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Old 5th March 2013, 16:09   #676
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

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Originally Posted by funkykar View Post
@Amit: I would disagree with some points of post # 668, 100%! Sorry to say. Nothing in his answer was promising. They would service Palio and "try" to improve the service for Palios. There was nothing in the answer to sugest Palios are special (Palio users may be special to them since they may bring in newer business, direct or indirect by word of mouth.). Palios defintely are not special, the answer started that Palios in India were a loss. I also wonder if it means Punto/Linea is profitable

Palio MJD users are not facing any grave issues. This means not many are yet in need of parts. With Fiat not too keen in supporting Palios, what about these cars some time down the line?
Enrico telling it that they will "Try to" improve the service of Palio itself is a hint on how the product is getting treated. Otherwise, why would he respond by accepting the fact in a not so forthrightly manner that not all is hunky-dory for Palios (I am not even referring to GTX, Adventures, S10s here).

Even if we accept the fact from certain owners that they never faced issues with Service and Spares for their Palios, wouldn't this question and the manner in which it was responded by FIAT representatives raise an alarm bell on the future prospects?

I see it a valid point while stressing on the fact that the Palio MJD is a not an "OLD" model that it is resulting in such distressing thoughts and opinions in terms of Parts availability and servicing.

The recent generation FIATs have remained reliable to say the least. With this, all that an owner needs is good service and easily available parts. If these 2 essential elements which make or break the Customer experience are ignored (even in near future), It is more likely that the speculations would come true.

Palios may have sold in huge numbers (FIAT India perspective) but one still cannot "easily" manage to get basic parts from the open market - Headlamp clusters, Tail Lamp console, Switch Stalks, Mirrors etc. With some effort and a bit of struggle you may succeed though! This has been experienced by myself while trying to help Karthik (funkykar) with numerous DIYs over the recent past. Localization of parts would help FIAT Immensely as most of us would then procure parts from the open market and stay happy but that seems like a distant dream. Look what Ford has done today and its quite successful at that and gone are those days where one would say "Maintenance of Ford is not cheap".

What I have always liked by Maruti is the fact that you would never be getting a negative answer when it comes to servicing even a 15 year old car. If the ASC doesn't have parts to replace, they get it from MGP shops and if they don't have, the ASC orders it and it gets shipped from MSIL.

Like it is already mentioned, it were the Palios and UNOs due to which FIAT was able to make whatever name in India when it arrived. It was due to the sturdy and tank-like build quality coupled with excellent driving dynamics that FIAT cars were always seen as drivers' cars. The same enthusiastic drivers would then recommend/advise prospective buyers to settle for a FIAT car. (Isn't that the case with all the brands when it comes to being happy and hence spreading it to the world??).

IMHO, FIAT India should not just "Try" but ensure Palios or the cars which they call liability as they suffered losses are treated at par with whatever new models they release in future.
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Old 5th March 2013, 16:24   #677
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

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Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
Like it is already mentioned, it were the Palios and UNOs due to which FIAT was able to make whatever name in India when it arrived. It was due to the sturdy and tank-like build quality coupled with excellent driving dynamics that FIAT cars were always seen as drivers' cars. The same enthusiastic drivers would then recommend/advise prospective buyers to settle for a FIAT car. (Isn't that the case with all the brands when it comes to being happy and hence spreading it to the world??).

IMHO, FIAT India should not just "Try" but ensure Palios or the cars which they call liability as they suffered losses are treated at par with whatever new models they release in future.
I agree Parag! The very people who supported Fiat by becoming customers of Palios and Unos survived Fiat in India. Now very diplomatically they are shutting the door! I wonder if Fiat even understands the passion that owners have towards their Fiat

May be very soon, Palios would be non runners and become collectibles. One may also volunteer to display it in future showroom inagurations
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Old 5th March 2013, 16:37   #678
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

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Originally Posted by bruiser View Post
Being a Palio Stile owner, its not only the availability of parts but also the exorbitant price that worries me. Fiat might have a new strategy, but that doesn't seems to help the existing Palio owners.
Unless they can help Palio users to upgrade by offering them a decent price for their cars, I don't think they will be able to retain a good percentage of existing Fiatians.
+100. Keep out the availability of parts, the price of parts of Palio are quite high. Another issue is that the price keeps getting revised upwards too often.

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Originally Posted by funkykar View Post
Until speaking to Enrico, I too was always taking Fiat's stance and always gave a benefit of doubt. I was always hopeful that things will change.
No offense mate, but really makes me wonder how did you arrive at the conclusion that the things are not going to change?

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All Palio MJD parts available? No way! Dont want to get into nitty gritty details. By the way, there are other Palio models too to worry about, isnt it? Why being specific of MJD? There arent too many common parts between Palio and Punto. Also, if its just engine parts we are talking about, even Maruti can support Fiat cars be supplying parts. I have heard that the MJD engine spares are relatively cheaper when bought from Maruti (cannot remember the source where I got this info). Apart from the engine, there is the rest of the car and its parts.
I am not too sure of how many parts that can be picked up from MGP bin to use in Linea/Punto Engines. Regarding the pricing, I have no data to support the claim nor reject the claim.

To get awareness, what Stile parts are not available? I am asking because, I want change the pre NV Palio looks to the Stile looks atleast for the front (headlights, bonnet, bumper, etc).

Its only the MJD versions of Palio Stile that was available till 2010. The previous versions such as NV and pre NV versions were stopped long back. Theoritically speaking (from the 5 year thumb rule), there is no obligation to support the pre stile versions. If we stick to the 5 year thumb rule, aren't we expecting too much from FIAT.

Quote:
What Palio parts are Fiat trying to localize? I never heard about this anywhere till date.
I cant recall as to when Enrico mentioned about localization of parts for Palio. What he and Chrysler group guy Mr. Nagesh were mentioning was localization of parts for the future models to keep the pricing in check and the availability issues at check.

Quote:
I was surprised to hear about Palio project being a loss! Is it not Fiat themselves who have been in loss in several years?
I wasn't surprised to hear Palio project was a loss. Excess capacity, falling sales all lead to only one way - LOSS.

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Originally Posted by paragsachania View Post
Enrico telling it that they will "Try to" improve the service of Palio itself is a hint on how the product is getting treated. Otherwise, why would he respond by accepting the fact in a not so forthrightly manner that not all is hunky-dory for Palios (I am not even referring to GTX, Adventures, S10s here).
Atleast the person had the guts to accept there was an issue and they are trying to correct it. Whats wrong in it and what wrong impressions is it giving.

Quote:
Even if we accept the fact from certain owners that they never faced issues with Service and Spares for their Palios, wouldn't this question and the manner in which it was responded by FIAT representatives raise an alarm bell on the future prospects?
Would repeat same thing as above, if they are trying to fix it, whats wrong with it?

Quote:
The recent generation FIATs have remained reliable to say the least. With this, all that an owner needs is good service and easily available parts. If these 2 essential elements which make or break the Customer experience are ignored (even in near future), It is more likely that the speculations would come true.
Would agree on this, for now the speculation that is made will come true, if the availability of parts and good service is not made available.

Quote:
Palios may have sold in huge numbers (FIAT India perspective) but one still cannot "easily" manage to get basic parts from the open market - Headlamp clusters, Tail Lamp console, Switch Stalks, Mirrors etc. With some effort and a bit of struggle you may succeed though! This has been experienced by myself while trying to help Karthik (funkykar) with numerous DIYs over the recent past. Localization of parts would help FIAT Immensely as most of us would then procure parts from the open market and stay happy but that seems like a distant dream. Look what Ford has done today and its quite successful at that and gone are those days where one would say "Maintenance of Ford is not cheap".
Would like to hear from Ford Ikon owners regarding the availability of spares, quality of service and the cost of parts.

Quote:
What I have always liked by Maruti is the fact that you would never be getting a negative answer when it comes to servicing even a 15 year old car. If the ASC doesn't have parts to replace, they get it from MGP shops and if they don't have, the ASC orders it and it gets shipped from MSIL.
This is must be true for MSIL and this shows why they rake in such numbers for the cars they produce.

Quote:
Like it is already mentioned, it were the Palios and UNOs due to which FIAT was able to make whatever name in India when it arrived. It was due to the sturdy and tank-like build quality coupled with excellent driving dynamics that FIAT cars were always seen as drivers' cars. The same enthusiastic drivers would then recommend/advise prospective buyers to settle for a FIAT car. (Isn't that the case with all the brands when it comes to being happy and hence spreading it to the world??).
It was the Palio and Uno again for the current state of affairs for FIAT. They brought the name and took it away with the same velocity.

Quote:
IMHO, FIAT India should not just "Try" but ensure Palios or the cars which they call liability as they suffered losses are treated at par with whatever new models they release in future.
Again, its the speculation at full swing here. Its like mentioning that FIAT is only doing media circus by repeatedly mentioning that they are trying to provide good service for Palio/UNO. They will do more harm to the FIAT's image than good, if that is the scenario.
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Old 5th March 2013, 16:46   #679
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

I cannot understand why there is such a big hullabaloo over that Q&A session comment. Enrico might have made sense from a business perspective when he said they will slowly move on and concentrate on newer and current generation Fiats. What is wrong with this? Every car has a lifecycle and as other products succeed it in the market, it is only natural that the older model slowly starts fading away from the company's focus as it gradually retires from the scene. How different is this scene in the Palio v/s Punto/Linea discussion? Or how different has it been, say, in the Ford Ikon v/s Figo/Fiesta scenario? Or Octavia v/s Laura / Rapid? Obviously the later models will be given more focus as time progresses.

By the way, where in the press conference did Enrico mention that spares will not be available or Palios will not be entertained any longer? He said they will "try" to provide better servicing. I don't find anything flawed with that statement either. 'Trying to provide better customer service' was the very reason they are splitting from Tata, and he probably repeated that in the context of your question. What should he have instead said in your opinion?

Instead of trying to draw conclusions from specific words/interpretations of Enrico's speech and crossing bridges before we come to them, I suggest we wait for a while and see how their efforts at providing better service come out. Until then, this thread is just going off-topic about future service quality for Palios, something which has not even happened yet, so I am staying out.
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Old 5th March 2013, 16:54   #680
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

The suggestion that they cannot support Palios like Punto/Linea is good enough for me to paint the picture of what comes ahead from Fiat. Again, I am sure your perception will not be the same

Palio Stile had a 1.6 as well as 1.1 as well my friend. It wasnt just MJD in Stile. If you really want to know what all parts are not available readily, give me some time I will give it to you. Good luck in making your NV look like a Stile. I can hope that you get the parts, if you do get at reasonable prices.

If Fiat thinks there is no obligation to support older Palios, I would have only one thing to ask them "Got Heart"

If Palio was a loss, whats Punto/Linea mean. I wish I could get the year on year sales of Palio Vs Punto/Linea just to better understand.

Last edited by funkykar : 5th March 2013 at 16:56.
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Old 5th March 2013, 17:18   #681
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

If what Mr. Enrico said is true it would be a disaster for the fiat palio owners and by extending the same logic the punto owners like me would be left in lurch too as and when newer models are launched.This is no way of conducting business wherein the resolve to serve the customers better is prime force and which draws the customers towards newer business .Its really galling that this attitude informs the higher echelons of the Fiat organisational chart right upto the present CEO.
I was really happy that new management along with newer zeal in opening dedicated dealership would wash away our woes regarding service and spares but this events simply thows cold water on our schemes to own and repeat buying by us .I hope or rather wish that somebody communicates our deep anguish to the Italian car makers regarding this sordid state of affairs.
regards
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Old 5th March 2013, 17:32   #682
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

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Originally Posted by funkykar View Post
Palio Stile had a 1.6 as well as 1.1 as well my friend. It wasnt just MJD in Stile. If you really want to know what all parts are not available readily, give me some time I will give it to you. Good luck in making your NV look like a Stile. I can hope that you get the parts, if you do get at reasonable prices.
I am very much aware that the Palio Stile had 1.1 as well as 1.6. I did not deny that. Yes, I would definitely would like to know what parts FIAT is not able to source at the Pune Parts Stock yard for the Palios.

And by the way, will need your support in getting my Palio back to shape.

Quote:
If Fiat thinks there is no obligation to support older Palios, I would have only one thing to ask them "Got Heart"
They would probably have that Heart.

Quote:
If Palio was a loss, whats Punto/Linea mean. I wish I could get the year on year sales of Palio Vs Punto/Linea just to better understand.
You tend to completely forget the fact that the current Linea/Punto production is a joint venture with TATA and its not only the Punto/Linea being manufuctured there, so the losses are more bearable than having a complete factory idle without any work for the shop floor employees.

Anyways to each to his own. Any statement can be misinterpreted in any number of ways.

I am out of this discussion.
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Old 5th March 2013, 17:57   #683
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Now that exclusive dealerships have started becoming reality, if each of the Palio owners start posting their experience at these service centers, we would really know where things stand.

Plus, the overall attitude and resolve (to procure parts) of the people handling the dealership also goes a long way in giving us a better experience.

Even though not comparable to great treatment my father's zen and i10 gets at the respective service centers, my experience at the tata-fiat centre had not been that bad, though one definitely expects more.

So may we should wait, watch, experience and report instead of reading too much into Enrico's extempore answer. Let's hope he meant whatever he said in the best of ways.
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Old 5th March 2013, 18:27   #684
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Exclusive service centers and not elusive service centers coupled with the launch of the Punto 1.4 Tjet Abarth is the only way that FIAT can survive in India. I had a GTX before I got the Cruze and can say with conviction that the GTX beats the Cruze in every department except for acceleration, braking and boot space. For a car that costs 1/3rd of the Cruze the costlier car is beaten hollow. They need to launch an ultra efficient low priced diesel and an ultra powerful equal priced petrol for mango people to get interested once again in the magic of FIAT. For torque nuts the 1.6MJD should do the trick. I have my blank cheque ready for the Tjet Punto.

Last edited by drpullockaran : 5th March 2013 at 18:32.
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Old 5th March 2013, 18:28   #685
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

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Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
And by the way, will need your support in getting my Palio back to shape.
I am fighting my own battles with my SDX! I dont know how I can help. I am in a process of dis-engaging myself from visiting ASS. Lets see. Most of my Palio friends have stopped visiting ASS since very long because of not getting quality service coupled with lack of spares.

My SDX has a couple of outstanding issues since 15 long months. ASS is not competent enough to resolve it after leaving it there several times specifically for this issue + leaving for regular service 3 times in the same span.

2 simple issues they are unable to resolve:
1) Engine vibration at idle
2) Slow movement of one of the rear glasses

Do these issues qualify as rocket science? I hope so because none of the different ASS I visited could resolve. I had escalated with several higher officials within ASS, no good. I had escalated to several of top Fiat officials on this, after a while they said they will monitor the repair when I left the car at ASS for resolution. What they did? Just monitor, no resolution. When I further escalated higher up, they decided to send a person from factory just to diagnose and arrive at a resolution. That person came, checked and suggested ASS to do the same steps ASS had earlier tried again. Issue not resolved. Later, Fiat officials smartly choose not to reply to me any more

I gave up. Now trying to find a reliable mechanic outside ASS.

And just on my car:
-Door light switch was bad in first month. They more than a month to get the part
-Speedo was to be replaced under warranty. Again, took a month

On a friend's car who took delivery with mine:
- Front grill some component is lost. Part not available. He is trying since long.

Sorry for going Off Topic!

I am compiling a list of other spares issue that my Palio friends faced, will give it to u in few days.

Last edited by funkykar : 5th March 2013 at 18:32.
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Old 5th March 2013, 19:13   #686
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

During my recent visit to KHT motors, the GM said that since the new redistribution channel is in transition, there may be some delay in parts availability (he need not say that LOL) . But to my utter surprise he took orders for my AC vents for my 2003 ELX and my cousin's 1.6 stile.
He said he will get the part soon. It is been 3 days and m waiting for the call. But somehow I am sold by his confidence. I mean getting AC vents for a 9 years old Fiat is nothing but a dream.
Last year it was a big NO from the same GM when I asked for the same thing.

During the third free service of my linea, the struts was to be replaced under extended warranty. They had the parts but the claim process took them 1 week. For that long my car was lying at service station. So it was not a part availability issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by funkykar View Post
I am fighting my own battles with my SDX! I dont know how I can help. I am in a process of dis-engaging myself from visiting ASS. Lets see. Most of my Palio friends have stopped visiting ASS since very long because of not getting quality service coupled with lack of spares.
On a friend's car who took delivery with mine:
- Front grill some component is lost. Part not available. He is trying since long.
I think u can trying giving a shot to KHT whitefield, see if that helps.

Last edited by Speed Pujari : 5th March 2013 at 19:17.
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Old 5th March 2013, 19:29   #687
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

People who have heard that maruti parts can be fitted onto punto or linea is very much true.
But the other fact of this is that they are not of same quality and not by same vendor.

For example - the oil filter on manza, or maruti ddis costs hardly 140rs, but on Fiat it costs around 244 rs. Fiat imports the oil filter from Italy, whereas Maruti and Tata use local make.

Some also cribble that fiat has purposely done a marketting gimmik and has kept oil change interval as 15000kms where as maruti is smart keeping it 5000kms

The fact is Fiat MJD engines are fitted with a oil cooler and use semi synthetic good quality Petronas Selenia oils.
Maruti has conviniently done a cost reduction and has opted to omit the oil cooler- which helps oil and engine to perform better. Also they used to fill mineral oil until lately i think.

So before comparing the prices, kindly dive deeper into the technology and vendor who supply the parts.

Also even though Ford has localised the parts, many owners are complaning about the quality now.

Fiat has to carefully control the quality of parts when localised.

Last edited by amit_mechengg : 5th March 2013 at 19:34.
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Old 5th March 2013, 19:35   #688
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

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If Palio was a loss, whats Punto/Linea mean. I wish I could get the year on year sales of Palio Vs Punto/Linea just to better understand.
Palio was a loss because neither this car sold well, nor did Fiat realise the potential of this platform. Had they spawned new vehicles with different looks based on the same platform, it would have been a different story.

Now Fiat has realised, much after most of the competition did, that the Punto platform can be used to make various other body styles as well. Then Fiat is also exporting the cars to other RHD markets. So, even if Linea ends as a flop (selling double digits every month), the assembly line will never run out of business.

I hope that Fiat is not just concentrating on opening new sales and service centres. I hope that they have some products ready to be launched soon. I cannot imagine all these new sales offices showing only 2 cars for the rest of the year!
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Old 5th March 2013, 19:35   #689
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Originally Posted by Speed Pujari View Post
I mean getting AC vents for a 9 years old Fiat is nothing but a dream.


I think u can trying giving a shot to KHT whitefield, see if that helps.
Dream, I agree!

Already tried KHT. After giving all details and checkign service history, they only serviced my car. Since I upgraded to semi synth oil as adviced by the SA there, the vibration issue got temporarily masked and was back in full swing even before I reached home. There was no action to resolve the issue anyways.

Several times at Prerana done, KHT and Concorde too.

Some of the troubleshooting done by ASS to diagnose issue, if shared is super stuff!

@Rohanjf: I always thought the poor ASS was main reason for loss. You have any numbers of how many units they are exporting from India, just curious to know if they are doing well on that front.

Last edited by funkykar : 5th March 2013 at 19:41.
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Old 5th March 2013, 21:20   #690
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Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

Some interesting discussion going on here

As a FIAT Palio owner here is my perspective.

We all love FIAT because they make some really good Driver's Cars. These Cars always put a smile on their owners faces every time they drive it.

Now we all want FIAT to succeed in India since we love their Cars. Now if we were to analyse why such good Cars like Linea & Punto is not selling in good numbers we need to go back a bit to History.

Why is the Indian Car buying public despising FIAT and staying away from it?Majority of the Car buying public does not even consider FIATs in their shortlist of Cars. What are the reasons for it? Features - No, Build Quality - No, Interiors - Maybe, Price - No, Styling - No, then what? Perception about FE, A.S.S & Spares - YES. Obviously it all boils down to A.S.S and the public's perception about the same and less said about the 'Marketing' the better!

Now how did the perception come about and how does FIAT go about negating that? It is a difficult situation to be in but honestly if they need to succeed in India they need the passionate FIAT owners & fans on their side and it would be a Himalayan blunder for them to leave the Palio & older generation FIAT owners in the cold.

I have personally made few people opt for FIAT and that is something which many of us have done. Everyone did that b'ços we hate to see the brand failing and we did our best by selling the Car to our friends, relatives & acquaintances more than any FIAT salesman could do.

I agree that no company can provide parts for certain models for eternity but considering how badly FIAT has treated it's customers in the past as a Goodwill gesture they should be going that extra mile to procure parts and stock it at their newly opening centers at least for the Cars which are still in production in other countries like the Palio. If they can't stock parts they should probably tie up with some online vendors to sell genuine parts online and the FASS should show the courtesy of replacing it for the customer.

I have been fortunate enough to have got good service at Prerana for 2+ years now. The service interval for my MJD is 7500kms and since I have been clocking kms at a fair clip (68380 kms as of today) the Palio is a regular at the TASS. In the last service the Wiper motor had to be changed under warranty and the part was not in stock and I hope to get it changed in the next service which is due in 2 weeks time. And the less said the better about Stile Spare parts prices! 3.5k for a ORVM, almost 9k for a front bumper and the headlight assy costs a bomb. Maybe I'm born to pay for expensive spares (Last Car being an Ikon 1.6)

Let us be objective in analyzing FIAT. If they are doing something wrong let us point that out and when they do something right let us wholeheartedly appreciate it. I'm a die hard FIAT fan but that does not stop me from criticizing the company

Mr.Atanasio has a tough job at hand and I wish him all success and hope that he is the Messiah for FIAT in India. FIAT is a company which has taken feedback and has worked on it and I hope that it is not too late before FIAT realizes the need to keep its passionate existing customers & die hard fans happy.

And my next Car will surely be a Linea. For me any given day the superb Handling, amazing High speed stability, balanced Ride, precise Steering, Classy styling & the tank like build will win over an indifferent A.S.S.
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