Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 3rd May 2013, 01:58   #76
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Mpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 10,432
Thanked: 1,682 Times
Default Re: Skoda Superb DSG 7 Speed DQ200 failures- China gets official reaction, why not In

Here's a recall from Singapore.

http://paultan.org/2013/05/02/volksw...all-singapore/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
There has been no recall anywhere except in China, and that too after state owned CCTV took up the issue as part of its periodic shakedowns of foreign companies operating there.
Interesting. My hunch is that after years & years of being ridiculed for making cheap and chintzy products, the Chinese were seeking sweet revenge against a Western company that made problematic products.

VW moved swiftly because they sensed that the Chinese government would certainly back the media
Mpower is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2013, 10:03   #77
Senior - BHPian
 
StarScream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Noida/Delhi
Posts: 1,247
Thanked: 632 Times
Default Re: Skoda Superb DSG 7 Speed DQ200 failures- China gets official reaction, why not In

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Here's a recall from Singapore.

http://paultan.org/2013/05/02/volksw...all-singapore/

Interesting. My hunch is that after years & years of being ridiculed for making cheap and chintzy products, the Chinese were seeking sweet revenge against a Western company that made problematic products.

VW moved swiftly because they sensed that the Chinese government would certainly back the media
There's another reason, China is to VW what India is to Suzuki. They can't afford to take that market for granted.
StarScream is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2013, 10:24   #78
BHPian
 
mango_pal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Bombay
Posts: 142
Thanked: 71 Times
Default Re: Skoda Superb DSG 7 Speed DQ200 failures- China gets official reaction, why not In

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrous Power View Post
Am I reading it correctly? India needs VW more than VW needs India. As djpeesh mentioned, VW is not recalling the in-famous DSG and even have guts to launch new car with the same is just because of lack of law enforcement by government.
It's all about feasibility. What costs more money: initiating a total recall of the cars or compensating the customers who face failure of gearboxes.

On one hand you have cost of recall (A)

On the other hand:
Number of cars on the road * Probability of failure * average cost of settlement/replacement. (B)

If A>B, then you don't initiate a recall.

In a country like India where the cost of a settlement or replacement is minimal, why would they choose a recall?
Most people wouldn't even know about these problems. Its only well informed consumers like us who know or care.

Quote:
Look at Toyota. They just now recalled Toyota Corolla for a faulty airbag mechanism by third party vendor, that too from 2004 manufactured cars. As per Toyota, impacted cars in India are no more than 1000 units.
This is one of the reasons I like Toyota. They are the exception to the rule. They create a phenomenal and reliable brand.
Any issue that they face, no matter how small will be reported and addressed by them.
mango_pal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2013, 19:35   #79
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Anand, Gujarat / Virginia Beach, US
Posts: 458
Thanked: 176 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayek View Post

There has been no recall anywhere except in China, and that too after state owned CCTV took up the issue as part of its periodic shakedowns of foreign companies operating there.
This is not correct. VW has recalled DSG in USA in past, not once but TWICE in 2009.
Nitrous Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2013, 19:58   #80
BHPian
 
Hayek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bombay
Posts: 705
Thanked: 1,598 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrous Power View Post
This is not correct. VW has recalled DSG in USA in past, not once but TWICE in 2009.
That recall dealt with a specific problem in some lots due to a power spike in manufacturing
But failures have continued in gearboxes made after that, and to my knowledge, China is the first case of general recalls to fix mechatronics
Hayek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd May 2013, 20:37   #81
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 3,462
Thanked: 1,974 Times
Default Re: Skoda Superb DSG 7 Speed DQ200 failures- China gets official reaction, why not In

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Interesting. My hunch is that after years & years of being ridiculed for making cheap and chintzy products, the Chinese were seeking sweet revenge against a Western company that made problematic products.
I can't find that article. And most certainly dont now the degree of spindoctored (mis)information in it. But the gist of was this:-
Despite a well thought out strategy carrot and stick (and outright IPL theft), the Chinese auto industry is nowhere close to challenging the established manufacturers on ability to design. To quote the artcle from memory (so E&OE) they are regarded as component suppliers, and not Tier 1 at that. The heat on the DSG is part pique, part strategic course correction, part waening shot across bows.

Quote:
VW moved swiftly because they sensed that the Chinese government would certainly back the media
Not the media was 'friendly suggested' what to do by the government.

OT. From time to time there are lawsuits against Google charging it with bias in its search results. (Leaving aside Googles questionable ad related policies) the real intent of these lawsuits was to make reveal the inner workings of its search engine. (My Honour, this is how the search engine works. How can you say we are not being honest). Similarly maybe for VW if it has to prove that it did not delibarately and knowingly dump nonmerchandisable items in China.

Just for the record, in case I come across as an apologist for VW, let me say that I'm highly critical of their attitude in India.

Regards
Sutripta
Sutripta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th May 2013, 13:55   #82
BHPian
 
vinair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 493
Thanked: 856 Times
Red face Asian climate and traffic blamed for DSG failures!!

It cannot get any funnier than this!!!

A VW spokesman has commented on 8 May 2013, saying that the “hot and humid climate mixed with the traffic chaos makes the DSG incompatible” while not revealing the problem that would occur. VW further says that the DSG gearbox would need a fair amount of “cooling by the wind” to work efficiently.

Further read - http://indianautosblog.com/2013/05/v...-climate-75182

Last edited by vinair : 9th May 2013 at 13:56.
vinair is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 9th May 2013, 14:20   #83
Senior - BHPian
 
alpha1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: P00NA
Posts: 1,614
Thanked: 950 Times
Default Re: Asian climate and traffic blamed for DSG failures!!

My god, they just wont admit that it is because of POOR ENGINEERING.
I would want a test to facilitate this joker's claim: measure the temperature of transmission fluid in a running car in Europe and compare that to China/India.

And what has humidity got to do with failure??
And Traffic? Because it causes frequent gear shifts?
So what else is a gearbox supposed to do?

Last edited by alpha1 : 9th May 2013 at 14:25.
alpha1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th May 2013, 14:29   #84
BHPian
 
johy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Siliguri
Posts: 837
Thanked: 370 Times
Default Re: Asian climate and traffic blamed for DSG failures!!

If that be the case, why on earth sell it here! Unacceptable.
johy is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 9th May 2013, 14:42   #85
Senior - BHPian
 
longhorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,150
Thanked: 282 Times
Default Re: Asian climate and traffic blamed for DSG failures!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinair View Post
A VW spokesman has commented on 8 May 2013, saying that the “hot and humid climate mixed with the traffic chaos makes the DSG incompatible” while not revealing the problem that would occur. VW further says that the DSG gearbox would need a fair amount of “cooling by the wind” to work efficiently.
Seriously someone needs to knock some sense into that guy. You don't build a market around a gearbox. You build a gearbox to cater to the market. Looks like the DSG is a serious contender towards becoming the achilles heel of the VW Group.
longhorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th May 2013, 15:50   #86
Senior - BHPian
 
humyum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Leicester/Mumbai
Posts: 2,287
Thanked: 2,155 Times
Default Re: Asian climate and traffic blamed for DSG failures!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by longhorn View Post
Seriously someone needs to knock some sense into that guy. You don't build a market around a gearbox. You build a gearbox to cater to the market. Looks like the DSG is a serious contender towards becoming the achilles heel of the VW Group.
ROFL. I can't fathom putting 9.5 lakh arounds on a Tsi POLO who's company people say stuff like this. The DSG of that car is going to be working overtime as I ll be mainly a city around. World save the people who buy this without eve waiting for a long term report.
humyum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th May 2013, 17:09   #87
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: KA
Posts: 336
Thanked: 222 Times
Default Re: Asian climate and traffic blamed for DSG failures!!

So what are they waiting for ? Still want people to buy their expensive DSGs and then wait for them to get screwed.
To put it simply, they don't trust their own engineering now.

Amazing !!!
Shiv_1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th May 2013, 21:33   #88
BHPian
 
Hayek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bombay
Posts: 705
Thanked: 1,598 Times
Default

All I can say is let's appreciate some long overdue candour. It has been fairly obvious based on DSG failure rate statistics that hot and high traffic conditions trigger failures. Which is why failure rates have been much higher in India, china, Australia and Southern Europe than in Germany. Hopefully, this acknowledgment of a design flaw will help folks who need to take action to get the product rectified out of warranty, even if there is no recall. It also suggests why a recall does not make sense in this case - you recall products if you have a solution, which VW evidently does not have. The recalls in China, Singapore and Japan are mere tokenism - to assuage customers but are unlikely to lead to dramatically different failure rates in my view.
Hayek is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 9th May 2013, 21:52   #89
BHPian
 
arjun18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Pune
Posts: 42
Thanked: 14 Times
Default Re: Skoda Superb DSG 7 Speed DQ200 failures- China gets official reaction, why not In

This is the same gearbox that's present on the Polo TSI isn't it?
Even SVP seems to be unaware of the problem. :P
arjun18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th May 2013, 09:39   #90
Senior - BHPian
 
9thsphinx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Ahmedabad
Posts: 1,043
Thanked: 438 Times
Default Re: Skoda Superb DSG 7 Speed DQ200 failures- China gets official reaction, why not In

While the 7 speed DQ200 have been a lingering problem for VW, they're already developing a new 10-speed DSG which may work its way for their entire fleet of vehicles in the future. Could that be the future replacement of their faulty 7 speed boxes? Only time will tell.

But as of now, this callous attitude from VW toward this specific problem speaks quite a lot for a company that plans on overtaking GM to be the No.1 Auto company in the world. Unfortunately, for them, this way they won't any sooner.
9thsphinx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DSG Mechatronics Failures: Are we driving them wrongly? SS-Traveller Technical Stuff 140 25th May 2015 12:48
Black Lightning: My Skoda Superb 1.8 TSI DSG-UPDATE: DSG box replaced! Swanand Inamdar Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 130 10th September 2012 13:01
'07 Skoda Superb: Repeat Transmission Failures. In workshop for 3 months mudittandon Technical Stuff 23 28th September 2010 17:41


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 14:52.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks