuum powered wiper with the mechanism on the folding windshield. The designer managed to route the rubber vacuum hose, so it wouldn’t interfere with folding of the windshield. Even the humble Maruti Gypsy conforms.
But, although the Mahindra Legend’s windshield is hinged to fold, like it should be, the wiper spindles are still on the body rather than on the windshield as a true-Jeep’s wipers should be!
Why is Mahindra so negligent in their design?

No side marker lamps
The 1972 AMC-Jeep had an amber side-marker lamp on the front fender and an identical red side-marker lamp on the rear tub behind the rear-wheel arch. Mahindra had copied the amber light on the fender, but wired it to be a turn-signal indicator, rather than a side marker. Now they've gone and deleted it altogether, returning to the 1955-71 CJ-5 design. As a substitute there's a small city car-like turn signal lamp, behind the front wheel arch.
Needless to say, the copying overlooked the red rear sidemarker.


The MM540 and MM550 inherited the high driving position and near-horizontal steering wheel from the Willys. Gives the driver a macho large truck-like feeling of power.

Built to commemorate sixty years of the company’s existence,
this all show and no go MM550 is named, "Legend".

However isn’t a price of Rs 6 lakh plus, too exhorbitant?

Last edited by Ram : 30th March 2006 at 10:52.
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Old 30th March 2006, 11:18   #2
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frankly its too expensive...
for 6l would not buy a jeep...
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Old 30th March 2006, 11:26   #3
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This is a ripoff- For 6L no power steering!!!!

and that engine-Man- this has to be the WORST engine on any production vehicle in India today. Just drive any DI mahindra and you will know what I mean. The vibrations are enuff to knock your teeth out!

teh least they could have done is give a detuned version of the scorpio crde engine with PS and optional AC (in case some-one wants to opt for it in an open top).

Also, this whole thing about "eshub Mahindra signature series" is taking things a bit too far!

I mean, Even TATA does not do that for Ratan Tata, who by any yardstick is far more of an automotive icon thatn Mr. Mahindra- No offense, but this is a fact.
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Old 30th March 2006, 11:38   #4
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I have seen M. Legend in person looks damn good however when asked the showroom fellow, he said it is not for sale but if by chance it was to go on sale it would be around 5.5l
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Old 30th March 2006, 11:52   #5
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The Legend is an awesome looker. Its basically for hardcore Jeep lovers and they really wont mind spending between 5.5 to 6L to buy one. It comes with everything you want in a Jeep from a winch on the front bumper, 4x4 , chrome alloys and I have heard it has an option for an Isuzu petrol engine

I love it

Last edited by Dippy : 30th March 2006 at 11:54.
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Old 30th March 2006, 11:57   #6
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its a limited edition and hence some 60 or so only will be produced. 6 headlights !
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Old 30th March 2006, 12:17   #7
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Yep Limited Edition 50-60 To be produced and invites will be sent to propective buyers!
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Old 30th March 2006, 13:00   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dippy
The Legend is an awesome looker. Its basically for hardcore Jeep lovers and they really wont mind spending between 5.5 to 6L to buy one.
That's exactly what I mean by all show and no go!
Where is the raw horsepower, expected of a Jeep?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dippy
It comes with everything you want in a Jeep from a winch on the front bumper, 4x4 , chrome alloys and I have heard it has an option for an Isuzu petrol engine
Dippy, please indulge this post of mine! No offense intended, but bolting a Warn or Ramsey winch on the front bumper is the easiest thing in the world, any blacksmith can do.

Does that take a Mahindra to do?

And what's the difference between a Jeep and a Qualis station wagon?
The 4x4!

Unlike Mahindra's agricultural diesel or the Contessa's 1.8 Isuzu, this is a real Jeep engine!



That said, Mahindra's are known to have an unmodified second world war 4x4. No limited-slip-diff, no air-locker, not even shift-on-the-fly.
And the leaf springs at all four corners belongs to Victorian घोडा-गाडी days.

Jeeps are supposed to be water-proofed to the point where you can hose-out the mud with a garden hose. Mahindra's dashboard instruments are not water-proof. And the toolbox under the driver's seat is not waterproof either, nor are the door inner-skins waterproof.

As far as fancy show items are concerned, the kids in Bhopal weld bull-bars and roll-bars out of 3" steel tubing. And alloy wheels and rubber are available for the asking at CST Road, Kurla.

My humble question. What has Mahindra achieved here, for us to feel thrilled about in 2006?

But the new coil-sprung Scorpio! Now that is sincerely commendable if you ask me!
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Old 30th March 2006, 13:59   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram
But the new coil-sprung Scorpio! Now that is sincerely commendable if you ask me!
Dear Ram, a very well written post, if I may say so. However, as far as the new coil-sprung Scorpio is concerned, haven't read anything very complimentary about the ride quality yet from our fellow members who have taken test drives......

Last edited by suman : 30th March 2006 at 14:00.
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Old 30th March 2006, 15:17   #10
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hell what a waste........
i hate this idiotic startegy of giving substandard engines at this price......who would buy one over a scorpio....
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Old 30th March 2006, 16:21   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram
The Mahindra MM-540/550 are based on,
the military 1953 Willys MD-M38A1 which was used in the USA-Korean War.
Are you sure? Wasn't the MM-540 introduced in the mid-eighties? I thought it was the earlier CJ series of Mahindra that was based on the old American Willeys jeeps. The CJ series had the petrol tank under the co-driver's seat, also the co-driver's windshield wiper used to be manually operated. In fact, in the seventies, one often spotted Left Hand Drive Willeys jeeps on the road. Mahindra used to assemble them from kits imported from USA , then started manufacturing them under the CJ series name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ram
The Mahindra Legend is powered by their 2,523 cc MDI 3200 direct injection turbo diesel mated to a manual gearbox and transfer case.
Is this the same International tractor engine which Mahindra introduced around 1976-77? However, that engine only developed 35 BHP, though the torque was quite high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ram
It is probably worth recollecting that until 1969, Willys Jeeps had a choice of 2 engines:
  1. The 72 bhp 2.5 litre "Hurricane" F-head 4-cylinder and
  2. the 155 bhp 3.7 litre Buick "Dauntless" V-6 which was available as an option from 1965 to 1969.
As far as I can remember, the Hurricane engine fitted in Mahindra's jeeps was a 2 litre unit not a 2.5 litre one. They were also offering Perkins P-4 diesel in their Jeep station wagon and Jeep pick-up truck at one stage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ram
However isn’t a price of Rs 6 lakh plus, too exhorbitant?
You are absolutely right. They seem to be copying Tatas who are charging 8 lacs for their 18-year old Tatamobile pickup now christened "Sports Utility Truck".

Quote:
Originally Posted by ram
The noisy agricultural 2,523 cc MDI 3200 direct injection diesel barely puts out 58 bhp in the Bolero Camper. With turbo-supercharging, my guess is, it might go up to an anaemic 70 bhp. A very far cry from what a real Jeep needs.
I would say that it is a good thing that they are fitting an underpowered engine in that rickety jeep. I have some experience of travelling in older generation Mahindra jeeps during the seventies and eighties and in those days each and every nut and bolt used to rattle, whatever the speed. I doubt if things have changed much since then (I am excluding Scorpio of course!) If fitted with a high performance engine, the jeep might disintegrate!
By the way, why do you use the term turbo supercharging? You either turbocharge or you supercharge. Haven't come across an engine incorporating both.
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Old 30th March 2006, 16:29   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by directinjection
Are you sure? Wasn't the MM-540 introduced in the mid-eighties? I thought it was the earlier CJ series of Mahindra that was based on the old American Willeys jeeps.
Yes the 540 was introduced in the 80s but I understand that it was basically a new body on the CJ chassis. The body was loosely based on the Wrangler jeeps of that time with dies imported from South Korea (Ssangyong?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by directinjection
Is this the same International tractor engine which Mahindra introduced around 1976-77? However, that engine only developed 35 BHP, though the torque was quite high.
That engine has been extensively worked on by Mahindra, AVL and Hawthal Whiting in different stages. It now features Direct Injection inplace of the pre-combustion chamber of the original International tractor engine. Being a tractor engine, it developed lots of torque.
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Old 30th March 2006, 17:00   #13
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Quote:
The Mahindra Legend is powered by their 2,523 cc MDI 3200 direct injection turbo diesel mated to a manual gearbox and transfer case.
EEKS! What on earth were they thinking? This thing....just like the Tata Mobiles pseudo-macho model....are an alternative to flushing down 7 - 8 lac rupees.

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Old 30th March 2006, 17:04   #14
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Should have put the old Scorpio engine or the crde engine. If it is based on the 540 then there should be space to fit these engines.
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Old 30th March 2006, 22:33   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by directinjection
Are you sure? Wasn't the MM-540 introduced in the mid-eighties?
Yes the MM-440 and MM-540 were introduced in 1985. They were based on the 1955 to 1971 Willys CJ-5, with the wheelbase stretched to 93.5 inches.

The MM-440 used the one and only petrol engine Mahindra had.
The old 2195 cc "Hurricane" F4-134.

The Hurricane had an "F" head with side intake valves and overhead exhaust valves. It developed 72 bhp @ 4400 rpm and 154 Newton-metre @ 2000 rpm.

The MM-540 used the 2112 cc Peugeot XDP4.90 diesel from the Peugeot 504 cars.
It developed 62 bhp @ 4500 rpm and 122 Newton-metre @ 2000 rpm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by directinjection
I thought it was the earlier CJ series of Mahindra that was based on the old American Willys jeeps.
The CJ series had the petrol tank under the co-driver's seat, also the co-driver's windshield wiper used to be manually operated.
In fact, in the seventies, one often spotted Left Hand Drive Willys jeeps on the road.
Mahindra used to assemble them from kits imported from USA, then started manufacturing them under the CJ series name.
The CJ stands for Civilian Jeep. The term came from Willys-Overland.
They made the Willys CJ-2A from 1945 to 1949, the CJ-3A from 1948 to 1954, and the CJ-3B from 1953-1964.

The Mahindra CJ Jeeps have the following ancestry.
CJ-3B was the unmodified 1953-1964 Willys CJ-3B with its legendary 80-inch wheelbase.
In 1967, Mahindra stretched the CJ-3Bs wheelbase to 101 inches to produce their CJ-4A.
In 1975 an International Harvester MD-2350 diesel transformed the CJ-4A into the Mahindra CJ-500D.

The Mahindra CJ-340 Classic is the 1953-1964 CJ-3B with the Peugeot XDP4.90 diesel and a Korean Kia 4-speed gearbox.

Last edited by Ram : 30th March 2006 at 22:34.
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