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Old 11th May 2012, 14:45   #226
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

Hi,

I too got this mail, some actions are going on at FIAT, according to SA in one of the TATA service center within next 2-3 monts we will see FIAT sales & service center in Bengaluru
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Old 11th May 2012, 14:56   #227
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

Hi. Yes I just received this mail from Tata Fiat. Interestingly it has come from corporate communucations tata motors.
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Old 11th May 2012, 14:58   #228
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

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Originally Posted by huntrz View Post
I never had issues with FIAT spares as being raised in one of the posts above in my 6 years of ownership, all the spares were ready available always right from Rack and pinion to coolant container's cap. Once a spare wasn't available and it was ordered and received in 1 week, it was a taillamp assembly.

Once I had to send an email too to the fiat service and not only I got a phone call within 12 hrs both from FIAT and the service advisor but also got the issue resolved.
I have also experienced the excellent response from the service centre(Malik Cars, Hyd) during a breakdown due to TD sensor failure.
Hence I don't believe in so called Fiats lackluster attitude and unavailability of spares. It all depends on the service adviser's attitude in a workshop.
But if one has a fascination with non authorized garages then one may have to worry about the spares for any brand except maybe Maruti.
Hence I am not at all worried about availability of spares. My only concern is that I will have to move from a familiar Tata Workshop to a relatively new Fiat workshop with another dealer.
huntrz the problem mentioned by rahul was first started by the dealer and later by the manufacturer. Like he said that he got a lame reply from Fiat service, so the dealer was no where in picture.

I too have noted that there is an inconsistency in the quality of service across tata dealerships. One is very good and other is very bad and this saga continues across cities.

OTOH no matter what quality of product is offered by MUL (no offense) but at least the process ensures that you get consistent QoS across dealerships in India.

This is an evidence of weak process and system in place by Fiat. I would not be surprised at all if this lame process is designed, implemented and maintained by Tata.

Still I would like to stress on the point to Fiat india if at all they are following this thread, is to leverage the existing customer base, talk to them, and they may provide potential solution to majority of their problems.

Many a times I see that solutions are really simple, but there has to be a system for diagnosis and willingness to solve them.
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Old 11th May 2012, 15:07   #229
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

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Originally Posted by Speed Pujari View Post
Still I would like to stress on the point to Fiat india if at all they are following this thread, is to leverage the existing customer base, talk to them, and they may provide potential solution to majority of their problems.
Hits the nail on the head!

If Fiat wants to succeed in India, they have to get a feeler of existing customers so they can *try* to resolve the intrinsic issues within the system. Rather than running behind future customers!
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Old 11th May 2012, 15:49   #230
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

'Reasonable endeavour' is a slightly questionable term - what is reasonable, and how sincere the endeavour will be is an unknown for sure.

I guess as Fiat owners continue to visit the service centers we will be more privy to how it will pan out on the ground.

The issue of inconsistent service exists with all cars and all manufacturers. The trouble is that there are so few owners, the problems tend to get exaggerated (at a purely statistical level, this is basically a very small sample size) over the good stories.

Purely from my point of view:

1. The cars built in Ranjangaon are not built to the same standards as those in Europe. Neither are the part tolerances as precise, I think. Cars tend to rattle a bit and work loose after a bit.

2. Service process is not documented to a tight standard, but to the Tata standard. Which, knowing their cars, isn't saying much.

3. The aim of the Tata JV was to widen the footprint and reach. In that respect, going back to a Fiat-run venture seems a bit of a backward step, given that is what caused most of the issues in the first place.

4. Most Europeans don't really know how India works - I hope whoever is running the new venture does. I have a few European clients, and it takes a lot out of me to convince them (and I have yet to see measurable success) that India is not exactly the same as Europe. It may be hard to believe this, but it surprises most European brands that we judge products and brands on merit over reputation, and that introducing their new product/brand/service will not cause an automatic flood of new users and buyers.

So in essence what we are saying is that the cars will be put together by the same people (no real change), sold by a set of people who will be culled from existing dealers (maybe it's me, but no real change there either) and serviced by somebody who we don't exactly know yet (which is the only change and it's a bit scary).

We live in interesting times.
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Old 11th May 2012, 16:15   #231
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

Dont quite agree.

This is a huge move by Fiat. The build quality of their vehicles are bad at all. Surely better than the Tata's.

Fiat has probably made the right move finally. It will surely do wonders for them.

Last edited by GTO : 12th May 2012 at 16:27. Reason: Removing broken quote
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Old 11th May 2012, 16:21   #232
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

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Originally Posted by cranky View Post
It may be hard to believe this, but it surprises most European brands that we judge products and brands on merit over reputation, and that introducing their new product/brand/service will not cause an automatic flood of new users and buyers.
Not always true for car buyers in India. Quite a lot of buying decisions are by word of mouth or the designated local/ family expert. This could be the garage wala, the accessory shop owner, or it could be you and me.

I am no expert on cars, but I have had a casting vote in buying decisions for at least 5 cars in the last couple of years for extended family and friends. So a lot of people may consider merit, but get it evaluated from someone or at least use them as a bouncing board for their decisions.

Last edited by selfdrive : 11th May 2012 at 16:23.
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Old 11th May 2012, 16:49   #233
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

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Originally Posted by Rahulkool View Post
just to update this, Well i got a lame reply from tata service today.

"We regret the inconvenience caused to you.

I have been calling to your mobile for past 1 week, but couldn’t reach you.

Please call me in my mobile number (xxxxxxxxxx), so that I can arrange for rectifying your vehicle problems

We assure you our best services"

My no is well and active for past one week. I don't know where they have been calling.

Anyways the best part is when i replied the mail, there were some people from FIAT on CC and it seems they have blocked my email id. I have received mailer daemon for those ids. Its a new low for FIAT service, if you can't reply to a customer just block his email id lol . If this is their attitude towards service, i am 100% sure FIAT India will have to shut shop in India and leave.
Replied this mail and after that again there customer care is dead. Given two reminders in past two days. no reply !!!
They can at least tell me that its going to take xx days, please wait, but no they will ignore you because they have already sold the car . and less said about FIAT management, they are so busy selling 600 cars a month they have to block the customer email ids who are asking for help. Here at least tata is not blocking the mail, i would say.


To those who think part availability is not a problem.
I am complaining to left AC vent for past 3.5 years(i am not kidding, almost every service from 2nd service i have been asking them to change it) and still not response. Looking for 3rd brake lamp from past 6 months. Everytime the SA will tell me that he will call me back in one week time regarding when it will be available.

Now i went to a shop in GP road which had prominent FIAT logos and deals only in FIAT parts. I talked the the shop owner for a while and he told me that he has given order multiple times to FIAT but mostly send only 30-40% of the total order. There is also too much delay in delivering the parts and few parts have no supply for past 2-3 years. Hes planning to shift to some other brand. same story has been told me many times from tata service center, earlier i did not used to believe them but now i think all the parts availability problems are from FIAT only. The management is totally useless and unresponsive to the customer after selling a car.
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Old 11th May 2012, 17:18   #234
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

Quote:
Originally Posted by h@r$h@l View Post
Hello,

Has anyone recd any email from Tata - Fiat about this matter? I recd the attached today.

Attachment 926044
Good to see that they atleast are trying to keep existing customers informed

Quote:
Originally Posted by subbarao View Post
Hi,

I too got this mail, some actions are going on at FIAT, according to SA in one of the TATA service center within next 2-3 monts we will see FIAT sales & service center in Bengaluru
Hope so. The thing to wait and see will be, whether an existing TATA dealer will open a new FIAT dealership or it will be a new one altogether.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cranky View Post
'Reasonable endeavour' is a slightly questionable term - what is reasonable, and how sincere the endeavour will be is an unknown for sure.
I guess by saying "reasonable" they mean "realistic". What attracted me in the content was the highlighted "uninterrupted" word.
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Old 11th May 2012, 17:25   #235
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

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Originally Posted by PCS View Post

Dont quite agree.

This is a huge move by Fiat. The build quality of their vehicles are bad at all. Surely better than the Tata's.
Better than Tata but not by much. FWIW, I drive one myself so it's not an outsider's observation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
Not always true for car buyers in India.
Not sure which part of my post you disagreed with.

To clarify, I was talking about the way Europeans (marketing types, not general public) view India.
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Old 11th May 2012, 17:36   #236
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

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Originally Posted by cranky View Post
Not sure which part of my post you disagreed with.
To clarify, I was talking about the way Europeans (marketing types, not general public) view India.
I disagree with your statement that we in India judge by merit and not by reputation. In fact there are many among us here who buy 'brands' and 'products' solely for aspirational value.

then there are some others who buy products because they are recommended by someone they know. who they think knows more about the product or domain.

Last edited by selfdrive : 11th May 2012 at 17:37.
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Old 11th May 2012, 17:50   #237
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

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Originally Posted by cranky View Post
It may be hard to believe this, but it surprises most European brands that we judge products and brands on merit over reputation
I think we Indians judge a product mostly on reputation, rather than merit. That is how Hero Honda is able to be the top manufacturer for so many years by just doing sticker jobs and ( to a lesser degree ) Maruti continues to be the top brand for cars.
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Old 11th May 2012, 18:07   #238
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

Quote:
Originally Posted by h@r$h@l View Post
Hello,

Has anyone recd any email from Tata - Fiat about this matter? I recd the attached today.
Even I received this mail from Fiat today, happy to note that Fiat is trying keep the existing owners in loop and notifying them of the changes happening
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Old 11th May 2012, 18:46   #239
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

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Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
I disagree with your statement that we in India judge by merit and not by reputation. In fact there are many among us here who buy 'brands' and 'products' solely for aspirational value.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newpunter View Post
I think we Indians judge a product mostly on reputation, rather than merit. That is how Hero Honda is able to be the top manufacturer for so many years by just doing sticker jobs and ( to a lesser degree ) Maruti continues to be the top brand for cars.
Having been around for donkeys' years and doing buisiness in a time when no foreign manufacturer could (or would) want to be in the country is itself merit.

Though I agree that neither of them is a top tier manufacturer - Suzuki is present only in this market in the world with some force - however they have stuck around. And to the Indian consumer, that matters a lot. Maybe not to the newfangled lot, but to 99% of the country a track record is also a badge of merit. I can't disagree with that.

In the same breath, I wouldn't consider these to be aspirational brands, but both are the harbinger of mobility to the masses. At the end of the day, even a Maruti 800 is a Mercedes to the guy who's putting down his money on it, let's not forget that in our ivory towers. And let's also not forget that poor execution ruined all of the pretenders and competitors - remember Sipani?

At least Maruti stuck around, made (practically) bullet-proof, reliable workhorses that were cheap to own and run. I think we all owe them a lot - in spite of the fact I wouldn't be buying one for myself. But to me, that's meritorious.

We digress, the point is that Fiat will not change much by just moving out of Tata - they have to look at the country very differently instead of using European standards to judge ours.
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Old 11th May 2012, 19:21   #240
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

Quote:
Originally Posted by cranky View Post
'Reasonable endeavour' is a slightly questionable term - what is reasonable, and how sincere the endeavour will be is an unknown for sure.

I guess as Fiat owners continue to visit the service centers we will be more privy to how it will pan out on the ground.

The issue of inconsistent service exists with all cars and all manufacturers. The trouble is that there are so few owners, the problems tend to get exaggerated (at a purely statistical level, this is basically a very small sample size) over the good stories.

Purely from my point of view:

1. The cars built in Ranjangaon are not built to the same standards as those in Europe. Neither are the part tolerances as precise, I think. Cars tend to rattle a bit and work loose after a bit.

2. Service process is not documented to a tight standard, but to the Tata standard. Which, knowing their cars, isn't saying much.

3. The aim of the Tata JV was to widen the footprint and reach. In that respect, going back to a Fiat-run venture seems a bit of a backward step, given that is what caused most of the issues in the first place.

4. Most Europeans don't really know how India works - I hope whoever is running the new venture does. I have a few European clients, and it takes a lot out of me to convince them (and I have yet to see measurable success) that India is not exactly the same as Europe. It may be hard to believe this, but it surprises most European brands that we judge products and brands on merit over reputation, and that introducing their new product/brand/service will not cause an automatic flood of new users and buyers.

So in essence what we are saying is that the cars will be put together by the same people (no real change), sold by a set of people who will be culled from existing dealers (maybe it's me, but no real change there either) and serviced by somebody who we don't exactly know yet (which is the only change and it's a bit scary).

We live in interesting times.
1. None of the cars sold here are close to their counterparts in Europe, If I am not wrong FIAT cars are sturdier than suzukis, May be I am wrong but have heard a lot of stories of rattling swifts.

2. That might change now. I dont know how it was pre-Tata but considering they know what their achilles heel is it might be better.

3. The separation is not a planned activity it's out of compulsion where TATA showrooms are trying to sell their own vehicles to people who come to the showroom to see a Fiat. So there's not much choice there.

Ideally for me they should have separated sales and then once they had settled down services could have been taken care of.

4. Rather than merit it is VFM or frugality. Indians are attracted to Maruti-Suzuki because of the mileage factor and the relatively low cost of maintenance.

If you are referring to that as a merit then it is agreeable and suzuki deserves success for reading the market right, their pricing has always been bang on. (Ertiga is the latest example) service availability has no comparison in India.

By Merit if you are talking about safety or ride comfort or driving pleasure then most Indians are pretty ignorant in that matter and go by hear say or it is not a parameter while considering a vehicle.

It can have a lot to do with per-capita income. Where buying a car is a big deal in India for most.

And if Indians dont attach importance to aspirational or as I think 'Social Image' , then the practice of launching a D segment car and then a hatchback would not have been so popular.
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