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Old 7th April 2006, 00:53   #31
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Originally Posted by ajmat
Dead on arrival, me thinks
Completely agree with you Ajmat!!
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Old 7th April 2006, 13:18   #32
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Originally Posted by amit
I am not sure about the Corolla and Octavia RS's torque figures, maybe someone can do a comparo between hp, torque and weight of these competing cars.
CC/ POWER/ TORQUE/ WEIGHT/ POWER-TO-WEIGHT of;

1) COROLLA : 1794 cc/125 Bhp/157.94 Nm/1185 Kg/105.48 Bhp/Tonne
2) OCTAVIA VRS (T) : 1781 cc/150 Bhp/210.00 Nm/1350 Kg/111.11 Bhp/Tonne
3) CIVIC : 1799 cc/140 Bhp/173.50 Nm/1272 Kg/110.06 Bhp/Tonne

now, the civic seems to be DEFINITELY better than the corolla, but is it really better than the octy? sure, if you boost the civic's engine, it could better a phase-I octy, but that's a different ball game. things get confusing even in the stock trim. according to various sources on the net, the civic does naught to a ton in about 8.14 seconds. assuming the power stakes remain the same, it seems to have the octy hammered, because it's going to be cheaper by at least 2-3 lacs.

heads or tails, corolla loses; the real battle is between the octy and the civic.
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Old 7th April 2006, 15:32   #33
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Originally Posted by veyron1
CC/ POWER/ TORQUE/ WEIGHT/ POWER-TO-WEIGHT of;

1) COROLLA : 1794 cc/125 Bhp/157.94 Nm/1185 Kg/105.48 Bhp/Tonne
2) OCTAVIA VRS (T) : 1781 cc/150 Bhp/210.00 Nm/1350 Kg/111.11 Bhp/Tonne
3) CIVIC : 1799 cc/140 Bhp/173.50 Nm/1272 Kg/110.06 Bhp/Tonne

now, the civic seems to be DEFINITELY better than the corolla, but is it really better than the octy? sure, if you boost the civic's engine, it could better a phase-I octy, but that's a different ball game. things get confusing even in the stock trim. according to various sources on the net, the civic does naught to a ton in about 8.14 seconds. assuming the power stakes remain the same, it seems to have the octy hammered, because it's going to be cheaper by at least 2-3 lacs.

heads or tails, corolla loses; the real battle is between the octy and the civic.
Completely agree with you Veyron based on figures the battle is between the Octi & Civic. Corolla is anyways not a great looker and Civic is definitely going to be the best among the three looks wise.

I think the deciding factor in this forthcoming battle is going to depend on two factors - 1) What price the Civic is launched at & 2) What power the engine has? If they detune it like the NHC then we might have a problem on our hands. And I am sure due to the 2.4 Accord they are not going to price it too high lest they lose sales of that model.
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Old 7th April 2006, 15:55   #34
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Originally Posted by iraghava
2) What power the engine has? If they detune it like the NHC then we might have a problem on our hands.
The iDSI engine of the NHC was not de-tuned, it was simply a new technology which allowed for better combustion of fuel (at the exepense of high-end power). It was a brand new engine compared to the OHC. And I dont think they will bring out the Civic with an iDSI engine (well, they better not).

However, the NHC-VTEC, which has been tuned for 110 bhp in SE-asia, has been de-tuned to 100 bhp taking into account the quality of fuel available here. So, I would expect the Civic engine to be similarily de-tuned to around 130 bhp for the same reasons.
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Old 7th April 2006, 17:50   #35
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Originally Posted by iraghava
2) What power the engine has? If they detune it like the NHC then we might have a problem on our hands.
Your right. Goldie the NHC was detuned for India. The original NHC produces 88bhp in Thailand. I was so sure when the car was lauched that it was 88bhp and didnot mind it that much but when i called Honda dealers they also said 88 but later came to know it was 77. All cars are detuned for India barring a few like GM and Hyundia.

EDIT- OD says the 1.8 Turbo Petrol weighs 1250 kgs Skodas website says what Veyron has put.

Also IMHO the battle is between Civic and Corolla. This segment buyers only few look at raw power and most look at the luxury aspect and thats one reason why corolla is the best seller. Octy lacks Leg room in the rear and luxury apeal which most look for in this segment. Also Civic CTDi is expected. Most Octys sold are TDis wheras few buy its petrol versions.

Last edited by BUSA : 7th April 2006 at 18:08.
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Old 7th April 2006, 19:49   #36
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I don't think the Civic will come with 140hp, maybe it will be detuned to about 125-135bhp. Even the Octavia was detuned from 180 to 150bhp. I feel Honda would be looking more at Corolla then Octavia RS buyers. Most of the buyers in this segment don't want performance as the cars are bought more as status symbols, most of the Civics will be chauffer driven. Honda knows that and will try and position the Civic as a luxury executive car. Skoda on the other hand have always tried to position the RS as a driver's car. Civic buyers will look for luxury, refinement, back seat comfort and FE (It's India!).

Unlike the European's, the Jap's know what the Indian buyer wants and they give them what they want.

About the refinement part, I have had 2 customers who said that the Civic engine was pretty noisy. That's surprising to me as normally the Jap engines are really very smooth and quiet.

Quote:
Also Civic CTDi is expected.
Is that confirmed? Honda has always maintained that it's not going to bring in diesels in India.

Also, does the upcoming Civic have the asian version's headlights that look a bit like the Passats? The North American ones are pretty bland and wouldn't suit the luxury sedan image that the Civic will have in India.

Last edited by amit : 7th April 2006 at 20:01.
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Old 7th April 2006, 20:15   #37
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firstly, even if the battle reigns between the corolla and the civic, i'm pretty sure the civic would win, because it's a fresh face; the futuristic interiors are an added plus. corolla has aged gracefully, but it's time for an upgrade- not just in the styling department, but in mechanicals too, in the form of a li'l peppier engine and revised suspension.

secondly, consider the predicament of a potential enthusiast- we're all aware that vRS's aren't chauffeur driven. IF the civic DOES manage to pip the vRS in the performance stakes, even if the power is down by, say, 10 bhp, which car would the buyer opt for? an expensive-to-buy-maintain-and-modify Czech car, or a mod-happy Japanese car?
i'm not saying that the civic is going to capture the entire 12-lac rupee market. but i'm pretty sure that if the civic comes as a driver-oriented car, 99% of the potential vRS owners would be tempted to go in for the civic.

and IF honda manages to get in it's i-ctdi, then i guess honda would make history as the first non-Indian car maker to command a waiting period of more than a year.....
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Old 7th April 2006, 21:19   #38
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Veyron, I think you should be comparing the Octy Rider 1.8T. Vrs is more of a luxury version.

Even the Corolla's 0-60 is as good as a Octacia 1.8, so that alone will not be a selling factor. But Honda's brand equity and the novelty factor alone means that it will be a sellout for sure. i-CTdi is for hatchback body only.

@Amit, Indian Civic will be same was Canadian Acura CSX as far as exterior.

Last edited by Mpower : 7th April 2006 at 21:20.
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Old 8th April 2006, 00:36   #39
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Check this site. Look at the Drive and the paddle shift. Only if the Civic has a paddle shifter then the competition is blown away. But sadly Honda will badly strip it for out country. 205/55/16 will turn to 195/65/15.

EDIT - Go to paddle shift play and shift the car at 7000RPM. Boy!! Thats FUN.

Last edited by BUSA : 8th April 2006 at 00:38.
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Old 8th April 2006, 11:37   #40
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Ok guys got word last night from a source in Honda that the Civic is going to be here latest by June so all of you looking to get one rejoice!!

Busa & Veyron I agree with you completely about the Civic vs RS vs Corolla debate. The Corolla needs a replacement and soon and from what has been going around in the International press is that after seeing the new Civic the design for the new Corolla was scrapped and the Toyota bosses asked the designers to come up with a radical design to compete with the Civic.

And if they get the diesel Civic here the Octi TDi will be in very very serious trouble. And don't forget the brand image that the Honda Civic in India alongwith the Accord.

@Mpower - The vRS is the sporty version, the L&K is the luxury version. And yes the exterior is the same as the North American Civic.
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Old 8th April 2006, 18:39   #41
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Guys I agree that Honda wud not keep the power of the Civic to 140 Bhp as that wud effect the accord sales a lot. They will keep it from 115 to 120 to 125 max and they know that people in India who are power hungry (not many passenger cars in that range) will pay 11 lacs. i still dont know why people are paying 9.2 lacs in Mumbai for the NHC Vtec 100 bhp when there are cars like Aveo, Fiesta, Accent, Lancer, avialble in the same power range for 1 to 3 lacs cheaper. is it only the brand name or is it something to do with VTEC. me thinks its really a waste of money. why not pay a lac more and get the Corolla than the Vtec or pay 3 lacs less and get a baleno with a beautiful engine and great pickup and great mileage too. Any answers ??
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Old 10th April 2006, 12:09   #42
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Are we getting too enamoured by Civic? We all saw the pics of European Civic and started loving it.


But Asian / US Civic looks fairly average. Do you guys really like the looks?


Yes, Civic is fresh and contemporary and has great interiors. My guess is it is not going to outperform Corolla. I think, next big thing on performance is going to happen via Laura RS!
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Old 10th April 2006, 14:22   #43
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Raghav agree with you that it looks dull infront of the hatchback but still it is a striking looking car especially so if equipped with a nice set of rims. And I am pretty sure it will whip the Corolla in performance stakes since Honda would like to launch the Civic with atleast 130bhp if only for bragging rights.

As for the Laura RS yes it will be fast but at what cost? Standard Laura is 19 lacs approx. so using current difference RS will be 23 lacs . Which in my opinion is about 8 lacs too much.
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Old 10th April 2006, 21:36   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iraghava
As for the Laura RS yes it will be fast but at what cost? Standard Laura is 19 lacs approx. so using current difference RS will be 23 lacs . Which in my opinion is about 8 lacs too much.
I guess Laura RS will be below 20 Lakhs. Price difference between diesel octy and rider petrol is only around 1 - 1.5 lakhs. Laura RS should be around the same price as DSG Laura. What do you think?
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Old 10th April 2006, 21:55   #45
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i saw a civic(de-badged) on the road today on my way back from noida to delhi(kalandi kunj-sarita vihar route)

it looks AMAZING ... much better than in the pics ive seen ... the round backlights make for a stunning rear end
unfortunately didn't have a cam with me.

its got awesome road presence ... def. 'did not' look like a car worth just 11lac ... toyota need to hurry with the new corolla

Last edited by Fiero : 10th April 2006 at 21:59.
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