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Old 1st June 2012, 07:59   #76
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Default Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

I'm surprised to see how someone actually thought about justifying what these petrol pump owners are doing!!

It is not about how much money or % of petrol they cheat but it is about the ethics and act itself. We all are sure that no-one is out there to do charity so talking about making no profit after owning a petrol pump will be a joke. It is just about how much more they can earn from cheating the mass. They very well know that even 90% of the folks who go out to fill up gas know that they do not get 100% of what they are paying for but they are almost confident that not even 10% would make the effort to raise the voice against this open theft!


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Old 1st June 2012, 09:39   #77
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Default Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

aplang1 , very much impressive analysis presented.

Quote:
Originally Posted by akhilesh51 View Post

Calibration Adjustment: It is not 25 ml per 1000ml. It is not possible. As mentioned earlier in posts too, it is somewhere around 25ml per 5000ml and consistent fuel short supply over 15ml per 5000ml is noted in audit reports. IMHO, no dealer generally has calibration adjustment of over +- 10 ml per 5000ml or about 0.2%. While you may argue that a full 100% is your statutory right, and believe me it is, but it is difficult for anyone to expect such compliance in any industry. Have you ever measured the amount of cola in your 500ml bottle ? This is an evaporative liquid and some losses do occur and 0.2-0.3% is acceptable if not fully justified.
I had worked with L & T's petrol dispensing pump manufacturing division before, and i found your observations right. While testing prototypes of the petrol metering units, +- 10ml /per 5000ml is the tolerance level expected to be achieved. This is called as Drift in metering system (If I'm recollecting it right). During actual production each metering unit is calibrated two-three times and then those settings are locked by using manufacturer seal and given date and production batch code. Warranty of whole product is affected if Seal is tampered/damaged.

With the increase in use, drift in the metering unit increases(tending to dispense more fuel than actual) due to wear and tear of internal parts and unit needs to be re-calibrated after certain time. During re-calibration unit is adjusted on negative side (-3-10 ml) so that, error will be corrected after prolonged use.

So in this case, petrol pump owners get very less scope to play around with calibration.

One more thing to add : How many of you have come across the situation where you get the petrol in 1L empty cold-drink bottle (usually when your bike runs out of the fuel) and you actually get 1L in the bottle and at the same time petrol pump indicate displays 1L ?
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Old 1st June 2012, 11:11   #78
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Default Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinmechanic View Post
aplang1 , very much impressive analysis presented.
One more thing to add : How many of you have come across the situation where you get the petrol in 1L empty cold-drink bottle (usually when your bike runs out of the fuel) and you actually get 1L in the bottle and at the same time petrol pump indicate displays 1L ?
As already mentioned in my earlier post, I have done this several times. However, there is always one pump to which the guys direct me to. They simply do not agree to dispense fuel from any other pump! Isn't this something fishy?
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Old 1st June 2012, 12:30   #79
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Default Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

I was told that there is always an understanding between the measurement and calibration guys who comes from government to calibrate the machines on regular intervals. You have to shell out more to get more variations.
What i feel is it is always better to fill from company owned and operated pumps as those managing these pumps only get some sort of salary for managing the show and dont get any incentives for selling more fuel. So they are hardly bothered of the sales figures. I say this because my brother in law runs a pump.
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Old 1st June 2012, 12:36   #80
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Default Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Driving_Nomad View Post
As already mentioned in my earlier post, I have done this several times. However, there is always one pump to which the guys direct me to. They simply do not agree to dispense fuel from any other pump! Isn't this something fishy?
As far I know about not giving out Petrol in Bottles/Cans, i was told its more a security issue. Easier to do damage with Petrol if it were freely dispensed in bottles without any accountability. While putting it into a car/bike certainly does not put an end to it, it is a step towards ensuring it is not available for things other than to drive an engine. Ofcourse there is a lot more that can be done with Petrol in bottles than just make Petrol bombs, but then we're digressing too much.

About this whole thing about the way petrol pumps operate, I for one, never expected to get less than what I was being told I am getting ie. 1 liter on the machine=1 liter in my tank so this is definitely news to me. I never did think too much about how petrol pumps operated but i will have to more observant about this in the future, i guess.

Thank you for all the inputs, made for fantastic reading.
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Old 1st June 2012, 12:56   #81
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Default Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

Quote:
Originally Posted by ameaa View Post
I was told that there is always an understanding between the measurement and calibration guys who comes from government to calibrate the machines on regular intervals. You have to shell out more to get more variations.
people from the Department of weights & measures .. opportunities are available in every line of work
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Old 1st June 2012, 13:00   #82
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Default Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

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Originally Posted by Born 2 Be Wild View Post
Sadly our country cant and i think would never have self service pumps.
Self-service pumps would be cheaper to operate isn't it? Like an ATM for withdrawing money rather than taking a token & going to the cashier in a bank?
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Old 1st June 2012, 13:29   #83
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Default Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

Unfortunately, for the kind of vehicle population that we have, especially two wheelers, it would be impossible to have self-service pumps. Just imagine what would happen at a petrol pump if there is no attendant and you have a few vehicles in waiting.
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Old 1st June 2012, 14:16   #84
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Default Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

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Originally Posted by discoverwild View Post
Unfortunately, for the kind of vehicle population that we have, especially two wheelers, it would be impossible to have self-service pumps. Just imagine what would happen at a petrol pump if there is no attendant and you have a few vehicles in waiting.....
...and the government has just raised the price by x rupees. I am not too sure how many self serve petrol pumps will see the light of the next day

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Old 1st June 2012, 14:36   #85
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Default Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

How good are these electronic pumps? Can pump owners manupilate with that too?

In few posts I see people commenting about COCO pumps. I have my doubts as these COCO pumps are leased by the oil companies and hence the operations are under the control of the guy who has taken the pump under lease.
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Old 1st June 2012, 14:45   #86
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Default Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

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Originally Posted by pacman2881 View Post
.... COCO pumps are leased by the oil companies and hence the operations are under the control of the guy who has taken the pump under lease.
WHAT??? So, what does the second CO stand for? Carbon Monoxide? I always thought it meant Company Operated.

Somebody, please tell me pacman2881 is wrong

Rajan
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Old 1st June 2012, 15:02   #87
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Unhappy Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

Appreciate putting the details honestly.

But the contents looks like, it can be merged to our 'Fuel Pricing in India. Detailed Robbery Analysis.' thread.

Last edited by sarathlal : 1st June 2012 at 15:03. Reason: Removed the Bold font.
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Old 1st June 2012, 15:30   #88
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Default Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

aplang1 --Welcome to T-BHP and what a way to start your journey .Kudos to you on that.
However there are a few small changes I would like to add. the tanker is filled at very controlled and ambient temp (as far I know - Shell does this) and locked which is the best way to avoid evaporation losses. More so if you note tankers make it to the petrol pump station at either early morning or early night essnetially to avoid evaporation losses or keep them minimal. The underground tanks are well insulated and if you notice they are kept under shaded areas with a significantly huge space between the surface floor and the sump (underground tank) area. This is done to primarily maintain the temperature difference and allow cooling process to happen more easily.
Coming to the point of they selling 978ml Vs the 1000 ml --I would say experience is the best teacher and like SUPERUTP said --our Car FE is more than what we calculate.

This statement is not to state everyone is unfair and it is not intended that way also. However given the fact that many bunks are in the business for profit and not for social welfare it is evident that they do not make a loss on either side but rather stand to gain on both counts. However am yet to see a loss making petrol pump.

Fuel is a very volatile liquid (especially petrol ) it is most advisable to tank up in early morning before sunrise (Alas! not always possible) as petrol is at its highest density and you get very nearly what you are paying for and you can notice a evident difference in the weight of your car once you do this excerise as compared to tanking up at regular hours of the day.

Cheers
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Old 1st June 2012, 15:45   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ameaa
I was told that there is always an understanding between the measurement and calibration guys who comes from government to calibrate the machines on regular intervals. You have to shell out more to get more variations.
This is no longer the case it used to happen till about 2005 but now there is no malpractice in collusion with the W&M deppt. The machines are calibrated once every year or whenever they are repaired.


Quote:
Originally Posted by msdivy
Self-service pumps would be cheaper to operate isn't it? Like an ATM for withdrawing money rather than taking a token & going to the cashier in a bank?
Self service pumps would definately save on labour costs but sadly not all customers are civil enough to use self service pumps. There would most certainly be safety issues as well as pilfirage issues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pacman2881
How good are these electronic pumps? Can pump owners manupilate with that too?

In few posts I see people commenting about COCO pumps. I have my doubts as these COCO pumps are leased by the oil companies and hence the operations are under the control of the guy who has taken the pump under lease.
As on date all the new electronic pumps are tamper proof but theese are mostly in cities and metros smaller towns and pumps on highways still have the older ones.

80 % coco pumps are leased out to service providers or exisiting dealers for either a period of 11 months or 33 months and every city has about a couple of pumps which are purely company operated which the company calls it marquee pumps.
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Old 1st June 2012, 17:02   #90
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Default Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

Great thread Aplang1. Very informative. I have rated it five star.
In the end it is we, the customers who has to pay for the shrinkage. So if the pump meter says 1000 ml then let us as customers have the 1000 ml.
Let the oil companies and the weights and measures people put their heads together to control the situation by calculatung the losses thru evaporation etc and add that onto the price. This would be better than letting the pump dealer control he situation. The oil companies have a duty to the nation to ensure that all the petrol pumps are fitted with vapour retrieval systems to minimise losses and ensure a fair deal to an already overburdened customer population.
Regards,
Ashok
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