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Old 29th May 2012, 11:42   #1
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Default Skoda Superb DSG 7 Speed DQ200 failures- China gets official reaction, why not India?

When i drove the Skoda Superb for the first time, i could not believe they were actually offering so much for a price tag lower than 20 lakh rupees, the car is talented enough to compete with most 40 lakh rupee cars. The best selling variant and the most sensibly price variant 1.8 TSI with 7 Speed DSG comes at a very good price. Priced few lakhs cheaper than the Diesel variant, this variant is good enough to confuse most Diesel buyers into buying Petrol variant.

But i still do not recommend this variant at all, not even to my enemies. Reason: Ask thousands of struggling owners who face multiple gearbox failures every year. This particular 7 Speed DSG gearbox is known to fail and the failure rate is extremely high in India. Even on Team-BHP we have countless discussions on this, and a long list of owners who have faced/ are facing this problem. Thanks to our country's non existent consumer laws and absence of any automotive regulatory authority like the NHSTA in United States, Skoda has not offered a recall or any other kind of relief package to its customers.

Links to a few ownership threads discussing this failure:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2787300

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ced-skoda.html (New Skoda Superb 2009 Breakdown. EDIT : Car being replaced by Skoda)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...se-closed.html (Skoda Superb 2009 - 1st car replaced, 2nd Seized - Rs. Refunded now - Case Closed!)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2498688 (The Yeti® writes a car story - (and review of Skoda Superb))

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post2785096


VW China has apologized to its Chinese customers for the problems they faced with this particular gearbox. In China, they have agreed to extend the warranty to 10 year / 1,60,000 kms. Earlier VW refused this but now they have taken this steps after recommendation from the Chinese department concerned- The General Administration of Quality Supervision, Inspection and Quarantine's (AQSIQ) Defective Products Management Center . VW is offering similar 10 year warranty to its North American customers, my question is why this step motherly treatment to Indian customers? http://autonews.gasgoo.com/china-new...x-120525.shtml

Good thing is this trouble prone gearbox(DQ200) is offered only in a single variant of only one car in whole VW group here in India. While Skoda has offered this gearbox from day one in the new Superb, VW stayed away from this gearbox. This might be one of the reasons why Passat does not come with a TSI engine, even the previous gen Passat which had the TSI engine came only with a manual transmission.

Worldwide, the DQ200 DSG 7 speed transmission is used for FWD cars in VW group with torque output lower than 250 nm of Torque, this is the maximum amount of torque this gearbox can handle. This dry type gearbox is slightly more efficient than the wet type 6 speed DSG. VW even has issued special instructions in Owner's manual for some cars, here are special instructions for DSG 7 dry type in Golf GT:
Quote:
The 7-speed dual clutch gearbox can, for example, become too hot when the vehicle pulls off regularly, long periods of "crawling speed" or stop and go traffic. The overheating of the gearbox is indicated by the warning lamp and possibly also by a text in a combi-instrument display. An acoustic warning tone may also be heard. Stop the vehicle and allow the gearbox to cool down.

- If you stop the vehicle on a gradient, do not attempt to stop it from rolling back by depressing the accelerator when a gear has been selected. The automatic gearbox could overheat and be damaged.

- Never allow the vehicle to roll in position N, particularly if the ignition is switched off. The automatic gearbox will not be lubricated and could be damaged.
Some points to avoid confusion:
  • All the DSG gearboxes in VW and Skoda cars are shared, while Audi have a modified version of the DSG 'box to handle more torque.
  • Superb Diesel along with other Skoda and VW cars in India comes with a much more reliable DSG 6-speed wet type DQ250 transmission.
  • Audi's 7 speed S-tronic (DSG) DQ500 is a different transmission from the 7-speed DSG discussed here.
  • 4 years / 1,00,000 kms is the maximum warranty (extended, Skoda Shield) that can be had on the Skoda Superb in India.

Last edited by Rehaan : 29th May 2012 at 16:52. Reason: Typo
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Old 29th May 2012, 11:54   #2
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Default Re: Skoda Superb DSG 7 Speed DQ200 failures- Why no recall/extended warranty for Indi

I would like to quote myself from manson's thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by F150 View Post

I think it is about time SKODA offered a standalone warranty on DSG valid for atleast 5 years, if they are really serious about using the latest technology in their cars,without burdening/looting the customer for the repairs after the expiry of skoda shield or the standard warranty.

If SKODA cannot give warranty on their DSG for 5 years, it indicates that the company itself doesn't believe that DSG gearboxes will work trouble free for 5 yrs.
And also extended warranty to the existing impacted customer.

This is what we need, not sponsoring Satyameva Jayate or giving away free skoda logos/emblems to customers in Mumbai.

May be all the owners can file a PIL.

Last edited by F150 : 29th May 2012 at 11:56.
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Old 29th May 2012, 11:55   #3
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Default Re: Skoda Superb DSG 7 Speed DQ200 failures- Why no recall/extended warranty for Indi

I believe the law or lack of it is one of the reasons why these manufacturers take us for granted. If we had an effective "lemon" law, we would be seeing a lot more recalls and full responsibility taken by these manufacturers. Even when there is a clear-cut evidence (as in the case of harish & varun roy), the so-called consumer courts take their own time and are scared to pass a judgement because it might set a precedent.
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Old 29th May 2012, 12:06   #4
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Default Re: Skoda Superb DSG 7 Speed DQ200 failures- Why no recall/extended warranty for Indi

Not all manufacturers take us for granted. We do have some manufacturers who have had product recalls here in India. Way back in 2007 when I purchased Swift Diesel, mine was from an initial lot that had ECU issue. Maruti recalled my car and replaced the ECU.They also provided a free checkup and Wash for the trouble taken by the customer to come to the service center. All this within 2 months of the product launch when the car was selling like hot cakes.

I think this is another big reason why we don't recommend Skoda on this forum. In my view they are most unethical of the lot.
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Old 29th May 2012, 12:21   #5
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Default Re: Skoda Superb DSG 7 Speed DQ200 failures- Why no recall/extended warranty for Indi

This question was raised to Autocar India in their AAA(Ask Autocar Anything) section by a potential buyer few months back.Autocar quoted that there was an "Electrical Surge" in VW plant which caused damage to the gearbox units.But now they have rectified it.
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Old 29th May 2012, 13:13   #6
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Exclamation Re: Skoda Superb DSG 7 Speed DQ200 failures- Why no recall/extended warranty for Indi

The only way of addressing the concern and making Skoda India to respond would be the unity of the affected and current Superb owners having the 7speed gearbox, forming an association and filing a law suit in the consumer court highlighting the repeated recurrence and the inordinate delay in the manufacturer resolving the problem in the respective vehicles.

The law suit must seek the attention of the media and create general awareness . Once the magnitude of the situation is this high, the manufacturer would be forced to respond.
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Old 29th May 2012, 13:24   #7
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Default Re: Skoda Superb DSG 7 Speed DQ200 failures- Why no recall/extended warranty for Indi

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
When i drove the Skoda Superb for the first time, i could not believe they were actually offering so much for a price tag lower than 20 lakh rupees, the car is talented enough to compete with most
  • ion from the one discussed here.
  • 4 years/1,00,000 kms is the maximum warranty(extended, Skoda Shield) that can be had on the Skoda Superb.

Your post while specific to Skoda and a particular variant of DSG raises very a fundamental issue i.e. the lack of accountability of Auto companies to customers for selling the occasional lemon or deficient technology as the case maybe.

The lament is that the so called automotive journalists never ever highlight the lack of integrity in the auto companies . Whether this is due to a suitable quid pro quo or absolute lack of knowledge I leave for everyone else to draw their own conclusions.

If you think appropriate you could email the link to this thread to the Secretaries of MoHI and MoRTH, GOI under copy to various newspapers and tv news channels. In all probability you wont get a response, but then who knows somebody might see some news worthiness in this?
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Old 29th May 2012, 13:51   #8
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Default Re: Skoda Superb DSG 7 Speed DQ200 failures- Why no recall/extended warranty for Indi

@F150

Why five years mate, my Baleno is its seventh year of ownership and no one is even thinking about engine and gear box. If at all Skoda/VW is serious they should offer something that competes with Japanese reliability i.e. engine+gear box lasting over 1L Kms. This gives peace of mind not only to the first owner, but if the car is sold in the used market it give some peace of mind to the second owner as well.

Unless this is done these manufacturers will always be dud on the used car market, doing this will lift the used car sales as well.
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Old 29th May 2012, 14:01   #9
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Default Re: Skoda Superb DSG 7 Speed DQ200 failures- Why no recall/extended warranty for Indi

The owner base of this variant in India is very small, thus they are not a strong lobby group. Now VW is not offering this warranty in china due to goodwill or a soft heart. Its a decision based on economic realities. The negative publicity about step motherly treatment can hit their sales and impact bottom line.
However, in India, VW may believe that the cost of offering a 10 year warranty will not be less than cost of a few lost sales.
So its done a pinto analysis, and concluded that India does not need this extra warranty.
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Old 29th May 2012, 16:46   #10
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Default Re: Skoda Superb DSG 7 Speed DQ200 failures- Why no recall/extended warranty for Indi

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Now VW is not offering this warranty in china due to goodwill or a soft heart. Its a decision based on economic realities. The negative publicity about step motherly treatment can hit their sales and impact bottom line.
VW China the offered warranty and apology only after the Chinese Regulatory authority- The General Administration of Quality Supervision, Inspection and Quarantine's (AQSIQ) Defective Products Management Center's intervention. Similar thing happened in US where they recalled the cars only after NHSTA ordered them after a investigation.
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Old 29th May 2012, 16:58   #11
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Default Re: Skoda Superb DSG 7 Speed DQ200 failures- China gets official reaction, why not In

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
...In China, they have agreed to extend the warranty to 10 year / 1,60,000 kms...
Is this just for the DSG gearbox components, or for the entire car?

If its for the entire car, is it for all variants (/ models?), or just the DQ200 variants?

cya
R

PS - Every single 7-speed Superb owner i know has had a g'box failure!

Last edited by Rehaan : 29th May 2012 at 17:00.
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Old 29th May 2012, 19:02   #12
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Default Re: Skoda Superb DSG 7 Speed DQ200 failures- China gets official reaction, why not In

It's not only VW China, VW Malaysia and Singapore too have announced this on their official Facebook page:
Name:  vwservicecampaign630x334.jpg
Views: 26374
Size:  59.8 KB

and also this while answering a question on their FB page:
Quote:
Currently, the software supporting the 7-speed DSG may (in rare cases,) cause inefficient gear engagement. The software update will help to optimise gear shifting in the DSG for improved gear efficiency. As of yet, the update has not been known to cause any other problems.
___________________________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Is this just for the DSG gearbox components, or for the entire car?

If its for the entire car, is it for all variants (/ models?), or just the DQ200 variants?
The extended warranty is for gearbox only and the 6 speed owners too get the warranty. Apart from warranty the owners might be required to do some additional maintenance as per VW's recommendation. Let's wait for media to report the details.

Quote:
PS - Every single 7-speed Superb owner i know has had a g'box failure!
That's shocking!
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Old 29th May 2012, 19:59   #13
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Default Re: Skoda Superb DSG 7 Speed DQ200 failures- China gets official reaction, why not In

A few reasons I can think of:
  • As TSK mentioned, the ownership base. Probably the voice of the customer is not so strong enough for the manufacturer, and the authorities to react.
  • International visibility of the problem – for e.g.; DSG issues reported here in Singapore have a direct impact on the group’s reputation. The cars are imported directly from Germany/Mexico, and they have nowhere to hide. No wonder, they actually appointed a GM here in VW Singapore, specifically to address this matter.
  • China for VW is what India is for Suzuki. And to add-on, the country is known for its iron-fist on MNCs.
  • No recall policy, or strict rules for manufacturers to adhere to standards.
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Old 29th May 2012, 20:18   #14
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Default Re: Skoda Superb DSG 7 Speed DQ200 failures- China gets official reaction, why not In

China now has overtaken US as the country with maximum car sales.
So definitely have much more at stake there.

And couple it with the fact that Indian ownership base is small and law and its implementation are much more stricter in China.
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Old 29th May 2012, 20:55   #15
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Default Re: Skoda Superb DSG 7 Speed DQ200 failures- China gets official reaction, why not In

It is terribly disheartening to read this bit of news. With the automobile sector growing explosively for the past few years now, it is imperative that India has such a regulatory mechanism (like the American & Chinese bodies) that can put pressure on manufacturers to protect consumer safety/interest.
I'll digress a bit here.
I recall the way the Govt of India put pressure on RIM in the Blackberry security issue. So it can be done i.e. getting multinationals to play fair.
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