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Old 6th September 2012, 13:41   #106
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Default Re: Does Figo still carry the VFM tag among the Diesel cars?

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Originally Posted by swiftdiesel View Post
Your two cents argument is like saying all cars should have manual steering so that it'll be easier to push around when the car breaks down. Too "bad" cars today come with power steering as standard! An "inconvenience" in your books! Oh come to think of it even turn signal indicators are a bane! Should go back to the days of the Raj where you got to flap your hands like a chicken wing!
Oh c'mon. You've got it totally wrong. Am not trying to justify whether Ford is right or wrong in omitting rear power windows.

I was just trying to get my point across the board in saying how the absence of it has turned out to be a convenience feature for me. That was purely my personal opinion.

And please don't go overboard and stretch that beyond a sane discussion!
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Old 6th September 2012, 13:51   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vik0728

1. With the F/L Figo around the corner, should we hang in for a while or go with the current version ?

2. If I was asked as to point 1 flaw in Figo, I would say "The Rear Manual Windows". It's just Non-sense to me to call it a "Safety Feature".
Do you guys think the F/L will adress this "Flaw" ??

3. Last but the most important, Would the F/L have any other Engine option or are we just too "Indian" to have a Hot hatch ??
1. Request you need to wait for facelift as they will arrive in couple of months. You will benefit with good reflectors, rectified suspension & sexy 8 spoke alloys for Titanium.

2. Absent of rear power is a flaw due to obstruction of wheel arm for glass to roll down and in facelift, they have not added quarter glass for rear window to overcome this.

3. As per Ford insider, no engine changes and donot expect 1.5L or 1.6L in future for Figo because they are launching Fiesta hatch with 1.5L and they need to differenciate between their lineup of hatches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by b_naresh
I'm in the same boat. The wait is killing me and I don't even know if it is worth it! The weak headlamp issue is likely to be solved but no idea about the low ground clearance (15'' alloy wheels on Titanium maybe?) and rear power windows.
Its worth to wait for face lift Figo as the round refectors will have better focus than the current one which may solve weak headlamp issue.
Alloys are 14" and has sexy looks like the one found on Punto eight spokes slipt into two at the end. I doubt rear power windows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warwithwheels

IMO, I strongly believe that its a convenience
+1 For not being opened fully, I am least worried when my 4 year old mischeifous kid sits at back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarthikK

I beg to differ. I wonder why Ford should be worried about me leaving kids/elders in the car and them operating the windows without a key. That's an entirely subjective situation. The fact is, even a small hatch like the A-star comes with rear power windows now, being 2L lesser than the Figo. This excuse just doesn't pass. Winding type windows are primitive and remind me of the 1990s. When every other car out there is offering rear power windows to open /close at button press, I would like the same to be offered by the Figo as well (if I was a prospective customer). Deciding whether manual / automatic windows are more "convenient" for me is not the business of the company, in my opinion.
I understand your point the rear power window is missing because:
1. Wheel arch comes in for glass to roll
2. No quarter glass added to over come this issue.
3. As per Ford MD Mr.Boneham, if power window is added for window rolling half, people will keep pressing the button & this damages the motor in window.(silly reason)
4. Cost cutting measure.

Drive_addict has commented clearly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vnabhi

I fully endorse your views. And if Ford calls it a 'safety feature', then why does it provide rear power windows in the Classic and the new Fiesta? Are those cars relatively 'unsafe' compared to the Figo?
They are just projecting this flaw as a Safety Feature.

Last edited by HighOctane : 6th September 2012 at 13:56.
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Old 6th September 2012, 13:52   #108
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Default Re: Does Figo still carry the VFM tag among the Diesel cars?

At the cost of no rear power windows, ford is offering much more features at lower price point in comparison to the competition. So IMO its just the matter of preference and choice of the customer. In this market not a single car is complete or has each and every option for every consumer!
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Old 6th September 2012, 14:01   #109
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Post Re: Does Figo still carry the VFM tag among the Diesel cars?

Considering my family, we are two members and we rarely have a third person joining in our daily commute to office. Therefore the need for power windows in the rear is NIL. Also the cooling effect that the Figo Diesel offers, we rarely need to bring the windows down.
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Old 6th September 2012, 14:18   #110
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Default Re: Does Figo still carry the VFM tag among the Diesel cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighOctane View Post
2. Absent of rear power is a flaw due to obstruction of wheel arm for glass to roll down and in facelift, they have not added quarter glass for rear window to overcome this.
Quote:
+1 For not being opened fully, I am least worried when my 4 year old mischeifous kid sits at back.
Well there is always a power window lock switch which enables the driver to prevent others from operating the windows. How ineffective is that compared to el cheapo winding levers? In fact, the kid can still turn the winding lever if he wants to open it (because you as a driver have no control over what people do in the back seat). The power window lock will completely shut down the functionality, electronically.

Quote:
I understand your point the rear power window is missing because:
1. Wheel arch comes in for glass to roll
2. No quarter glass added to over come this issue.
3. As per Ford MD Mr.Boneham, if power window is added for window rolling half, people will keep pressing the button & this damages the motor in window.(silly reason)
4. Cost cutting measure.
1. Most sedans will also suffer from this 'wheel-arch-blocking-full-lowering' effect. I don't see anyone else complaining about this, so why does Ford do it?
2. No idea what a Quarter glass has to do with a power window!
3. So in effect, Ford MD believes that the Figo's power window switches/circuitry are not durable enough to be used by Indian consumers (since we are stupid to keep pressing it again and again like toddlers), hence justifies the removal as a better option than damaging it. Wow!
4. completely agree. This is the whole point. It is basically a cost-cutting move, masked by hideous excuses.

No offense meant by the way, my rant is directed towards Ford in general, not against any member or post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blow Horn Ok View Post
At the cost of no rear power windows, ford is offering much more features at lower price point in comparison to the competition. So IMO its just the matter of preference and choice of the customer. In this market not a single car is complete or has each and every option for every consumer!
It is not about what 'OTHER' features Ford is offering with the Figo. It is about why they cannot offer Power windows specifically when everyone else is offering it, from a 3L car to a 30L car. And by the way, what extra does Ford offer that is not there on other hatches?

I will name a single car (hatch) which has each and every option/feature you can think of! The i20!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blow Horn Ok View Post
Of course the i20 is feature rich but look at the price! Its a premium hatch and has competitors like the Jazz. The diesel is insanely priced IMO. Personally I would settle down for a decent sedan rather than the i20.
Maybe overpriced compared to the Figo. But it still answers your question about which car which has features for every consumer. *wink*. It has everything you can think of, in fact even some sedans don't have that many features.

Last edited by KarthikK : 6th September 2012 at 14:29.
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Old 6th September 2012, 14:22   #111
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Default Re: Does Figo still carry the VFM tag among the Diesel cars?

Of course the i20 is feature rich but look at the price! Its a premium hatch and has competitors like the Jazz. The diesel is insanely priced IMO. Personally I would settle down for a decent sedan rather than the i20.
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Old 6th September 2012, 14:22   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blow Horn Ok
At the cost of no rear power windows, ford is offering much more features at lower price point in comparison to the competition.
I had planned to buy swift VDi since Sep2011, the month they launched new gen swift. During May2012, I almost tried to book it as S.A informed me that he can get blue or black VDi next day itself. But my Wifey prevented me to do so after comparing with Figo tdci Titanium.

Swift VDi costs 7.32L on road in Bangalore. Figo TDCi Titanium cost 7.28L on road in Bangalore. Both almost same price. Bought Figo after convincing myself.

What I did not get choosing Figo: Sporty Drive, less 7bhp, more refined engine, Better suspensions, Best A.S.S, rear power windows, option of upgrading anything without warranty getting void(Alloys of my choice, upsize tyres, ICE with amp, woofers, 90/100 headlamps or HID)

What I got more choosing Figo: ABS, Driver/Passenger Airbags, Alloys, Great Music System with Bluetooth, Rear Defogger, Rear Wipe, Driver seat adjustable, Super Big boot, Better handling car(arguably better than swift) Stable car at high speeds. Reverse Parking Sensor with distance display, Art leather seat covers free from dealer.

Last edited by HighOctane : 6th September 2012 at 14:31.
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Old 6th September 2012, 14:58   #113
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Default Re: Does Figo still carry the VFM tag among the Diesel cars?

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Originally Posted by HighOctane View Post

3. As per Ford insider, no engine changes and donot expect 1.5L or 1.6L in future for Figo because they are launching Fiesta hatch with 1.5L and they need to differenciate between their lineup of hatches.

.
Are you sure about the Fiesta hatch being released? I've been waiting for it for more than a year, and yet there is no news. Can you please share when they are going to release it?
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Old 6th September 2012, 15:20   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
Well there is always a power window lock switch which enables the driver to prevent others from operating the windows. How ineffective is that compared to el cheapo winding levers? In fact, the kid can still turn the winding lever if he wants to open it (because you as a driver have no control over what people do in the back seat). The power window lock will completely shut down the functionality, electronically.

.
OT : I personally feel the power windows should operate even when the keys are out and only the power window lock/central(remote) lock should disconnect the switches from power. It will be more convenient IMO for the passengers to open/close the windows when desired

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blow Horn Ok View Post
Of course the i20 is feature rich but look at the price! Its a premium hatch and has competitors like the Jazz. The diesel is insanely priced IMO. Personally I would settle down for a decent sedan rather than the i20.
For its price i20 crdi offers wide range of features,top quality interiors and a brilliant diesel engine. For the extra cash you pay over a Figo or even the Swift, you get the luxury as well.
For 8.5 lakhs you won't be getting any sedan that is this loaded,refined or well built
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Old 6th September 2012, 15:54   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarthikK

Well there is always a power window lock switch which enables the driver to prevent others from operating the windows.

In fact, the kid can still turn the winding lever if he wants to open it (because you as a driver have no control over what people do in the back seat).

1. Most sedans will also suffer from this 'wheel-arch-blocking-full-lowering' effect. I don't see anyone else complaining about this, so why does Ford do it?
2. No idea what a Quarter glass has to do with a power window!
3. So in effect, Ford MD believes that the Figo's power window switches/circuitry are not durable enough to be used by Indian consumers (since we are stupid to keep pressing it again and again like toddlers), hence justifies the removal as a better option than damaging it. Wow!
I said safe for kids at back because Figo's rear windows roll down 50% only. I agree that other cars has power windows lock which is much better. Now coming to your points,

1. Other cars also suffers from wheel arch, but the quarter glass makes the window glass to fully roll down. Figo has no quarter glass and hence it will not roll down fully.

2. Quarter glass has role to play with glass fully rolling and not with power windows. See the blue car in the below picture, due to added quarter glass, the window glass will be able to roll down completely without touching wheel arch.

3. Ford MD defends that "because the rear window glass will not roll down, rear passengers will keep on pressing the power window button and due to this continious press, the motor in window will get damaged" (I know he is just defending the flaw for not having power window)

Hope you got my point

Quote:
Originally Posted by vnabhi

Are you sure about the Fiesta hatch being released? I've been waiting for it for more than a year, and yet there is no news. Can you please share when they are going to release it?
100% sure that Fiesta Hatch is going to be released, see below test mules running in Chennai outskirts. I do not know when exactly they are going to release. May be as early as Diwali or 1st quarter of 2013.

Edit: Sorry for low quality small pictures.
Attached Images
   

Last edited by HighOctane : 6th September 2012 at 15:58.
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Old 7th September 2012, 06:39   #116
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Default Re: Does Figo still carry the VFM tag among the Diesel cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
3. So in effect, Ford MD believes that the Figo's power window switches/circuitry are not durable enough to be used by Indian consumers (since we are stupid to keep pressing it again and again like toddlers), hence justifies the removal as a better option than damaging it. Wow!
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighOctane View Post
3. Ford MD defends that "because the rear window glass will not roll down, rear passengers will keep on pressing the power window button and due to this continious press, the motor in window will get damaged" (I know he is just defending the flaw for not having power window) .
Well, while the Ford MD might be defending their stand here, there is some truth in what he said.

A little , but something similar of this sort happened to my Opel in 2010. I had locked the windows as usual and one of my cousin kiddo who was sitting in the back seat wanted to open the rear window to play with the wind. He went on pressing the switch profusely for a while before someone else pointed that out to me.

To my utter shock, when I unlocked the windows, the left rear window just rolled down automatically and I wouldn't roll up any more. Upon checking it with the showroom folks next day, I learned that some cable in the power window motor broke due to the pressure / stress. I had to replace the entire left rear power window assembly to get things sorted out.

But, at any cost, the reasoning Ford MD gave for not having power windows is not justified.
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Old 7th September 2012, 08:12   #117
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Default Re: Does Figo still carry the VFM tag among the Diesel cars?

I was in the same boat 1.5 months back with a similar choice of cars.
Finally i shortlisted the following diesel cars.

Micra: Sweet engine and build quality and mileage (best in class). But, no ABS and quirky looks + car to car, at a similar price point i was getting much more usable equipment in the Figo. I really couldn't care much about the start/stop button and the folding mirrors.

Ritz VDI ABS: I could live with the lack of some equipment. I could also live with the dented rear. But, i couldn't live with that scared feeling i had when i changed a lane at 110 kmph. Steering gave no feedback and the body rolled a bit.

Swift VDI: A rip off. Its a good car. But only if one goes for the ZDi. That was a full lakh above the figo. Plus, when it came to steering/handling combo and bottom end torque - FTD factor, figo has no equal in hatches(apologies to punto fans. I tried two variants of the punto but could never feel the punch in it - looks wise, it still makes me go weak in the knees)

Fiat Punto 1.3 Active: A real VFM with all the discounts. The buyer gets lots of negotiating power. But, the uninspiring application of the 1.3 multijet is really irritating. The car refuses to go below 2k rpm. In contrast to that, the figo was almost go-kart like.

Is the figo VFM: Debatable. Everyone has a different yardstick.
Is it fun: Absolutely!

P.S: I havn't yet rolled down the rear windows as AC is always on. Ford can go about saying whatever they want. Its sheer stupidity.
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Old 7th September 2012, 09:44   #118
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Default Re: Does Figo still carry the VFM tag among the Diesel cars?

When I decided to buy a diesel hatch 2 years back, the main contenders were Figo Titanium and Punto Emotion Pack. Punto was 70k more than Figo, but for the 70k I was getting additional

1) 15 inch Alloys
2) 195/60/R15 tyres
3) Automatic Climate Control System
4) Far better rear seat with head rests
5) Power Windows on all 4 doors
6) Fog Lamps
7) Multi Information Display

So even 2 years back itself I didn't find Figo to be VFM when compared to Punto, I think it still remains the same way even now.

Last edited by nkg77 : 7th September 2012 at 09:45.
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Old 7th September 2012, 10:02   #119
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Default Re: Does Figo still carry the VFM tag among the Diesel cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkg77 View Post
When I decided to buy a diesel hatch 2 years back, the main contenders were Figo Titanium and Punto Emotion Pack. Punto was 70k more than Figo, but for the 70k I was getting additional

1) 15 inch Alloys
2) 195/60/R15 tyres
3) Automatic Climate Control System
4) Far better rear seat with head rests
5) Power Windows on all 4 doors
6) Fog Lamps
7) Multi Information Display

So even 2 years back itself I didn't find Figo to be VFM when compared to Punto, I think it still remains the same way even now.
I guess you forgot to mention
1] Much Better Ride Quality
2] Far Less "Thud" / Road Noise
3] Equally good Handling. If not slightly better.
4] Better Bumpers!!
5] Better Headlights for sure
6] Less Under Scrapes
7] A better Engine [debatable]

I hope the FIAT Spa's are able to give customers better ownership experiences. The Indian Car market would be an entirely different ball game if they could manage to do so.
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Old 7th September 2012, 10:26   #120
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Default Re: Does Figo still carry the VFM tag among the Diesel cars?

Punto is no doubt a superior product than the figo, but I feel you get what you pay. Yes, the extra cost is justified by the features and the looks are to die for. Still the figo sells almost 10 times to that of a punto. I feel ford has struck the chord and has placed and packaged the car much better in comparison to the fiat! It has managed to add several showrooms and service centers and bring down the 'high cost of ownership' tag!
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