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View Poll Results: My action on the Sun Film Ban
I have already removed it (DIY) 157 19.33%
I have already removed it (Got help) 106 13.05%
I will remove it before the deadline (DIY) 62 7.64%
I will remove it before the deadline (from a shop) 73 8.99%
I will ground my car and wait & watch for the order to change 375 46.18%
Mine are factory fitted and I can't remove them 39 4.80%
Voters: 812. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 7th August 2012, 16:29   #481
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Default Re: Your reaction to the Sun Film Verdict? EDIT - Ban in effect post 25th July judgem

Goverment should focus on the welfare of citizens rather than making their life more miserable. Car owners use sunfilms inorder to protect themselves from the illeffects of radiation and heat from the sun. Sunfilms acts as a facilitator for crimes but that's a very rare case. There are several other aspects that contributes to crimes to a much larger aspect. The Hon'ble court should consider these aspects too. Merely banning sunfilms won't do any good nor reduce the crime rate.
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Old 7th August 2012, 17:25   #482
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Default Re: Your reaction to the Sun Film Verdict? EDIT - Ban in effect post 25th July judgem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daewood View Post
You are quoting from the recent observations of the court. Please read the first judgment made about a couple of months back, which triggered the entire confusion.
Ok, I will quote from the first judgement:

Quote:
11. From the above provisions, it is clear that the Rules deal with
every minute detail of construction and maintenance of a vehicle. In
other words, the standards, sizes and specifications which the
manufacturer of a vehicle is required to adhere to while manufacturing
the vehicle are exhaustively dealt with under the Rules. What is
permitted has been specifically provided for and what has not been
specifically stated would obviously be deemed to have been excluded
from these Rules. It would neither be permissible nor possible for
the Court to read into these statutory provisions, what is not
specifically provided for.
Quote:
16. In face of the language of the Rule, we cannot grant the
petitioner the relief prayed for, that there should be 100 per cent
VLT. This Court cannot issue directions that vehicles should have
glasses with 100 per cent VLT. Rule 100 of the Rules is a valid piece
of legislation and is on the statute book. Once such provision
exists, this Court cannot issue directions contrary to the provision
of law. Thus, we decline to grant this prayer to the petitioner.
Quote:
17. However, the prayer relating to issuance of directions
prohibiting use of black films on the glasses of vehicles certainly
has merit. On the plain reading of the Rule, it is clear that car
must have safety glass having VLT at the time of manufacturing 70 per cent for windscreen and 50 per cent for side windows. It should be so
maintained in that condition thereafter. In other words, the Rule
not impliedly, but specifically, prohibits alteration of such VLT by
any means subsequent to its manufacturing.

Quote:
18. Two scenarios must be examined. First, if the glass so
manufactured already has the VLT as specified, then the question of
further reducing it by any means shall be in clear violation of Rule

100 as well as the prescribed IS. Secondly, the rule requires a

manufacturer to manufacture the vehicles with safety glasses with
prescribed VLT. It is the minimum percentage that has been specified.
The manufacturer may manufacture vehicle with a higher VLT to the
prescribed limit or even a vehicle with tinted glasses, if such
glasses do not fall short of the minimum prescribed VLT in terms of
Rule 100. None can be permitted to create his own device to bring
down the percentage of the VLT thereafter. Thus, on the plain
reading of the Rule and the IS standards, use of black films of any
density is impermissible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daewood View Post
The judgement was a reaction to the safety angle as imagined by the PIL guy and the fact that traffic cops don't have VLT meters.
As mentioned in the judgement, the safety angle was supported by some state govts and the central govt.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Daewood View Post
There is nothing like 'strict' implementation or 'lenient' implementation. On what basis will you decide that?
I said "interpretation" and not "implementation". By strict "interpretation" I meant that the court has disallowed anything that is not specifically permitted in the CMVR.
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Old 7th August 2012, 17:25   #483
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Default Re: Your reaction to the Sun Film Verdict? EDIT - Ban in effect post 25th July judgem

While I was also completely against the tints ban till recently ( had to take off super expensive 3M windscreen film , which was heartbreak), I think that its worked at least in NCR.

I have not seen many (any ?) media reports of rape in a moving car in Delhi since the sunfilm verdict whereas it used to be a dime a dozen crime in this testosterone charged area of the country.
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Old 7th August 2012, 17:35   #484
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Default Re: Your reaction to the Sun Film Verdict? EDIT - Ban in effect post 25th July judgem

^^^Hmm. So while everyone was ridiculing the sunFilm-ban rule for not being of any use in preventing such crimes, looks like indeed it has helped the objective for which SC enforced it.
Hopefully enforcement is made stricter in other cities also like being done in NCR.
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Old 7th August 2012, 17:45   #485
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Default Re: Your reaction to the Sun Film Verdict? EDIT - Ban in effect post 25th July judgem

^^^ This (reduction in whatever crimes) is too early to confirmed, especially during the summers to autumn (Oct end), as most people are out till very late in evening.

Most of such crimes tend to happen in cold & foggy winters, when the visibility is low & people tend to stay indoors.

But, then one would claim that sun-films are useless as ACs are not required in that season. I feel that we are trying to keep ourselves happy over a case of judiciary stupidity/ stubbornness/ shortsightedness.
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Old 7th August 2012, 19:47   #486
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Default Re: Your reaction to the Sun Film Verdict? EDIT - Ban in effect post 25th July judgem

Quote:
Originally Posted by JishD View Post
I have not seen many (any ?) media reports of rape in a moving car in Delhi since the sunfilm verdict whereas it used to be a dime a dozen crime in this testosterone charged area of the country.
Whereas I've seen more than a dozen completely black tint cars still on the road since that verdict. And I have seen so many cars with overuse of suction cup sun shades, making them worse than films.

I think, we are completely missing the point here! are we saying that rapes happen b'coz of films? and any films? and it requires more than a naked eye to figure out which one is a completely 'opaque like' film?

The attitude is, if you can't implement the law because of police's incapability, just change the law to something easy for dummies to implement.

As far as rapes are concerned, lets look at the total numbers rather than in moving cars, because cars are not the problem and people in them are (and they are still out there!)
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Old 7th August 2012, 21:12   #487
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Default Re: Your reaction to the Sun Film Verdict? EDIT - Ban in effect post 25th July judgem

If ban on sun films can prevent rapes, lets ban kitchen knives too. A whole lot of murders and assaults have taken place because they are banned. But they are not banned. Why? Because we can't do without them. Similarly, I don't know about others here, but I can't do without films in my car. I can't take the heat and the UV. Far fetched theories about rapes don't help me to reduce the cabin temperature in my car.

Also, further increase in cabin temperature will also make for impaired judgement and also make dirvers and occupants more short tempered. It sure does that to me. It is already hot in there in summer, even with the films on. While parking and on signals, its intolerable. Even if we assume that ban on films will reduce rapes, let us be ready for more accidents, esp. in summer.

This is besides increased fuel consumption, reduced AC life and security risks (esp. for ladies), which has already been mentioned.

Last edited by Raccoon : 7th August 2012 at 21:13.
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Old 7th August 2012, 21:42   #488
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarrySky
If I understand correctly, the Supreme Court has not made any new laws, but it has simply interpreted the existing provisions in the motor vehicle rules. I beleive the judges have said as much in the latest hearing on the review petition. I fail to see where the judicial overreach is in this case.
Overreach, even if we agree for a minute, doesn't exist in the interpretation, it surely does in pulling up cops for not forcing all vehicles on the road remove sun films. The cops have their own priority and will focus on items that need serious attention from a law and order situation and it is definitely incorrect for the court to insist that the police turn their attention and their resources to tackling a menace that only thd honorable court and couple of well intentioned misguided individuals perceive. For that matter, there are several other much more severe infractions of the law that need attention. With limited resources what do you expect your neighbourhood police to work on.
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Old 7th August 2012, 21:52   #489
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Default Re: Your reaction to the Sun Film Verdict? EDIT - Ban in effect post 25th July judgem

Women folks will certainly feel much safer in cabs without any sun films, when travelling alone.
I am still seeing a lot of cars with dark tints in chennai. The least the cops can do is remove the tints from these offenders. If people violate a direct order by the Highest judiciary in the country, what type of signal does it send to the next generation?
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Old 8th August 2012, 09:56   #490
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I now know what Bhagat Singh and Gandhi felt during British rule. My loved ones seems should travel with fully covered clothing(even face?) to avoid the indecent looks at the traffic signals. They felt comfortable as at least there is some layer of visibility blocking with sun films! As they say "God- why you made me look beautiful!"

I now know what business people felt when GAAR was thought of. I now know how Sistema and Telenor(they guys who were not part of bribery/any fraud and later bought stake in Syam and Unitech telcos) felt after 2G case. You invest your hard earned money and one day the court tells you - "The interpretation of law makes you a criminal -You will now be hanged at town gate- You could have followed the law earlier, but now its illegal! You the criminal ! "

On a personal level, I wont run business in a country like this, even if it is my home land.

This sun film ban is very much an encroachment on my personal freedom and liberty. I searched and installed only the 70/50 films from reputed manufacturers(3m and VKool). Now I am that guy who seems to have violated every law of land! Yes, I am now waiting to be hanged at town gate!

If there is less development in this country, this is the reason. If there is brain-drain from this country, this is the reason!

And I will become part of that brain drain the day, I will get booked for using a film with 70% VLT on front/rear and 50% VLT on sides. Fed up of serving this country - working for its villagers, helping them build libraries, teaching them how to use TPM techniques on farm equipments, improving agriculture with modern equipments and promoting organic farming! After all who cares for one lame guy leaving his country - there are 100 million more people in the country and a million is getting born every year!


Now it will be working for some gora sab and earning his dollars - Thank you dear supreme court for blowing sense to me and helping me become rich. After all, only people with big pockets can buy high end cars with inbuilt tints.

Last edited by GTO : 9th August 2012 at 12:50. Reason: removed smiley
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Old 8th August 2012, 10:13   #491
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Default Re: Your reaction to the Sun Film Verdict? EDIT - Ban in effect post 25th July judgem

The people involved in these crimes are the last ones to remove the film. because they installed these with a purpose. I am quite certain that those criminals must be having the films still in place and they know how to handle our cops. So it may be too early to come to any conclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JishD View Post
While I was also completely against the tints ban till recently ( had to take off super expensive 3M windscreen film , which was heartbreak), I think that its worked at least in NCR.

I have not seen many (any ?) media reports of rape in a moving car in Delhi since the sunfilm verdict whereas it used to be a dime a dozen crime in this testosterone charged area of the country.
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Old 8th August 2012, 10:42   #492
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Default Re: Your reaction to the Sun Film Verdict? EDIT - Ban in effect post 25th July judgem

Instead of crying hoarse about this problem, lets understand that legally we cannot paste sunfilm on our car windows. However the law/CVMR is silent about the fact that we can place sticky sunshades, cling sunfilms or even newspapers inside rolled up windows to avoid the sun. No one can fine you for doing so. Cheers
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Old 8th August 2012, 10:51   #493
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Default Re: Your reaction to the Sun Film Verdict? EDIT - Ban in effect post 25th July judgem

Quote:
Originally Posted by JishD View Post
I have not seen many (any ?) media reports of rape in a moving car in Delhi since the sunfilm verdict whereas it used to be a dime a dozen crime in this testosterone charged area of the country.
Yes. Since they can't hide behind sunfilms anymore, they've decided to sexually assault women in the roads itself, in full view of everyone.(guwahati incident)

On a more serious note, a rape in a moving car happened on June 8, after the police crackdown on sunfilms.
The car didn't have sunfilms. http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...man-driver-car

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarrySky View Post
Ok, I will quote from the first judgement:
You have omitted the points which explain the 'safety angle'.
Quoting from points 1 to 10.

Quote:
1. Alarming rise in heinous crimes like kidnapping, sexual
assault on women and dacoity have impinged upon the right
to life and the right to live in a safe environment which are
within the contours of Article 21 of the Constitution of India.
One of the contributory factors to such increase is use of black
films on windows/windshields of four-wheeled vehicles....
Quote:
2. The use of black films upon the vehicles gives immunity
to the violators in committing a crime and is used as a tool of
criminality, considerably increasing criminal activities....
Quote:
5. The use of black films also prevents the traffic police from
seeing the activity in the car and communicating with the
driver of the vehicle.
Quote:
8...In fact, in some of the countries, it is specifically banned. In Afghanistan, Belarus, Nigeria, Uganda and even in Pakistan, use of black films on the vehicle glasses is banned...

Last edited by Daewood : 8th August 2012 at 11:08.
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Old 8th August 2012, 11:19   #494
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Default Re: Your reaction to the Sun Film Verdict? EDIT - Ban in effect post 25th July judgem

Traffic police are very selective about whom to fine or whom not to fine.
For example defective silencers are prohibited and there are literally lakhs of autos in Bangalore & Chennai with modified silencers creating unbearable noise pollution. Has anybody been fined so far?
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Old 8th August 2012, 11:25   #495
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Default Re: Your reaction to the Sun Film Verdict? EDIT - Ban in effect post 25th July judgem

Is it true that light sun films are allowed? My friend was caught yesterday and the cop (SI) told him to go for light films if necessary. He had medium dark ones.
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