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View Poll Results: Your line of thought?
It's worth waiting in queue to fill up on the eve of a fuel price hike 35 5.81%
The saving is too negligible considering the effort, time etc. It's not worth it 567 94.19%
Voters: 602. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 29th May 2012, 17:04   #121
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Default Re: Ridiculous! Waiting in a petrol pump queue on the eve of a price hike

Quote:
Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
By 11PM most would have slept, most bunks would have closed. Since bunks open at 6AM, not sure if they would have received the order and implemented the new price. Even if they do, imagine the shock when somebody wants to fill up at 6AM and is informed that price has gone up by Rs 7.5 !

Probably the Govt can give more than 24 hours notice of the hike. This will give ample time for those who want to fill up.
I agree with you. We should get at least one day notice.
I came to know about this hike only after 11:30 PM while reading some post on TBHP.

How does one keep a tab on such hikes in future?
Edit: There should be one more poll option: It depends on the queue at the pump and the distance from home.

Last edited by S_U_N : 29th May 2012 at 17:06.
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Old 29th May 2012, 17:14   #122
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Default Re: Ridiculous! Waiting in a petrol pump queue on the eve of a price hike

@aplang1; the entire attack at your business premises is more out of frustration at govt policies, corruption, inflation and the growing inequality between the masses and the classes, so to say. It is easier to be part of a faceless crowd and get away with it. None of these people would be found leading an agitation or protest for example.
I would recommend that your father consider closing down the pump during the next hike, regardless of your half day losses or what people say. People wont come to refund your losses in any case.
Some blame also needs to be placed at the doorsteps of the media for stirring emotions and popularising vigilante justice. Now any random person will think of himself as a hero for doing a Dabanng or Singham type of riot, whereas in reality he is just a nuisance. I bet the people who made that mess at your pump would be quite chuffed the next day instead of being ashamed at what they did. And that I think is the main problem. The attitude.

Edit: I dont think any notice is required for price hikes. In order to maintain order, it is best to announce overnight. In any case, possibility of hikes is in the news for quite some time beforehand so it should be adequate to tank up in advance.

Even more reason why the hikes should be marginal, say a couple of rupees at a time than a 7.50 rupee hike at one shot. People cope better with small hikes though there will still be people lining up to save a few bucks. Not judging anyone, just stating the obvious!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Scene from a fuel bunk in Chennai where people are facing severe fuel shortage problems. This fist fight was for jumping the queue.
I hope the person who jumped the queue was the one beaten up and not the other way around!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
But now on hindsight, I am glad I did, because of the petrol shortage problem since yesterday. PLUS, a lower middle-class person like me needs to eke out any bit of savings as I can - the 200-odd rupees I saved that day equates to a whole week of vegetable supplies for my family.
A lower class (in terms of money) person like me is going about it the other way around. Cutting down on travel and moving to office transport (oncoming monsoon increases traffic and reduces mileage!). In fact vegetable prices have increased by 60%, so I am a bit surprised by your statement. Nevertheless, I think I should grow veggies at home or turn a pure meat eater!

Last edited by selfdrive : 29th May 2012 at 17:21.
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Old 29th May 2012, 18:11   #123
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Default Re: Ridiculous! Waiting in a petrol pump queue on the eve of a price hike

Quote:
Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
By 11PM most would have slept, most bunks would have closed. Since bunks open at 6AM, not sure if they would have received the order and implemented the new price. Even if they do, imagine the shock when somebody wants to fill up at 6AM and is informed that price has gone up by Rs 7.5 !

Probably the Govt can give more than 24 hours notice of the hike. This will give ample time for those who want to fill up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grazd View Post
....
One factor that I think might be in the minds of many people is that the general perception of petrol pump owners and operators isn't very good, to put it mildly. Apart from the obvious problems with quality and service issues (which may be due to myriad reasons right from low paid staff to mafia presence), there is a notion that most petrol pumps are owned/operated by politically connected/influential people. Of course there are exceptions like those run by ex-servicemen, or run by honest and upright folks like your family, but it seems the vast majority of petrol pump allotments are usually done in a not very transparent way. Maybe I am mistaken, and I would love to be proven wrong on this.

...... Many people think that pump dealers are all just a politically connected mafia minting money by selling an essential commodity with dubious quality standards. The periodic stories that appear in the press about this issue, be it the burning of an officer in Maharashtra, or the murder of S.Manjunath in UP, only serve to reinforce this belief.

This in NO WAY justifies mob violence in petrol pumps, but I am only trying to point some of the reasons why a mob might get easily incited to violence.

....
We are not discussing those issues(adultration, quantity etc.) here.

The issue is "should you fill up everything you can fill up before the price hike come into effect or you shouldn't"?


If you don't go filling just because a hike is on the way you can avoid lot of these misfortunes/unfortunate events.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_U_N View Post
I agree with you. We should get at least one day notice.
I came to know about this hike only after 11:30 PM while reading some post on TBHP.

How does one keep a tab on such hikes in future?
Edit: There should be one more poll option: It depends on the queue at the pump and the distance from home.
And that's the whole point of announcing it late in night to avoid that kind of frenzy and greed. If gov. announce in late night when all the bunks are closed and with immediate effect we would not have to put up with all this mess like sortage(that day and later), traffic jams, fights and (risk of ) riots!

Last edited by Suess : 29th May 2012 at 18:15.
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Old 29th May 2012, 18:24   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supertinu View Post

Sorry to hear about your experience Aplang. Definitely a very scary evening for your entire family. Things like this are actually worse in Punjab and north cause everyone is someone . Reading this I guess shutting down pumps and losing half day of business is better than than the ordeal.

Dear Sir, as per the Food and Supplies department regulations, shutting down the outlet is not an option. The one's who do can face action from the authorities. The idea here is that unless you are very well connected, like you mentioned, you'd rather keep operating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by libranof1987 View Post
Thank you for sharing this; puts in a lot of perspective.

Don't worry, there is enough goodness in the world to reward your dad and the employees for the good work.
Thank you and I sure hope there is. My only issue with the mob was that in case they were so frustrated, why not do all these antics right outside the Parliament.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreyas Aterkar View Post
Just hope that this post is read by as many people to realize what their few rupees savings could mean for others.
This is what people have to read and realise for themselves. No one is denying you anything. If we can just get things done in an orderly manner. Thats it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suess View Post
I think what Aplang1 has written should be an eye-opener for all of us. It could have turned ugly. Thank God all is fine with his family and those employees.

Hope better sense would prevail.
This is precisely what i was scared about. Sitting here in Mumbai, all sorts of thoughts come to your mind. For the employees, life carries on. Just another day in a series of ordeals they go through each day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
Horrible ordeal. I am so glad your family (especially your Dad) made it out safe and sound at the end of it all. Even the employees have to be commended for sticking with it all till the end and seeing it out.
The scariest part was when he couldn't be located. To describe it precisely, he had to jump over the boundary wall on the back and run to the nearest police station to get some help. There was no way he could have taken his car out. The employees were up again next morning. Smiling like nothing ever happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grazd View Post
Thank you for sharing your experience.
When trust breaks down, then chaos is not far.
Sir what you have said here is absolutely correct. If i start describing to you the allotment process, this thread would turn into a horror story.
In our particular case, people around in the city are aware that the owner is a simple man. No harm in threatening him. Lets push him and see if we get results.
Its up to each one of us to check where we can get the right fuel and in the right quantities irrespective of the city where we live. There are ways to do the same. I have a write up ready. I just need to cross my 25 post moderation limit to start that thread. You will be surprised to know that the oil companies are indirectly promoting wrong activities.

And what a brilliant thought sir.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kaushik_s View Post
Saving money is not a crime, I'm all for saving money. But definitely not at the cost of causing inconvenience to others by creating jams, having fist fights or in extreme case of causing destruction to others/other's property (read aplang1's post).
This is probably my only grouse. You want fuel - we will give it to you. But the least we expect is that you don't damage our property in the bargain or cause inconvenience to the society in general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfdrive View Post
It is easier to be part of a faceless crowd and get away with it. None of these people would be found leading an agitation or protest for example.
And that I think is the main problem. The attitude.
Sir you have made a very valid point here. When i spoke to my dad later in the night, he said he didn't even recognise half the people who were out there damaging property. My sister recalls it as a nightmare. The attitude is what makes all the difference.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was initially going to put links for the CCTV camera footage which my sister mailed to me. But then i decided against it. It is just sad to look at and somehow I feel people end up deriving voyeuristic pleasure from such videos and then move on.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The media is also to be blamed for the way they treat issues. With tight production budgets they try to create as much sensation as possible sitting inside the studio itself. And leading them is this gentleman who presents a show in the evening on Times Now. God only knows what he is upto each evening. He does something for 20 minutes by the end of which all his viewers are left with loads of unanswered questions and mixed emotions. Dumbfounded is how describe it. Half his guests walk out because he keeps cutting them off. The others are convinced by the end of the show that what the presenter is saying is absolutely correct.

You watch such news channels for half an hour and this translates into the kind of reaction that we saw in the form of the mob.
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Old 29th May 2012, 18:50   #125
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Default Re: Ridiculous! Waiting in a petrol pump queue on the eve of a price hike

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarathlal View Post
By announcing the hike at 4 pm and making it in effect by 12 pm, the Govt is not doing any favor to the common people by letting them know 'early' of the 'impending danger!'

Exactly! No point in giving 3-4 hours to the public just for chaos.
And regarding shocks, its just a matter of whether we get the shock today or tomorrow.
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Old 29th May 2012, 19:06   #126
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Default Re: Ridiculous! Waiting in a petrol pump queue on the eve of a price hike

Quote:
Originally Posted by msdivy View Post
By 11PM most would have slept, most bunks would have closed. Since bunks open at 6AM
Yes, people should be sleeping when this kind of change takes place. If not, they will be performing this ridiculous petrol pump queuing and be part of all the unnecessary chaos.
I would say, give one more day of peaceful sleep to the public, the pump people et al.
The rise in price and shocks will anyway happen, its just a matter of a day.
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Old 30th May 2012, 05:44   #127
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Default Re: Ridiculous! Waiting in a petrol pump queue on the eve of a price hike

Quote:
Originally Posted by aplang1 View Post


Thank you and I sure hope there is. My only issue with the mob was that in case they were so frustrated, why not do all these antics right outside the Parliament.


Its up to each one of us to check where we can get the right fuel and in the right quantities irrespective of the city where we live. There are ways to do the same. I have a write up ready. I just need to cross my 25 post moderation limit to start that thread. You will be surprised to know that the oil companies are indirectly promoting wrong activities.


I was initially going to put links for the CCTV camera footage which my sister mailed to me. But then i decided against it. It is just sad to look at and somehow I feel people end up deriving voyeuristic pleasure from such videos and then move on.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The media is also to be blamed for the way they treat issues. With tight production budgets they try to create as much sensation as possible sitting inside the studio itself. And leading them is this gentleman who presents a show in the evening on Times Now. God only knows what he is upto each evening. He does something for 20 minutes by the end of which all his viewers are left with loads of unanswered questions and mixed emotions. Dumbfounded is how describe it. Half his guests walk out because he keeps cutting them off. The others are convinced by the end of the show that what the presenter is saying is absolutely correct.

You watch such news channels for half an hour and this translates into the kind of reaction that we saw in the form of the mob.
It is awful to hear your ordeal, but I really admire the fact that your family could bravely face these things, and it is very inspiring for many of us.

Regarding the other points that you have raised, I don't mean to derail the thread, but I feel that nothing exists in isolation. The price of petrol is not an abstract mathematical entity but one that exists in the real world and is determined by its particular socio-economic context. So to discuss it in any meaningful way involves addressing a lot of the issues that you have raised.

Yes, If those in power do not take heed and reform their ways then I feel the day may not far when mob violence directly targets them, there is a limit to the patience of any society and our politicians are close to finding out what those are. The powerful don't seem to understand that by crushing non violent citizen's movements and compromising the independence of the judiciary they are removing all the legitimate means of protest that an ordinary person has. The only recourse left then is the violent option which we are already seeing in some parts of the nation. (I am not justifying this in any way, but it is a consequence of the way the system is structured.)

Please do share your write-up regarding fuel quality, I feel it will be very valuable to all of us, and you have a unique perspective in the issue that many of us may do not have access to. (Even before you reach your post count, if you wish you can still submit the thread for approval, mods always encourage constructive discussions.)
If there is something concrete that can be done, however small it is, I would like to try that, rather than boring folks with my useless philosophizing.

Also, IMHO, it might be a good idea to post the videos that you have if you can do it in an anonymous way, and if faces are obscured. There will be people watching it for voyeuristic pleasure but it can also be a learning for many others who rush to fill fuel, to see what can happen as a result of that frenzy. Images are more powerful than words so the impact will be greater.

Providing this is the job of the media, and as you have rightly pointed out the less said the better, that is another can of worms, and I don't want to get banned by ranting about it here.

I am really grateful to you for taking the time to share your experiences because you add a lot of value and relevance to this discussion.
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Old 30th May 2012, 11:37   #128
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Default Re: Ridiculous! Waiting in a petrol pump queue on the eve of a price hike

i have a serious doubt, 95% of the poll says "no, negligible savings" - i too accept, but why so long Q's then ? am amused at our mentality, saying no but doing the opposite.

my point is - 1.always fill tank when half empty - that means always have half tank of fuel, for any emergencies. 2.fill the tank 1-2 days before you are going on a road/long trip, eases the tension on the D day.
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Old 30th May 2012, 11:52   #129
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Default Re: Ridiculous! Waiting in a petrol pump queue on the eve of a price hike

Quote:
Originally Posted by shekaran View Post
i have a serious doubt, 95% of the poll says "no, negligible savings" - i too accept, but why so long Q's then ? am amused at our mentality, saying no but doing the opposite.
Not everyone who stands in those queues have taken this poll, maybe?

I am all for saving money. I would buy goods from a shop that I know offers better price than their peers, even if the savings are just a few rupees. But would I do that if I had to drive 25 kms out of my way and then wait 1 hour in a queue? Probably not.

The intention of this poll is to understand if the savings made by topping up on the eve of the hike - are they worth the pain? It is not about will you save or not.

Rajan

Last edited by PatchyBoy : 30th May 2012 at 12:02.
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Old 30th May 2012, 12:09   #130
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Default Re: Ridiculous! Waiting in a petrol pump queue on the eve of a price hike

Quote:
Originally Posted by shekaran View Post
i have a serious doubt, 95% of the poll says "no, negligible savings" - i too accept, but why so long Q's then ? am amused at our mentality, saying no but doing the opposite.

my point is - 1.always fill tank when half empty - that means always have half tank of fuel, for any emergencies. 2.fill the tank 1-2 days before you are going on a road/long trip, eases the tension on the D day.
You seriously believe the result outcome of this miniscule poll afects the junta outside Team-BHP!?
even if 50000 people vote for the "NO" option this figure is even less than 0.00001% of India's population!
I have all reasons to believe that team BHP members are more sensible but this does not hold good for the majority of the other folks.
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Old 30th May 2012, 12:37   #131
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Default Re: Ridiculous! Waiting in a petrol pump queue on the eve of a price hike

Quote:
Originally Posted by shekaran View Post
i have a serious doubt, 95% of the poll says "no, negligible savings" - i too accept, but why so long Q's then ?
Shekaran, you didn't read through the previous posts. Your answer was here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Surprising how many folks voted for the second option but conveniently pleaded guilty of having a completely empty tank! Perhaps GTO should have had a third poll option saying "I don't like filling up just before a price hike, but my tank was bone dry and engine running on fumes only, so I just HAD to go and queue up."
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Old 30th May 2012, 13:15   #132
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Default Re: Ridiculous! Waiting in a petrol pump queue on the eve of a price hike

I have voted No. I would never like to stand in queue if its going to take over 10-15 minutes.
I would rather use that time to spend with family/office or anything else!
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Old 30th May 2012, 14:43   #133
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Default Re: Ridiculous! Waiting in a petrol pump queue on the eve of a price hike

Quote:
Originally Posted by aplang1 View Post
What should my dad do when the prices are hiked the next time? Shouldn't he also put a board saying "OUT OF STOCK" and give himself and his employees half a day off?? Or should he put up with the all the nonsense like he has been, after every price hike announcement, for the last 9 years.
I am really shocked to read this Aplang1! Thank God your parents and sister were not touched. Controlling a mob is really not in local police's hands or in localites hands. Kudos to your father and his employees for handling the situation in a proper way. Its better to have the OUT OF STOCK board put up, than messing with a mob or showing them the right way.

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Old 30th May 2012, 16:38   #134
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Default Re: Ridiculous! Waiting in a petrol pump queue on the eve of a price hike

Have voted 2nd - not because it is negligible, but it is definetly NOT worth-it !.

Have another view as well - especially seeing the chennai scene for last 3 days. Panic situation - simply put, we are getting used to stand in queue wherever there is one !.

Why not use alternatives - when there is a shortage or short supply. May be some one need them for emergency.

Good that Public Transport, Ambulance etc - saying they are unaffected. But i have my own doubts. Wish, am proven wrong !.

As a responsible citizen, may be we should take such situations as opportunity to try out alternatives (cycle, public transport, car pooling, work-from-home). Isn't a good excuse to practice 'Go-green' initiatives !.
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Old 30th May 2012, 20:59   #135
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Default Re: Ridiculous! Waiting in a petrol pump queue on the eve of a price hike

I agree with this fact.
I remember I was driving a XL super at 10th class. I remember the petrol price was ~28 during 1999.
Once there was a announcement that there will be a price hike by tomorrow. So I wanted to top up. Apparently after calculating the savings was not even Rs.10/-
But for this I need to spend in que to fill in, for which I can productively use it else where.
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