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Old 5th March 2013, 11:28   #661
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

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Originally Posted by creative420 View Post
So with all these fiat showrooms opening across India...does it mean that the spare part availability of Palios and other older fiats like Sienna/Petras will get a fresh lease of life too? If not, then I think they should have commented on it. There are so many people who have incurred a huge depreciation by going for Palios and Sienna a decade back. Fiat should comment something on that situation. It'll build tremendous credibility for them.
According to a friend of mine, Enrico expressed his inability to take care of older Fiat Cars like the Palio. He said that Fiat would 'help' older Fiat owners to 'migrate' to newer Fiat cars like the Punto and Linea. Not sure how they would help.
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Old 5th March 2013, 12:11   #662
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

I guess this clearly indicates that people who own any of the Palio's have to either upgrade or change very soon, it may become real hard to maintain the palio's in coming years? also does it mean that they wont support/service Palio?

It is surely going to be a big shocker for all the Palio fans, already the resale value is sinking and if this happens i wonder what would be the state?

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Originally Posted by addyhemmige View Post
According to a friend of mine, Enrico expressed his inability to take care of older Fiat Cars like the Palio. He said that Fiat would 'help' older Fiat owners to 'migrate' to newer Fiat cars like the Punto and Linea. Not sure how they would help.

Last edited by lohithrao : 5th March 2013 at 12:14.
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Old 5th March 2013, 12:47   #663
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

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Originally Posted by addyhemmige View Post
According to a friend of mine, Enrico expressed his inability to take care of older Fiat Cars like the Palio. He said that Fiat would 'help' older Fiat owners to 'migrate' to newer Fiat cars like the Punto and Linea. Not sure how they would help.
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Originally Posted by lohithrao View Post
I guess this clearly indicates that people who own any of the Palio's have to either upgrade or change very soon, it may become real hard to maintain the palio's in coming years? also does it mean that they wont support/service Palio?

It is surely going to be a big shocker for all the Palio fans, already the resale value is sinking and if this happens i wonder what would be the state?
Enrico never mentioned that they will not support Palio/Uno owners. He did mention that the network is given priority to cover about 200,000 Palio/UNO/Linea?Punto owners. But given the fact that the productions of the Palio/UNO stopped long back, they will be providing support with the parts that are being made available with the parts currently being manufactured. However, he was non commital about for how long the support would be provided. That is when he mentioned that the existing Palio and Uno owners would be encouraged to move on to the newer generation cars.
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Old 5th March 2013, 13:03   #664
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

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Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
Enrico never mentioned that they will not support Palio/Uno owners. He did mention that the network is given priority to cover about 200,000 Palio/UNO/Linea?Punto owners. But given the fact that the productions of the Palio/UNO stopped long back, they will be providing support with the parts that are being made available with the parts currently being manufactured. However, he was non commital about for how long the support would be provided. That is when he mentioned that the existing Palio and Uno owners would be encouraged to move on to the newer generation cars.
Thanks for clarifying NKP. But isn't there a rule where the manufacturer has to supply spare parts for a certain number of years after the car model has been discontinued?
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Old 5th March 2013, 13:09   #665
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

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Originally Posted by addyhemmige View Post
According to a friend of mine, Enrico expressed his inability to take care of older Fiat Cars like the Palio. He said that Fiat would 'help' older Fiat owners to 'migrate' to newer Fiat cars like the Punto and Linea. Not sure how they would help.
I was that friend

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Originally Posted by lohithrao View Post
I guess this clearly indicates that people who own any of the Palio's have to either upgrade or change very soon, it may become real hard to maintain the palio's in coming years? also does it mean that they wont support/service Palio?

It is surely going to be a big shocker for all the Palio fans, already the resale value is sinking and if this happens i wonder what would be the state?
Service and Spares availability for the Palio has always been poor. It was expected that Fiat parting ways with Tata on Sales and Service, they would be able to provide better treatement to Palios and other older Fiats.

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Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
Enrico never mentioned that they will not support Palio/Uno owners. He did mention that the network is given priority to cover about 200,000 Palio/UNO/Linea?Punto owners. But given the fact that the productions of the Palio/UNO stopped long back, they will be providing support with the parts that are being made available with the parts currently being manufactured. However, he was non commital about for how long the support would be provided. That is when he mentioned that the existing Palio and Uno owners would be encouraged to move on to the newer generation cars.
I too was part of the inauguration. I received an invite from MFW at very last moment. Being a hard core Fiat fan and owning a Palio SDX and an Adventure, my question to him was imminent.

By the way, Palio was available till Q1-Q2 of 2010, last Palio's being sold as late as Q1 of 2011. Its not too long ago, in automotive sense. Also, Palio was launched just 12 years ago which means they have not even gone in for Fitness renewal to RTO.

I was the one who asked Enrico a very clear question. My question was on lines below:
Palio's In India still make a huge chunk of customer base for India. Fiat has left a very bad taste in treatment to Palios in terms of service and spares. Relatively these cars are not too old. Average age being 2-10 year old cars. How do you expect your own customers to buy newer Fiats in future when treated like this. Heart of Fiatians say next car should be Fiat, but mind says not to go for Fiat. What plans do you have to support and service Palios?

Enrico's answer was in the lines of:
Investment in India on Palios were a loss we all know that. The new dealerships would accept Palios to service. We can only "try" our best to provide better service. It is best for those owners to move on to newer Fiats. We can "HELP" customers to move to newer Fiats. And a few other comments I cannot remember fully.

This is the worst possible answer any Fiat customer, especially the ones with Palios and other older Fiats could expect. Its very very clear that they dont care. What was he even thinking? Does he expect us to scrap our cars and buy new Fiats? If one has to sell their Palio, doesnt it mean that the buyer becomes their customer too? Adding salt to wounds this. The worst is probably yet to come!

- When Palio was launched Uno got the step motherly treatment
- When Punto/Linea was launched, same treatment was extended to Palios even though the treatment was already bad. Forget the other models like Adventure, Sienna and all!
- Going by the things, when Fiat launches newer models, its no guess what would happen to Puntos and Lineas

First, the JV with TATA was seen as a boon for Fiat customers. Later, TATA was cursed for various reasons like marketing TATA cars over Fiat cars in showrooms, also blamed TATA for unavailability of spares, especially Palios and poor service and what not. Now, Fiat are by themselves, I can only guess the future.

Fiat is forgetting that most of its sales are happening by repeat customers. With such step motherly treatment, the sales will obviously die down! They should look at the Sales of the past one year, how sad the number look like. I can bet that even with the poor Sales a good chunk of customers are older customers.

FIAT obviously had their plot wrong since over a decade. They continue to do the same blunder over and over again!

If one doesnt value a customer, no business can sustain! I couldnt ask further questions or counter the answers as the mic was taken away from me due to time constraints and passed on to other members.

And after all, they want to just service and support only newer models, I mean just 2 major models with the tiny number of units they are selling?

Please Note: I asked this question on behalf of any Palio/Older Fiat customers. My Palio has not yet reached the age where I need spare parts and have not yet faced any issues till date.

Last edited by funkykar : 5th March 2013 at 13:13.
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Old 5th March 2013, 14:08   #666
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

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Originally Posted by addyhemmige View Post
Thanks for clarifying NKP. But isn't there a rule where the manufacturer has to supply spare parts for a certain number of years after the car model has been discontinued?
Yes, as far as I am aware of a manufucterer is supposed to provide supports with sales and spares atleast for 5 years as per the rule book.

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Originally Posted by funkykar View Post
By the way, Palio was available till Q1-Q2 of 2010, last Palio's being sold as late as Q1 of 2011. Its not too long ago, in automotive sense. Also, Palio was launched just 12 years ago which means they have not even gone in for Fitness renewal to RTO.
Yes, it is still 2013, has the support been taken away? I don't think so.

Quote:
I was the one who asked Enrico a very clear question. My question was on lines below:
Palio's In India still make a huge chunk of customer base for India. Fiat has left a very bad taste in treatment to Palios in terms of service and spares. Relatively these cars are not too old. Average age being 2-10 year old cars. How do you expect your own customers to buy newer Fiats in future when treated like this. Heart of Fiatians say next car should be Fiat, but mind says not to go for Fiat. What plans do you have to support and service Palios?

Enrico's answer was in the lines of:
Investment in India on Palios were a loss we all know that. The new dealerships would accept Palios to service. We can only "try" our best to provide better service. It is best for those owners to move on to newer Fiats. We can "HELP" customers to move to newer Fiats. And a few other comments I cannot remember fully.
This is not the complete answer he gave. I was sitting in the first row when this question was asked. I myself own a Palio too (Dec 2004) model and this question was pretty much relevant to my concerns as well .

He very clearly mentioned that the number of cars of this platform produced is not high number. They are doing their best to procure and provide as much support to the existing owners.

He very clearly mentioned that the owners would be encouraged to move up to the newer generation cars. He nowhere mentioned that the parts wont be available.

This is a fair enough situation. Its far better than not getting the car serviced at all.

Quote:
This is the worst possible answer any Fiat customer, especially the ones with Palios and other older Fiats could expect. Its very very clear that they dont care. What was he even thinking? Does he expect us to scrap our cars and buy new Fiats? If one has to sell their Palio, doesnt it mean that the buyer becomes their customer too? Adding salt to wounds this. The worst is probably yet to come!
I dont perceive, this was the worst possible answer. If they really did not care, they would not have accepted palios/Unos for service. It would have been an easy way out for them, but they have not chosen this path. I would personally disagree on the view that worse is yet to come.

Quote:
- When Palio was launched Uno got the step motherly treatment
- When Punto/Linea was launched, same treatment was extended to Palios even though the treatment was already bad. Forget the other models like Adventure, Sienna and all!
- Going by the things, when Fiat launches newer models, its no guess what would happen to Puntos and Lineas
I personally feel FIAT has a lot more at stake than what we Palio/Uno owners think Fiat has.

Quote:
First, the JV with TATA was seen as a boon for Fiat customers. Later, TATA was cursed for various reasons like marketing TATA cars over Fiat cars in showrooms, also blamed TATA for unavailability of spares, especially Palios and poor service and what not. Now, Fiat are by themselves, I can only guess the future.
Not really. I will with the consent of one of the service center advisor post about actual scenario. Even before that, I myself experienced this poor TATA attitude not once but twice more so after the JV for Sales and Distribution exit annoucement was made.

First instance, I have ordered for the punto active 14 inch rims (set of 5) for my palio and the order was raised immediately in the system. The complete set of 5 rims is yet to arrive. They are shipping it one by one. No prices for guessing where the lack luster attitude is.

Second instance, I raised an order for the illuminated sill plates, the FIAT inventory person responded the very next day by shipping the part to the TATA people. No guesses where the part was held up. It was TATA who was not bothered at all to ship it to the dealership. With multiple follow ups the part was shipped. I had to lose about 10 days due to this (not that I was in a hurry anyways).

May be it is only me who is experiencing this.

Quote:
Fiat is forgetting that most of its sales are happening by repeat customers. With such step motherly treatment, the sales will obviously die down! They should look at the Sales of the past one year, how sad the number look like. I can bet that even with the poor Sales a good chunk of customers are older customers.
Thats a blanket statement to be made. Are there any facts that can substantiate the claim. During my Linea purchase, it was completely different scenario than the repeat purchase. This is after looking into the Blue/Pink forms (the enquiry to booking conversion).

Quote:
FIAT obviously had their plot wrong since over a decade. They continue to do the same blunder over and over again!

If one doesnt value a customer, no business can sustain! I couldnt ask further questions or counter the answers as the mic was taken away from me due to time constraints and passed on to other members.

And after all, they want to just service and support only newer models, I mean just 2 major models with the tiny number of units they are selling?
Thats again contrary to the fact that user feedback was taken to get a few deal breakers out of the way. Ground clearance, AC, CSC, etc etc.

I will repeat again, they are not washing their hands off for the Palio as yet, may be its we Palio/Uno owners expectation of FIAT providing parts for an eternity is causing this concern.

But a dissatisfied Palio/Uno owner is doing more damage to FIAT than an unhappy Linea/Punto Owner. May be FIAT should consider this and start producing parts for Uno/Palio to support atleast for the next 5 years.

Note: This reply not to trigger off an unhealthy discussion. A rather rational approach to the situation is required than doing a postmortem of past time and again.
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Old 5th March 2013, 14:25   #667
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

I never ever said they have taken away support. In the name of supporting these cars, they are actually not supporting them properly and includes poor spares availability. Why does one see so little Palios as compared to Punto/Linea at their service centers. Some things like repeat customers are as perceived by me and I cannot substantiate it with any proof as such. I know of so many friends who have been repeat customers. Apart from this, many new customers who bought Linea/Punto by word of mouth and I too have referred many many friends to buy in the past.

Of course Palio isnt being produced now. Between Palios and Punto/Lineas, a huge chunk of numbers belong to Palios. So why wouldnt they want to support these cars whole heartedly. All Fiats produced are of top notch quality. They are built to last. If customers are happy and want to use it until whenever, Fiat should show some gratitude to their own product and customer. Also, are they forgetting that service also yields profits? If they whole heartedly support older Fiats, they may actually make more money than the number of new cars they are selling. By the way, I dont mean any offense to Punto/Linea, they are my favorites too. On another note, even after all this saga, I will still buy a Fiat if my next car is a hatch/sedan.

Anyways, if one reads between the lines one gets a very clear message what Fiat meant.

If Fiat wants to concentrate just on two models, let it be. I too wish not to debate/argue about it. I dont gain anything from anything here. My concern and query was actually more on behalf for betterment of Fiat in India. Customer is king! It will decide what next for Fiat
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Old 5th March 2013, 15:15   #668
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@ Funkykar - I think you really misunderstood what Enrico Meant. nkrishnap has already clarified what he said and what he meant.

On top of this i would also like to inform you that they are investing more and more for localisation of parts too.

Palio users have never been looked down by FIAT. Fiat knows they are very special to them.

Like you correctly say that service is a profitable business, why would fiat shy away from servicing Palios.

Given that the new exclusive service centres are out they will provide good support to palio users too which the TASS was not doing whole heartedly even with Punto and Linea.

Linea and Punto are global platforms. Apart form these 2 cars there are many models which fiat are planning to bring in. So overall its a brand building exercise and no brand will treat their own customers as unwanted with old models etc.

Also the MJD palio owners are not facing any grave problems. Some GTX and 1.9 and adventure sienna model owners are facing parts scarcity , but Enrico is still trying to help on that matter too.

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Fiat has opened their own service centre in Pune, Dapodi. Many fiat owners were elated with the news and quite rightly so. However, I am hearing so many bad reviews about this centre that it makes me think what is the use of running away from Tata-Fiat JV if the same shoddy service (if not worse) persists. I heard from few punto owners that they were probably better of with Tata-Fiat service centres. This is very unfortunate, especially when the place is so near to the Ranjangaon production facility. Why are you so averse to a better servicing job Fiat?

I was so impressed after driving the Punto sports that, I was thinking of selling my 3 month old Liva diesel and go for Punto. But with the kind of ASS reports, I will have to think ten time before taking the plunge.
Actually Millenium was altogether a fraud organisation. Fiat fell prey to it. They have cheated the bank, Mercedes earlier and also Maruti as i heard. They are already liable to pay crores of INR to various banks and people.

Now with new bavdhan FIAT service centre things will be really good. The team itself is trained and have a PHD in fiat cars.

Note from Support - Posts merged. Please use the multi-quote option to reply to multiple posts, instead of submitting back-to-back posts.

Last edited by n_aditya : 6th March 2013 at 10:45. Reason: Posts merged.
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Old 5th March 2013, 15:31   #669
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@Amit: I would disagree with some points of post # 668, 100%! Sorry to say. Nothing in his answer was promising. They would service Palio and "try" to improve the service for Palios. There was nothing in the answer to sugest Palios are special (Palio users may be special to them since they may bring in newer business, direct or indirect by word of mouth.). Palios defintely are not special, the answer started that Palios in India were a loss. I also wonder if it means Punto/Linea is profitable

Palio MJD users are not facing any grave issues. This means not many are yet in need of parts. With Fiat not too keen in supporting Palios, what about these cars some time down the line?

Last edited by funkykar : 5th March 2013 at 15:32.
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Old 5th March 2013, 15:36   #670
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

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Now with new bavdhan FIAT service centre things will be really good. The team itself is trained and have a PHD in fiat cars.
I did not know about this. Is there a dedicated fiat service centre coming up in bavdhan? Please enlighten.
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Old 5th March 2013, 15:47   #671
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

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Originally Posted by funkykar View Post
@Amit: I would disagree with some points of post # 668, 100%! Sorry to say. Nothing in his answer was promising. They would service Palio and "try" to improve the service for Palios. There was nothing in the answer to sugest Palios are special (Palio users may be special to them since they may bring in newer business, direct or indirect by word of mouth.). Palios defintely are not special, the answer started that Palios in India were a loss. I also wonder if it means Punto/Linea is profitable

Palio MJD users are not facing any grave issues. This means not many are yet in need of parts. With Fiat not too keen in supporting Palios, what about these cars some time down the line?
See like all europeans Enrico is a very straight forward man. He clearly told the truth that Palio was a loss project. Why should we conclude from this that it was not a special project at all. Palio was always a special project for them and so they launched such a beautiful machine with powerful engines.

If he says it was loss, he has the figures obviously. That doesnt mean that they dont want to provide support to Fiat owners. Its wrong if we conclude that.

Well for me i was the first time Fiat customer. after driving my linea 5 people in my society too bought puntos and lineas. Fiat has not advertised well. They all playing their innings only on the basis of a very good product.

What i mean to say about MJD palio is that they are not facing parts problem as there is a good stock of them here and there and also common parts with punto.

Like i said earlier , they have started investing in localisation- so things will be better for all fiat owners down the line.

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I did not know about this. Is there a dedicated fiat service centre coming up in bavdhan? Please enlighten.
Yes, it was supposed to open on 1st April. The work is over, final touch ups remaining.
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Old 5th March 2013, 15:57   #672
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

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I did not know about this. Is there a dedicated fiat service centre coming up in bavdhan? Please enlighten.
Its at the same location where Acumen Motors was.

When you drive from Chandni Chowk towards Balewadi on Pune - Bangalore Highway, there is a cross road (currently where a flyover is proposed and work is in progress) - we have Honda showroom on the left and hyundai on the right.

So if you take the right and go straight (there are two ways so you have to take a 90* right turn)for about 200 mts, on the right you will see the only FIAT A.S.S centre.

Its manged by Pandit Auto, and I agree with Amit that in Pune, pandit is the best place to get your FIAT serviced.

Hope I am clear with respect to the location.

Last edited by scofield : 5th March 2013 at 15:59.
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Old 5th March 2013, 16:04   #673
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

Being a Palio Stile owner, its not only the availability of parts but also the exorbitant price that worries me. Fiat might have a new strategy, but that doesn't seems to help the existing Palio owners.
Unless they can help Palio users to upgrade by offering them a decent price for their cars, I don't think they will be able to retain a good percentage of existing Fiatians.
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Old 5th March 2013, 16:07   #674
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

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Originally Posted by scofield View Post
Its manged by Pandit Auto, and I agree with Amit that in Pune, pandit is the best place to get your FIAT serviced.

Hope I am clear with respect to the location.
Thanks a lot. Its crystal clear .

Very encouraging news indeed. I have a long term wish to own a punto. Though my father-in-law is having a tough time in kolkata to get his palio serviced. But, as I understand from this thread and other threads palio servicing is particularly problematic.
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Old 5th March 2013, 16:09   #675
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

Until speaking to Enrico, I too was always taking Fiat's stance and always gave a benefit of doubt. I was always hopeful that things will change.

All Palio MJD parts available? No way! Dont want to get into nitty gritty details. By the way, there are other Palio models too to worry about, isnt it? Why being specific of MJD? There arent too many common parts between Palio and Punto. Also, if its just engine parts we are talking about, even Maruti can support Fiat cars be supplying parts. I have heard that the MJD engine spares are relatively cheaper when bought from Maruti (cannot remember the source where I got this info). Apart from the engine, there is the rest of the car and its parts.

What Palio parts are Fiat trying to localize? I never heard about this anywhere till date.

I was surprised to hear about Palio project being a loss! Is it not Fiat themselves who have been in loss in several years?

@bruiser: +1 to the exorbitant pricing of some Stile parts.

Last edited by funkykar : 5th March 2013 at 16:10.
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