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Old 1st June 2012, 17:17   #91
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Default Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

IOC is currently running a pilot project in Delhi wherein on participating outlets one vend has been designated as a self service vend, though an attendent is available to assist. Came across this on the IOC pump near the IP Power station where it was termed a failure however, this has proved to be quite popular at the IOC pump next to the Essex farm on outer ring road on IIT crossing. The vend there is now being replaced by one that will accept CC payments right on the vend without having to walk down to the common cc machine.

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Originally Posted by Born 2 Be Wild View Post
Sadly our country cant and i think would never have self service pumps.

Also most machines nowadays are tamper proof


Could you please provide a list of "Marquee" pumps in Delhi NCR. Maybe for HPCL if not for the other OMCs. Thanks in advance.

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Originally Posted by Born 2 Be Wild View Post
every city has about a couple of pumps which are purely company operated which the company calls it marquee pumps.
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Old 1st June 2012, 17:25   #92
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Originally Posted by khoj

Could you please provide a list of "Marquee" pumps in Delhi NCR. Maybe for HPCL if not for the other OMCs. Thanks in advance.
1. Auto car care centre Hpcl . Niti marg chanakyapuri night next to the Ashoka

2. Auto car centre hpcl pitampura ring road right before the underpass, however this is gonna become dealer operated in a couple of months as the terminated dealer has won the litigation

3. B.p preet vihar Bpcl coco

Have no clue on iocl
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Old 1st June 2012, 17:56   #93
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Default Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

Check out this piece of news that came in a malayalam daily and was shared in Facebook. I am just translating the contents to you in brief..

<< This particular guy asked to top up his Activa. The Activa fuel tank is only 6 lts but the meter read 14 lts after filling up the tank. The petrol pump guys argued that his tank capacity is that much. He called up the police. The manager gave this explanation to the police. " The petrol pump storage was in reserve and after that when it was filled a lot of air also went inside the storage and so this air came out of the nozzle and increased the reading." The police asked the company officials to come and check it. However they did not reach even after waiting for long.

The news ends with the statement that suppose he had done the same in his car, he would have happily given the money and left since he would never know the exact quantity. Its only because he knew his tank was only 6 lts that he got to know of it. It also mentions that we should be careful while filling up and that we have the right to check the reading in managers computer to verify it. >>

Anybody heard of such things before??
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Old 1st June 2012, 18:41   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nettooran
Check out this piece of news that came in a malayalam daily and was shared in Facebook. I am just translating the contents to you in brief..

<< This particular guy asked to top up his Activa. The Activa fuel tank is only 6 lts but the meter read 14 lts after filling up the tank. The petrol pump guys argued that his tank capacity is that much. He called up the police. The manager gave this explanation to the police. " The petrol pump storage was in reserve and after that when it was filled a lot of air also went inside the storage and so this air came out of the nozzle and increased the reading." The police asked the company officials to come and

Anybody heard of such things before??
Well that can never happen the meters dont jump with air this is a clear case of cheating by the attendant he has not reset the metre after the last fill and started from where the last customer left.

The explanation given about air in storage tank is just bs by the manager to cover up what the attendant has done.
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Old 1st June 2012, 18:43   #95
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Default Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

Quote:
Originally Posted by nettooran
Check out this piece of news that came in a malayalam daily and was shared in Facebook. I am just translating the contents to you in brief..
Interesting. And yes, this might be happening on so many cars without the owners of the car knowing they are being taken for a ride.
Ofcourse, this would be the attendants behind this mischief.

BTW, nice handle "nettooran". Inspiration being Nettoor Stephen ???

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 1st June 2012 at 18:45.
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Old 1st June 2012, 18:59   #96
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Default Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

A very insightful thread with some disturbing facts.

Legacy processes and practices which does not factor in all the operational losses is no excuse for rigging meters and shortchanging customers. Such a shame!
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Old 1st June 2012, 22:09   #97
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Default Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

Dear Bhpians, Thank you once again for your responses.
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For the members who might have missed my previous post, here is an old thread where tremendous knowledge has been shared by Dr. Bhatti who is a third generation petrol pump owner.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...-diesel-2.html (How to ascertain purity of Diesel)

The fact remains that companies are short-changing the dealers by not giving them compensation on account of temperature variation and the dealers tend to pass on the losses to the customer.

Also, I would once again add that the companies seriously need to look at Stage 1 and Stage 2 Vapour Recovery Systems in addition to automation of fuel outlets. These will benefit the end customer by both keeping the atmosphere less polluted and keeping the increasing fuel prices under check in the long run by preventing large scale losses.

Cheers!!
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Old 1st June 2012, 23:44   #98
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Unhappy Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

Average sales per day = 11730 / 2 = 5865 lts.
( Sales Should be 6 KL / day as the supply was for 12KL / 2 )
Average sales per month = 5865*30 = 175950 lts.
(i.e.Average sale should be 180 KL / month and the dealer pays the OIL company for 180 Kiloliters where as he sells only 175.95 KL)

1.REMAINING 4.05 Kiloliters of fuel which is being paid by pump owners has to be compensated in the dealer commission.

2.Look at the amount of capitalisation that would be required to store sufficient fuel.

Around 15 lakhs which has to stay in business and it more has to be capitalised if the price of the fuel increases.

Dealear Comission = 180000 * 1.5 = Rs. 2,70,000.00

After Expenses and Interest on working capital the dealer actually doesn't earn anything at all.

Its a poor business.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyBoy View Post
By your own calculations, lets us assume that only 11730 lts are supplied against 12000 lts.

Average sales per day = 11730 / 2 = 5865 lts.
Average sales per month = 5865*30 = 175950 lts.
Dealear Comission = 175950 * 1.5 = Rs. 2,63,925.00
Expenses = Rs. 1.75,950.00
Profit = Rs. 87,975.00
Tax @ 30% = Rs. 26,392.50.00
Take Home = Rs. 61582.50

Using your own example, the profit is Rs. 61582.50, by giving the customer 1000 ml per lt.

By giving 978 ml the profit, as per your calculations is Rs. 63,000.00

I do not see where the loss is. This my friend is cheating the unsuspecting customer to increase profits and not for staying in business. Loss of fuel due to evaporation is part and parcel of the business and is already factored in. Even if you gave the customer 1000 ml to the litre, the customer also subsequently loses some fuel due to this evaporation, doesn't he?

Every business has its own risks and rewards. Short-changing an unsuspecting customer is not acceptable, no matter what. Also, are you communicating that even the most trusted vendor recalibrates his meter to dipense 978 ml to the litre?

Rajan
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Old 2nd June 2012, 00:03   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aplang1

The fact remains that companies are short-changing the dealers by not giving them compensation on account of temperature variation and the dealers tend to pass on the losses to the customer.



Cheers!!
Yes dealers have been demanding to be billed for fuel that they recieve as per mass and not volume this practice is prvelant in europe and the states. However dealers are not passing the losses onto customers like you are time and again saying. No one has their machines or rigged to diapense as per your claims 22 ml per litre which amounts to about 110 ml per 5 litres.

The permissible limit is +\- 25 ml per 5 litres which everyone adheres to so stop making blanket statements. Atleast in delhi that is the case .

Yes the sales attendants do try and short change customers and that is something which any owner does not encourage.

And i am in noway related to all pump owners or on the payrolls of the omc but i can bet my reputation on the fact that adulteration or short delivery as we term it is not happening period at any delhi pump be it bpcl hpcl or iocl

Yes the staff at some places does cheat but that to only when the customers arent attentive or distracted .
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Old 2nd June 2012, 07:58   #100
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Default Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

Any cost incurred due operating inefficiency is eventually passed on the customer. But competition ensures firms work to remove such inefficiencies and provide more value (either reduce cost or increase quantity) to the customer.
But in this case, the selling price is fixed. Cost of procurement is more of less fixed. So there is no incentive for IOC, BP or HP to add value to customer.
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Old 2nd June 2012, 09:28   #101
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Default Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt.chandru View Post

After Expenses and Interest on working capital the dealer actually doesn't earn anything at all.

Its a poor business.
Wonder why/how they stay in business? Have you read the posts by other bunk owners? If not please do so.

270 lt per 12000 is exaggerated is the general consensus. I am sure no one in this business is doing it as a social service.

Rajan
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Old 2nd June 2012, 12:08   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatchyBoy



270 lt per 12000 is exaggerated is the general consensus. I am sure no one in this business is doing it as a social service.

Rajan
Very true no one can run a business like social service, no business sustains prolonged losses either. Also you cant merrily cheat your way through to cover losses.

Its a profitable business atleast in metros it is and where it aint they shut shop. The reason people are after the bunk business is only because this is the easiest way to convert your land use get a clu for agrcultural land and convert to commercial at the behest of a pump on highways.
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Old 2nd June 2012, 15:51   #103
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Default Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

Where does the evaporated petrol from tanker/underground tanker go? No where.

As far as I know, companies allow a 4 % evaporation losses ( presumed to occur while dispensing).

I have noticed many times that there is no shortage of quantity as I filled up in a used litre bottle. So, if there is something illegal, it must be like adulteration.
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Old 4th June 2012, 13:33   #104
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Default Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

Hi All,

My small inputs

I tried to go through all the posts but could not make it full.

I have worked with a company making fuel dispensers for 7 years (Still working) & here are some facts I know about

As per W&M (Weights & Measure the authority which makes sure that
the meter calibration is correct) allows +/- 0.5% Per delivery, but our
PSU (IOCL, BPCL, HPCL) asks for +25mL & -0mL in their tendors for
dispensers which makes sure that the customer always gets more by
25mL per delivery of 5 liters & 100mL for a delivery of 20 Liters & not
per liter.

"While Stamping as well as verifications the DU shall be as per specification of WM guidelines During verification both at vendors plant and retail outlet: Within +25 ml to 0 ml in a delivery of 5 litres and within +100 ml to 0 ml in a delivery of 20 litres, at delivery rates as per the Weights & Measurements latest notifications. "
"Metering unit shall be tested as per OIML R 118 - 1."

OIML R117 (Which is referred in R118) says max error per delivery is +/- 0.5%
"http://www.flowmeters.nl/files/download/21/R117-1-e07.pdf" Page 20


To the best of my understanding frauds are done on all dispensers, in a small or big quantity.

The bike incident is, he has fueled some volume to other vehicle, then this one's turn came, he came & the fellow started fueling without reseting to 0. This is a most common practice on dispensers which are specific for bikes (In mumbai they are specially allocated), you have a long queue & mostly people dont go for tank full, so a small delivery of 50 or 100 Rs is given & may be added on next if the next one is not so watch full. At times they do this on cars as well. And that's the exact reason there are warnings saying Ensure 0 before delivery, but normally we do not get out of our car & tend to look the reading at the end of delivery.

It is always better to open a fuel tank lid & switch off your car & get down without telling the attendant what to fill in. By the time you get down, the attendant opens the fuel cap and all the pressurized air moves out of your tank. Then you tell him what you want to fill your car with & then you have enough time to check the meter for 0. This time he will make sure that he shows 0 as he knows that you are watching.

I have tried many times at many sites to make these tampering stop. As a dispenser manufacturer there is a error given if a nozzle is lifted, fueled and in halt for more than X seconds the delivery is terminated. This is set able value because for diesel this break is required, but for petrol it becomes a tool to make fraud. Unfortunately the PSU does not ask for Petrol & Diesel dispensers as the construction is suitable for both & it is left to attendants, dealer & the service engineers to decide what should be the value & that the lobby.

Best to buy is COCO (Company Owned & Company Operated) at morning.

Almost all the outlets which we see as CODO (Company Owned Dealer Operated), so look for COCO.


At any outlet you can demand the check for quantity & they will show a delivery of 5 Liters in a CAN, you can also check its Buoyancy (only rule is you have to buy that 5 liters if its correct).

Make sure you see the W&M seal for date of calibration of the CAN as the outlet keeps 2 CANS one for calibration & one for people to check.

But we do not have this much time so better to stick to COCO.

I hope it adds some value to this thread.
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Old 4th June 2012, 14:24   #105
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Default Re: The Petrol Pump Story - How Petrol Pumps Operate

How can this be justified? Similar incident to the one posted above about Activa.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post2797855 (Volkswagen Vento : Test Drive & Review)

If this petrol pump owner is cheating customers at this rate, he should definitely be banned?

Regards,
Aniket
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