Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th March 2013, 16:41   #766
Distinguished - BHPian
 
nkrishnap's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,494
Thanked: 4,109 Times
Default Re: Fiat Waves

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
This ofcourse is a digress, yet would like to point out that Fiat really didn't market their 5star safety performance as well i20 did and Marketing does remain a problem area. The Advts, were nice but they did not get the buyer to the stores in sufficent numbers and help them close sufficent number of deals.
I believe the new advertisements can be aired only from April 1st onwards when the official sales and distribution agreement cease to exist. I guess, FIAT has also roped in O&M for their advertisements.

Now with respect to ads, will need to wait and see what will be aired in the TV media and what print ads come up.

Reference for O&M

Last edited by nkrishnap : 12th March 2013 at 16:43.
nkrishnap is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2013, 16:42   #767
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 633
Thanked: 624 Times
Default Re: Fiat Waves

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
There is statistical evidence in this area. Both i(20) and Grande Punto are considered comparable cars by NCAP since they are within 150 kgs of each other. It is normally obvious that heavier cars woudl have and edge over lighter ones in a one on one impact between the two.
i20 has a 5 Star rating for Post 2009 overall. But has expecially high rating for children and does well on pedestrian and safety equipment parameters as well. Grande Punto too has a 5 star rating but that is a pre 2009 rating and the parameters got tougher later but were also different. Yet it is obvious from the NCAP site that for other pameters like child safety (not the Adult 5 star) they have a lower rating. Not to say that Punto needs to shy away from the results - they are good but the world has moved on and the newer punto with better safety standards is required to take on the i20 on these parameters.

Writting the above in just as to clarify that older heavier cars can't really taken on the newer lighter one directly, infact older Merc, BMW & Audi don't really perform that well on the newer Safety test and cars costing much lesser today do better. - I actually love both cars and the next gen Punto / Abarth (if priced well) could well be in my stable.

This ofcourse is a digress, yet would like to point out that Fiat really didn't market their 5star safety performance as well i20 did and Marketing does remain a problem area. The Advts, were nice but they did not get the buyer to the stores in sufficent numbers and help them close sufficent number of deals.
Source-internet

"i20 braking distance from 100 to 0 KMPH is 65 s and that of Punto is 48 s. You will stop 17m earlier in Punto."

In most cases the Punto will avert an accident, the i20 might still protect you but with all airbags open and with possibilities of injuries to any extent, to death even.

Which one would you prefer? i20 or Punto?

P.S: I'm extremely sorry for picking on you, but I just want a lot of people to know what are all the most important things to consider before buying a car. Hope you understand. Thanks

Last edited by CliffHanger : 12th March 2013 at 16:44.
CliffHanger is offline   (7) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2013, 17:03   #768
ACM
Distinguished - BHPian
 
ACM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 4,152
Thanked: 2,457 Times
Default Re: Fiat Waves

Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffHanger View Post
Source-internet

"i20 braking distance from 100 to 0 KMPH is 65 s and that of Punto is 48 s. You will stop 17m earlier in Punto."

In most cases the Punto will avert an accident, the i20 might still protect you but with all airbags open and with possibilities of injuries to any extent, to death even.

Which one would you prefer? i20 or Punto?

P.S: I'm extremely sorry for picking on you, but I just want a lot of people to know what are all the most important things to consider before buying a car. Hope you understand. Thanks
Hey, this is perfectly fine. - I was aware of this and even remembered it prior to posting the previous post, and that is one of the reasons that i20 has not been in my garage, infact in the case of the i20 the braking distance of the three engine varients they have here vary quite a bit. Something surely is quite wrong there. Smartcat had done a nice comparo of all the hatch and all the sedans and had noticed this at that time.

My specific example from earlier was just about the Heavier car logic. and in no way was I saying the i20 is necessarly better than the Punto. There are other factors to consider. Infact I may add that 5 star ratings in case of both cars are for a particular varient (normally the top one) and in case of i20 it is a six airbag varient. How many buyers in India buy cars with even 2 airbags even if the option is available. That said modern technology does enable a very light car to be very safe due to the way in which they bend and weld the metal etc, and of course the active and passive safety elements.

Of course Hyundai must have been doing somethings correct globally to have moved into the 4th Largest car maker slot (globally) behind GM, VW & Toyota and ahead of brands like Ford, Nissan, Honda, Renault and Fiat. People are buying a korean brand for it's realiability, looks and also safety. The Braking distance too is considered in safety tests but have not really been able to figure out why the i20 in India (I think one particular varient) is so poor.

This could be seen to be a major deviation from the topic so lets get back purely to fiat dealership before we get pulled up.

Last edited by ACM : 12th March 2013 at 17:04.
ACM is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2013, 17:20   #769
BHPian
 
SUPERSPORT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cochin
Posts: 75
Thanked: 210 Times
Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

I am surprised to see some one saying Linea was overpriced or positioned higher than what it should be. I still think its one of the most value for money cars that one can get in the market. For example, I was shocked to see the ex showroom price of top end petrol etios at 7.3 lakhs.(No offence meant to etios owners). That's the same price that I paid for my Linea petrol emotion pack in 2009. And I cannot imagine comparing a Linea to an etios. Similarly the Honda city was dearer by at least 1.5 lakhs then. While the Linea offered a lot more value at a far more lower price. And I still think even after various price increases, the final cost is almost the same as when it as launched due to the discounts. Whenever I take my other ride out, I always wonder how could fiat give me the Linea at such a low price. Fiat have made mistakes in the past. Fortunately I never had any bad experience with them neither with the Palio or the Linea. I sincerely wish them to be successfull in the Indian market. They make brilliant cars. May not be very powerfull (the present line up) but excellent in many other departments. Only when I started owning another brand I could understand how good these cars are. The exclusive dealerships was what was required at the base level. The complaints should be rectified at the dealership level itself instead of involving the higher officials. Some good marketing explaining fiat and its subsidiaries will slowly develop a good brand image. Growth will be slow, but with good service and brand building exercise they should taste success.
SUPERSPORT is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th March 2013, 22:08   #770
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kottayam
Posts: 1,081
Thanked: 153 Times
Default Re: Fiat Waves

Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffHanger View Post
Where exactly Fiat went wrong is tying up with Tata for A.S.S. A company that is so wooful in service, being trusted upon by Fiat which already suffered in After Sales, is the silliest mistake.

Yes, Fiat management is shaky, but all the actions from their side shows that they are learning from their mistakes. Reading all the recent posts on Fiat service is only irritating and ends up as a Futile read. Fiat is just starting up service centers, I don't know how people jump into conclusions that it is going to be bad or good.
People still remember the name Fiat and see few on road because of Tata. At a time, when the parent FIAT, do not want to spend any money on India operations, Tata helped them form the JV. Irrespective of what people perceive, insiders know the fact that Tata actually saved FIAT from oblivion in India.
Now coming to the new Dealerships, with the minuscule sales, no way the current FIAT only service centers and dealerships can survive. As a business, why would some one invest money knowing they wont be able to recover money? What they should have done was, create a FIAT subsidiary to own the dealerships until the sales volume pickup. Also FIAT should have taken all steps to increase the sales volume first, before moving out from Tatas. Now i am worried, some of these new dealerships will wind down shortly or switch to some other brand once opportunity arise. Yes it is a chicken and Egg scenario, but things should have planned better, that is where the current FIAT management lacks vision.
teamveevee is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2013, 09:00   #771
Senior - BHPian
 
rameshnanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,231
Thanked: 813 Times
Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
There is statistical evidence in this area. Both i(20) and Grande Punto are considered comparable cars by NCAP since they are within 150 kgs of each other. It is normally obvious that heavier cars woudl have and edge over lighter ones in a one on one impact between the two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACM View Post
That said modern technology does enable a very light car to be very safe due to the way in which they bend and weld the metal etc, and of course the active and passive safety elements.
I will have to intervene here after being a listener in this thread for a while.

Going by your logic of heavier car having edge over lighter ones, i20 should have brought down Punto/Linea hands down. i20 CRDI is indeed heavier than Punto and Linea. Everything is perceived with Fiat by the non owners.

Kerb weight of the cars in debate for reference -
i20 CRDI - 1222 kgs.
Linea MJD - 1210 kgs.
Punto 90 - 1144 kgs.
Punto 75 - 1130 kgs.

You are spot on with your later post in saying that modern cars should be lighter and be safer. And that is how I really see Punto's and Linea's.
rameshnanda is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2013, 09:16   #772
BHPian
 
asdon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 950
Thanked: 293 Times
Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

But talking about the new dealership, independent of Tata, I don't really see a change coming in, the existing Tata dealers only in most of the cases, taken up the new dealership with old staffs, and a major shift in atitude will be a surprise, I felt the same old frustation while I gave my car for servicing at Prerana Motors, and I know the newly formed Vecto is just a shell company of Prerana and the guys handling Fiat car there will be shifted to Vecto, I fear for the future...
asdon is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2013, 09:31   #773
Senior - BHPian
 
rameshnanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,231
Thanked: 813 Times
Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdon View Post
But talking about the new dealership, independent of Tata, I don't really see a change coming in, the existing Tata dealers only in most of the cases, taken up the new dealership with old staffs, and a major shift in atitude will be a surprise, I felt the same old frustation while I gave my car for servicing at Prerana Motors, and I know the newly formed Vecto is just a shell company of Prerana and the guys handling Fiat car there will be shifted to Vecto, I fear for the future...
Personally, I am happy with the service of TAFE in Chennai for all these times. Now, Fiat's exclusive in Chennai is handled by RDC which is no way related to any of the existing TASSs. They have a Hyundai dealership running in Chennai. I would still be fine with them as they hired most of the experienced Fiat mechanics from TAFE. Seriously, we will have to come out of the 'Hate Fiat' mania and be optimistic instead of blaming Fiat on whatever they do.
rameshnanda is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2013, 09:32   #774
ACM
Distinguished - BHPian
 
ACM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 4,152
Thanked: 2,457 Times
Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdon View Post
But talking about the new dealership, independent of Tata, I don't really see a change coming in, the existing Tata dealers only in most of the cases, taken up the new dealership with old staffs, and a major shift in atitude will be a surprise, I felt the same old frustation while I gave my car for servicing at Prerana Motors, and I know the newly formed Vecto is just a shell company of Prerana and the guys handling Fiat car there will be shifted to Vecto, I fear for the future...
A very correct observations, frankly the dealers themselves cannot be all or mostly bad for one brand and all or mostly good for another brand. It is the Brands practice, systems, support, training, policies, products etc that make up the complete service package. I am aware of a TATA & (Presently also FIAT) dealer in Mumbai which also services Ford (In the same Location Separate Building) and also Toyota. We can obviously infer accordingly.
ACM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2013, 11:40   #775
BHPian
 
shivasuma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 767
Thanked: 271 Times
Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

Quote:
Originally Posted by rameshnanda View Post
I will have to intervene here after being a listener in this thread for a while.

Going by your logic of heavier car having edge over lighter ones, i20 should have brought down Punto/Linea hands down. i20 CRDI is indeed heavier than Punto and Linea. Everything is perceived with Fiat by the non owners.

Kerb weight of the cars in debate for reference -
i20 CRDI - 1222 kgs.
Linea MJD - 1210 kgs.
Punto 90 - 1144 kgs.
Punto 75 - 1130 kgs.

You are spot on with your later post in saying that modern cars should be lighter and be safer. And that is how I really see Punto's and Linea's.
According to this month's autocar, i20 weighs in at 1212 while Punto 90 weighs at 1144. So thats about 68 Kg difference. Also the 80-0 stopping distances for I20 and Punto are nearly the same. The i20's brakes are one of the best in its segments. You buy a car according to your requirements. Punto is not the "best" car in its segments neither is I20. So trying to put one down or the other is of no use. Fiat probably needs to improve their after sales. Opening their own service centres shows their commitment (despite having a miniscule market share). But how well will this be executed is to be seen. From my experience of having owned a Hyundai, their service is good, but maintenance is a bit on the higher side. I have not owned a fiat in recent times, but have owned several (1.37D, 1.38D, Uno) and their service at that point of time was pathetic (its actually an understatement). I think that past baggage to some extend is hurting them. All I can say is good luck fiat.
shivasuma is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2013, 15:21   #776
Senior - BHPian
 
amit_mechengg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,411
Thanked: 1,540 Times
Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdon View Post
But talking about the new dealership, independent of Tata, I don't really see a change coming in, the existing Tata dealers only in most of the cases, taken up the new dealership with old staffs, and a major shift in atitude will be a surprise, I felt the same old frustation while I gave my car for servicing at Prerana Motors, and I know the newly formed Vecto is just a shell company of Prerana and the guys handling Fiat car there will be shifted to Vecto, I fear for the future...
Even if they are same dealers, it will now be monitored and controlled by FIAT. This in itself is a big change. Fiat can now easily bend them to provide good service.

Example 1. B.U. Bhandari , Pune was a TATA dealer now shifted VW. Same service centre, same staff, same people. But service provided is 100 times better.

Example 2. Pandit Auto , Pune. Pimpri - Bad service for TATA cars, very good service to Fiat cars. Fiat team is entirely different, mechanics are different. Personally seeing how they do a team work is just fabulous. They love Fiat cars to the core and every mechanic just praises the car and says " Sir, dont worry, we will resolve the problem and only then go home"

Also dont bother about the advertisement of 5star ncap ratings etc. Fiat isnt a Hyundai who will put stickers all over the cars rear windshield for advertisement. " My next car is hyundai BLAH BLAH BLAH" "5 star rating" - on a non abs model too.

Practically we have seen so many accident pics accross all forums of maruti, honda , fiat, hyundaiand other cars. The build quality of FIAT cars is very much evident , be it a palio mulled down by a railway or a linea holding a 16 ton truck with stones filled over its roof. Owners have walked out safely and have directly bought another FIAT.

Last edited by amit_mechengg : 13th March 2013 at 15:25.
amit_mechengg is offline   (7) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2013, 16:53   #777
BHPian
 
Speed Pujari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 429
Thanked: 385 Times
Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
....

Practically we have seen so many accident pics accross all forums of maruti, honda , fiat, hyundaiand other cars. The build quality of FIAT cars is very much evident , be it a palio mulled down by a railway or a linea holding a 16 ton truck with stones filled over its roof. Owners have walked out safely and have directly bought another FIAT....
Amit you hit nail right on its head. One of the very main reason I own Fiats is bcoz I know that my family is safe once on the move.

I did a research and could not find any news of fatality in Fiats at least in India. The Bangalore train accident where a Palio was dragged for a KM when the couples came out with slight bruises, then the Linea taking a truckload of gravel on its head with the family cliking pictures of wreckage etc. are the things which gave me confidence. Not to mention, once you sit inside the car u get a sturdy and safe feel.

To the hell with pathetic after sales, resale, tata, and what not. All I care is my car should not become a grave for me or my family, I can throw away 10 Lineas/Palio/Punto for disposal if it is about my family's safety.

Maruti is one of the most notorious car for fatalities. The build quality of entry level cars from Maruti shows the amount of care the No.1 brand has for their customer's life.
Speed Pujari is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2013, 18:44   #778
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: TVM, BLR, HYD
Posts: 585
Thanked: 761 Times
Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

Seems things are improving. Mom is the registered owner of our family owned Punto and she got a feedback call a week before. She promptly asked them why is that everytime we have to take car to Bangalore for service ? Why the tvm guys not doing a good job ?

OT - Concorde did do an amazing job on regular service, promptly doing all checks, filter changes, free alignment etc. Of course,i do know few guys personally, so probably that's reason !

Post the call the service manager from TVM (one of the tata-fiat dealers) called her for a free pick up/drop + offered a free service next time ! Two guys came on Saturday to do a general checkup for free. Topped up radiator, wiper washer etc.

Though we never had any complaints in general with the car, service guys in kerala have done damage to the car in the name of fuel pump repair (it got replaced under warranty finally !) breaking clutch cable (or similar which resulted in no gear-shift beyond 1st gear !)

I am a SUV lover when in India and I love cars as much. When i drive a punto it feels solid, the ride quality is amazing. I know of a friend who had an accident in a palio because he dozed off, had a nasty crash, but his family including wife and two small kids escaped unhurt. They promptly booked a punto upon their return !

I think FIAT cars offer good options in their segments, people would buy once the image and service issues are sorted out.

At the same time, i'd also remind that i had bad experiences with Toyota (Servicing Innova), Maruti as well. but the overall perception is good !
sunishsamuel is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2013, 20:17   #779
Senior - BHPian
 
rameshnanda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,231
Thanked: 813 Times
Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

Quote:
Originally Posted by shivasuma View Post
According to this month's autocar, i20 weighs in at 1212 while Punto 90 weighs at 1144. So thats about 68 Kg difference. Also the 80-0 stopping distances for I20 and Punto are nearly the same.
Well, for the reasons best known to Hyundai they are shying away from displaying the Kerb weight for i20 in their website. I took the Official Review of Team-BHP to get the Kerb of i20. Link - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post2786425

Quote:
Originally Posted by shivasuma View Post
The i20's brakes are one of the best in its segments.
Really??? This is news at least to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shivasuma View Post
You buy a car according to your requirements. Punto is not the "best" car in its segments neither is I20. So trying to put one down or the other is of no use.
I was responding to a discussion on the weight advantage to clarify that Punto doesn't weigh as much as i20. If you want to discuss on the "BEST" car in the segment, this may not be the right thread.

Probably, the right thread may be - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...bad-roads.html (Hatchback with the best ride quality on bad roads?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shivasuma View Post
Fiat probably needs to improve their after sales. Opening their own service centres shows their commitment (despite having a miniscule market share). But how well will this be executed is to be seen. From my experience of having owned a Hyundai, their service is good, but maintenance is a bit on the higher side. I have not owned a fiat in recent times, but have owned several (1.37D, 1.38D, Uno) and their service at that point of time was pathetic (its actually an understatement). I think that past baggage to some extend is hurting them. All I can say is good luck fiat.
Not only Fiat, every car maker in India needs to improve their after sales. I am tired of saying this. People talk bad about Fiat service are actually non-owners or owned a Fiat 2 or 3 decades back and still correlate the same at present too. I have owned both Hyundai and Fiat in recent times and for me, I am more than happy with Fiat than Hyundai. More on this, here - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3061002 (Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network)
rameshnanda is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 14th March 2013, 10:26   #780
BHPian
 
S.MJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Navi Mumbai
Posts: 441
Thanked: 483 Times
Default Re: Fiat revvs away from Tata dealerships. To set up its own distribution network

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
Service experience is steadily going down, my last two services at Fortune Nerul have been really pathetic.
This is absolutely true. Not only service quality is going down, every time they (Fortune cars) have one or the other way to fleece customers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
The only hope is from April 1, Fortune will shift to exclusive Fiat service and hopefully lower volumes will bring more sanity in that outlet.
Any confirmed news where this exclusive dealership is coming up in Navi Mumbai. (I understand, Fortune cars has not taken up Fiat dealership)

Last edited by S.MJet : 14th March 2013 at 10:29.
S.MJet is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fiat increasing spare part availability in all its dealerships mints21 The Indian Car Scene 33 12th April 2014 18:39
Nissan India wants its own dealerships, Hover says NO! EDIT: R-I-P Hover GTO The Indian Car Scene 50 9th April 2014 14:48
2011 i10 Asta A/T - its Korean, its new, its fast, its red, and its coming. nirupesh Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 1 8th January 2011 10:45
Fiat mulls separate distribution network airbender The Indian Car Scene 5 13th October 2010 21:24
Revvhead Revvs off Revvhead Shifting gears 16 8th September 2005 14:09


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 03:28.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks