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Old 28th May 2012, 22:25   #46
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Default Re: Swift Catches fire: Owner Dies

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRtorquefan View Post
So, In variants with Electrical central locking, with failure in Electrical system of a car, Central locking operation becomes Ineffective, making Internal lock fobs non-functional which ultimately leads to Driver/passengers being trapped inside.
Central locking might becomes ineffective, I agree, but not necessarily the ability to unlock the door manually. The door lever is always mechanically linked, whether you have central locking or not. Only the latching mechanism is driven by a motor/actuator. (This is to latch/unlatch the locks when commanded by the driver side control.) This latching mechanism always have a mechanical override which is what you operate everytime you lock/unlock the car from inside.

Now, some cars have the lock/lever integrated into one. e.g. Palio. Some have separate levers, e.g. i10.
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Old 28th May 2012, 23:03   #47
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Default Re: Swift Catches fire: Owner Dies

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Originally Posted by CRtorquefan View Post
-VW/Skoda Introduced One-sided Central locking i.e Central locking from outside only.
Totally OT, but Fiat had one-sided central locking in Palio and later models before VW. Skoda, AFAIK came in 2003, a couple of years after the Palio.
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Old 29th May 2012, 00:17   #48
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Default Re: Swift Catches fire: Owner Dies

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Originally Posted by bejoy View Post
Central locking might becomes ineffective, I agree, but not necessarily the ability to unlock the door manually. The door lever is always mechanically linked, whether you have central locking or not. Only the latching mechanism is driven by a motor/actuator. (This is to latch/unlatch the locks when commanded by the driver side control.) This latching mechanism always have a mechanical override which is what you operate everytime you lock/unlock the car from inside.
Its not always necessary that Electrical Central locking has to be backed by Manual Override system. Most of the luxury cars have Electrical system only.
IMHO, Swift V & Z variant also comes with Electrical Central locking system only, as observed in few fire cases which I've came across in newspaper, etc, as the driver has to be always rescued by breaking the Door Window glass, either which has to be done by driver itself or people present nearby to the scene.
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Old 29th May 2012, 06:35   #49
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Default Re: Swift Catches fire: Owner Dies

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRtorquefan View Post
Its not always necessary that Electrical Central locking has to be backed by Manual Override system. Most of the luxury cars have Electrical system only.
It would be interesting to know which are these cars. That is, the locking/unlocking is done by an electric switch ( a button) and not a moving lever, at each doors.

Quote:
IMHO, Swift V & Z variant also comes with Electrical Central locking system only, as observed in few fire cases which I've came across in newspaper, etc, as the driver has to be always rescued by breaking the Door Window glass, either which has to be done by driver itself or people present nearby to the scene.
This is the picture from the Swift review thread. That lock slider is definitely a mechanical one. One possibility is that in case of fire, the lock levers (plastic) or surrounding get heated up and deformed thereby getting jammed.

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Old 29th May 2012, 06:39   #50
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Exclamation Re: Swift Catches fire: Owner Dies

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRtorquefan View Post
Central locking system uses Electrical trigger mechanism to operate the Locks both Inside & Outside. So, Wire-operated Mechanical system(as in M800, Alto, etc) are usually absent in such cars, except in base variants of some cars which comes without Central locking(Swift, Ritz, Dzire L-variants).
So, In variants with Electrical central locking, with failure in Electrical system of a car, Central locking operation becomes Ineffective, making Internal lock fobs non-functional which ultimately leads to Driver/passengers being trapped inside.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRtorquefan View Post
Its not always necessary that Electrical Central locking has to be backed by Manual Override system. Most of the luxury cars have Electrical system only.
IMHO, Swift V & Z variant also comes with Electrical Central locking system only, as observed in few fire cases which I've came across in newspaper, etc, as the driver has to be always rescued by breaking the Door Window glass, either which has to be done by driver itself or people present nearby to the scene.


This is incorrect and misleading.
ALL cars with a central locking system, both factory and aftermarket, do have a manual lock/unlock lever for each door connected to the door lock with bowden cable or metal rods. In some cars these manual lock/unlock levers are found just above the door open lever and in some cars its on top of the door panel on the base of the window.

Even cars with electrical central locking system like the new and old Swift and my old Astar have manual over rides. There is not a single car which doesn't have manual over rides over electrical system.

These manual over rides are connected to the door locks with cables/metal rods depending on the car model and even in the case of electrical short circuit one can lock and unlock the doors.

My cousin who owns the prev generation Swift with factory central locking was like when i manually unlocked and opened the passenger side door to get out of the car even though he engaged central locking. He did not know that it was possible to unlock the doors manually once it auto locks as he thought the unlocking has to be done by the switch. I have noticed that he always used the switch to unlock the doors to let passengers out when he comes to a stop and the passengers (uncle & aunt) usually waited till unlocked.

So please don't get psyched into believing that electrical short circuit=jammed doors. Use the manual over ride. I do find the european system of one pull unlock to be quicker during an emergency and during emergency the natural instinct is to pull the door open lever. The japs and the koreans use two lever door locks and these even though manually operable in case of short circuits won't be as quick in an emergency.
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Old 29th May 2012, 08:45   #51
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Default Re: Swift Catches fire: Owner Dies

The person may be in distress when he actually see the fire engulfing thus forgetting to properly unlock the switch before opening the door.
Also the locks is actuated by metal cable or rods, the pivot points and mechanism is made of plastic. There is a possibility that it could have melted or snapped when he/she tries to open the door.
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Old 29th May 2012, 09:35   #52
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Default Re: Swift Catches fire: Owner Dies

Just talking about these incidents can help you prepare for such circumstances. I hope when people buy the cars, this is one of the things that the salesperson would teach the new drivers. (like the air hostesses demonstrating emergency procedures in flights )

We should be able to identify when its prudent to get away from the car even in the midst of small problems like smoke. Default behaviour could be to look for the source and wasting time by which time as seen in couple of instances, the fire might spread very quickly.
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Old 29th May 2012, 13:04   #53
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Default Re: Swift Catches fire: Owner Dies

Quote:
Originally Posted by bejoy View Post
It would be interesting to know which are these cars. That is, the locking/unlocking is done by an electric switch ( a button) and not a moving lever, at each doors.

This is the picture from the Swift review thread. That lock slider is definitely a mechanical one. One possibility is that in case of fire, the lock levers (plastic) or surrounding get heated up and deformed thereby getting jammed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
This is incorrect and misleading.
ALL cars with a central locking system, both factory and aftermarket, do have a manual lock/unlock lever for each door connected to the door lock with bowden cable or metal rods. In some cars these manual lock/unlock levers are found just above the door open lever and in some cars its on top of the door panel on the base of the window.

Even cars with electrical central locking system like the new and old Swift and my old Astar have manual over rides. There is not a single car which doesn't have manual over rides over electrical system.

These manual over rides are connected to the door locks with cables/metal rods depending on the car model and even in the case of electrical short circuit one can lock and unlock the doors.
C'mon guys.
Externally, the Electrical lock trigger will appear as usual a lock fob, as you have shown in the pic above.
You can't figure out what's inside it or not ! Is it an Electrical, Mechanical or Electro-Mechanical one.
I'll definitely like to post the pics of the cars, which are having Electrical system alone by opening the door pads of those cars.

If fire can melt the locks' moving parts, then why the cars remained Locked during Mumbai floods, few years back ??
& most of those were luxury cars, like Mercs, etc with Electrical locking mechanisms. Passengers remained stranded in those cars & died as such in them due to drowning as their Electrical systems failed & their Central locking refused to do their function. They were also unable to break the window glasses, as those were also made up of Tough, Laminated material.

Even Autocar India magazine published a topic in their magazine regarding the same, few months back

If you guys still don't trust me then wait for complete details, I'll definitely post it with pics sooner or later.

Last edited by mobike008 : 29th May 2012 at 15:52. Reason: Pls do not quote pictures, large text and videos. It inconveniences our mobile readers. Thanks
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Old 29th May 2012, 13:54   #54
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Default Re: Swift Catches fire: Owner Dies

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRtorquefan View Post
C'mon guys.
Externally, the Electrical lock trigger will appear as usual a lock fob, as you have shown in the pic above.
You can't figure out what's inside it or not ! Is it an Electrical, Mechanical or Electro-Mechanical one.
I'll definitely like to post the pics of the cars, which are having Electrical system alone by opening the door pads of those cars.
Very easy. Just undo two screws (on most Maruti cars) and pull out the door trim. You can see what is inside or Visit the ICE thread you can see the innards of many doors including Swifts.

And here is the cable bowden of my central locking equipped AStar Vxi. Motor is not visible due to damping sheet.
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And the mechanism in the above picture is the same for both central locking equipped AStar and non central locking equipped Astar.

And here's how aftermarket central locking looks like on AStar. (Pics: karan1609)
Swift Catches fire: Owner Dies-photo0042.jpg
Swift Catches fire: Owner Dies-photo0043.jpg

The cable bowden/metal rod remains with or without central locking.

Anyway, if the fire has reached the door panel and has had time to melt the door card and lock mechanism its probably too late to get out.

Last edited by Sankar : 29th May 2012 at 14:04.
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Old 29th May 2012, 14:11   #55
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Default Re: Swift Catches fire: Owner Dies

Like Sankar mentioned, the Swift and other cars like A-Star etc have a manual override over the central locking. So it is not like in short-circuit scenarios, there is no way to open the door, as some posts mention on this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaurusAl
Even if I lock all doors centrally, I can still open the door individually manually by the knob next to the door handle from inside in my Ritz. So I don't think power failure should affect the opening of doors in emergency.
Same with our Swift-Zxi and the Baleno too. Even if the doors are centrally locked, each door can be opened by either turning the knob in the Swift and pulling up the pin-thingy in the Baleno.
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Old 29th May 2012, 14:28   #56
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Default Re: Swift Catches fire: Owner Dies

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/diy-do...ont-doors.html

This is a DIY thread where a swift vdi damping has been undertaken. The very first post has pictures, which clearly indicate linkages similar to the one posted by sankar of his A Star. Which indeed implies that there is a mechanical override to the electrical system. So I guess the arguement of the doors getting jammed does not hold true, unless as mentioned, before the fire damaged the linkages itself or the guy was nt aware that the opening mechanism can be mechanically over ridden.
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Old 29th May 2012, 15:04   #57
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Default Re: Swift Catches fire: Owner Dies

Why do cars catch fire just like that? One can understand if there is a collision but a vehicle catches fire just like that?

Also, I find fire extinguishers installed in cabs and bi fuel cars. Why cant that be made mandatory?

As far as I know, older vehicles seldom had these catching fire syndrome. Newer technologies, it seems, are more prone to this hazard.
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Old 29th May 2012, 19:11   #58
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Default Re: Swift Catches fire: Owner Dies

just out of curiosity, can't we place something hard inside the car, which can be used to break the car windows in such emergency and escape ?

just a thought
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Old 29th May 2012, 19:24   #59
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Default Re: Swift Catches fire: Owner Dies

Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyself View Post
Why do cars catch fire just like that? One can understand if there is a collision but a vehicle catches fire just like that?
  • short circuiting
  • cables getting heated due to overloading
  • engine getting overheated (drained coolant)
  • leaking fuel line/tank coming in contact with hot object (like exhaust)
  • etc
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Old 29th May 2012, 22:37   #60
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Default Re: Swift Catches fire: Owner Dies

Of late there appears an alarming rise in such incidents. Shouldn't manufacturers ( all manufacturers ) make one of the four window glasses very thin and frail. Just thick enough to ptrotect from rain lashing. This glass ( pavement-side front door ) should have very thin window glass for just such an emergency. It should be so thin that even a slightly bulit person can kick with both his feet and shatter it.
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