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Old 13th April 2017, 20:59   #646
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

First Hand Experience
Today morning itself I was stopped by the cops in New Delhi, initially he checked all the documents and then clicked a pic of my car and told me that I have to pay a challan for blocking the visibility. Although the challan wasn't done after I requested and co-operated, but here are some excerpts from the conversation I had with him:

Me: But these aren't sunfilm, they are magnetic sunshades.

Cop: Doesn't matter, if I am unable to look what's going on inside the car, it is illegal. Even if it's a handkerchief or some cloth.

Me: But many cars come with roll up-down down sun screens. And supreme court has only banned the sunfilms.

Cop: Why? crime can't be done behind this thing? Anything that blocks the visibility is illegal and can be fined.

Me: But supreme court has given that ruling.

Cop: Let me fine you, I have picture of your car in my phone (Like we click of other offenders). You are free to go to court, many have gone against me in past, all were fined. Now don't tell me what the law is, go and check yourself.

Me: Thank you.

What I concluded after talking to him:
  • Anything that obstructs the visibility is illegal, no matter what it is.
  • If you are allowed to use sun blinds, it is the courtesy and not a legal right. The cop told it to me loud and clear.
  • No matter what, you better drive without these shades while it's dark.
  • You may feel the heat without the shades, the cop standing under direct sun feels it more than you and is not having a very cool mind too. Better don't try to tell him what the law is, he knows it better.

Later I checked for what the ruling was, here I found something interesting:
Quote:
"No black film or any material can be pasted on the windscreens or side glasses of a vehicle," the bench said, imposing a complete ban on plastic films in unambiguous terms.
Source

Some will say that the magnetic sun shades aren't pasted on the glass and hence are legal. Well, the cop had a clear reasoning that if anything else replaces the sunfilms and obstructs his visibility, it is any ways aiding the criminals and hence is illegal. I personally found his reasoning quite valid.

So my suggestion is: Until it's under tolerance limits, there is no legal alternative to the sunfilms. If a cop stops you and try to fine you for the same. Better apologize and take the shades off with a request not to fine you and assurance to not use them again. If you will try telling him what the law is, you will be fined - that's for sure.
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Old 14th April 2017, 07:28   #647
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

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Originally Posted by VKumar View Post
Until it's under tolerance limits, there is no legal alternative to the sunfilms.
Outside of what the manufacturer supplies with the car - which has to be in legal compliance or the RTO won't register a new car - there is no such thing as "tolerance limits". Legally, these limits are zero and any after market addition is illegal.
There are no legal alternatives to sun films. And given the wide leeway given to auto manufacturers to install glare, heat and UV control, there is no ground for the SC order to be modified. Auto companies are allowed to have front and rear glass visibility as low as 70%, and 50% for the side windows. That gives them all the scope needed to implement the necessary technologies.
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Old 14th April 2017, 12:54   #648
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

Quote:
Originally Posted by VKumar View Post
First Hand Experience
Today morning itself I was stopped by the cops in New Delhi, initially he checked all the documents and then clicked a pic of my car and told me that I have to pay a challan for blocking the visibility. Although the challan wasn't done after I requested and co-operated, but here are some excerpts from the conversation I had with him:
If a Cop stops you, mind you he will look for anything that he can use against you. So no matter what SC says, films or shades,he will fine you. So better try and calm him down and try not to get challan and make peace with him

Mod Note: Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers.

Last edited by Rudra Sen : 18th April 2017 at 12:37.
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Old 17th April 2017, 15:27   #649
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

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Originally Posted by Nohonking View Post
Well, it depends on the place you are driving as well as the traffic cop eyeing at you.
===========
Let the picture speak the rest. Thanks.
Are these the ones you are using?
http://www.ebay.in/itm/4pcs-Oval-Ele...4AAOSwImRYSAVz

http://www.ebay.in/itm/Shine-Shade-P...YAAOSw44BYEePR

http://www.ebay.in/itm/4-PC-High-Eff...QAAMXQlgtS~eJC
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Old 18th April 2017, 12:49   #650
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
And given the wide leeway given to auto manufacturers to install glare, heat and UV control, there is no ground for the SC order to be modified. Auto companies are allowed to have front and rear glass visibility as low as 70%, and 50% for the side windows. That gives them all the scope needed to implement the necessary technologies.
This is the key issue. Auto manufacturers would rather give glare/ IR/ UV cut/ tinted glasses only on top variants as features rather than understanding the dilemma of customers and provide in all vehicles/ variants.

My sources in Auto & Glass industry tell me that it doesn't cost more than Rs. 5000 per vehicle for such IR/ UV cut/ tinted glasses (I didn't got info about anti-glare ones). Also, there is no capacity constraint to produce the same. But the bean counters are just using this necessary inclusion to enhance the proposition of higher variants.

Its needless to highlight, still I am, that use of such glasses will reduce the heat load on car ACs and reduce fuel consumption. Lower fuel consumption means lower emissions and cleaner environment. Also, since fuel (crude oil) is an imported commodity, the overall import bill can also be reduced.

Given all these benefits, I wonder if it is possible to petition SC to modify its earlier order (or issue altogether new order) to make such glasses mandatory on all vehicles ??
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Old 18th April 2017, 13:24   #651
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

Hi ronello,

Yes, good job with your search, you are spot on. These are the ones I am using (the only difference being their shape and size). But as you can figure out, there is a difference in price for the very same product. So, you may chose the one where you find the most value for money.

My 2 cents: They are illegal to use in India, but the most viable solution to put on and off and taking a risk on your own accord to avoid any trouble from the cops while letting effectively to cut the sun at other times. A must have.

On the other note, tinting in any flavor just been banned, I really feel it as a "one size fit all" punishment for all. With the temperature souring each year to new heights, I am eagerly waiting for someone to file an petition against it. Even on the medical grounds, too much exposure to sun (UV rays) is dangerous. Hoping for some favorable news sooner than later.

Cheers,
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Old 18th April 2017, 16:28   #652
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

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Originally Posted by AutoNoob View Post
This is the key issue. Auto manufacturers would rather give glare/ IR/ UV cut/ tinted glasses only on top variants as features rather than understanding the dilemma of customers and provide in all vehicles/ variants.

My sources in Auto & Glass industry tell me that it doesn't cost more than Rs. 5000 per vehicle for such IR/ UV cut/ tinted glasses (I didn't got info about anti-glare ones). Also, there is no capacity constraint to produce the same. But the bean counters are just using this necessary inclusion to enhance the proposition of higher variants.
... ... ...
That's interesting, thank you. But think again about the cost: Rs.5,000 is a huge amount at the materials level of building a car, where even a paise is going to count. As a cost to the manufacturer, it is multiplied by the huge number of vehicles. And the end-cost to the consumer is going to multiplied several times.

But, as I probably said, my Polo GT TDI has tinted glass. OK, top of the range (apart from the celestial GTI!) and I wonder how far down the range this feature goes.

UV... I don't think we have any worries: don't all car windscreens block UV? Hence photochromic glasses do not work in the car.

If you feel like it, perhaps you'd like to "interview" your trade contacts and post a thread about car glass, issues and possibilities? It would be very interesting.

(I didn't search: maybe we have one)
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Old 19th April 2017, 07:06   #653
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

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UV... I don't think we have any worries: don't all car windscreens block UV? Hence photochromic glasses do not work in the car.
I doubt that is the reason they don't work; I think it is because they need sunlight to fall on them to go dark and that does not happen inside the car. There is an easy way to check this by keeping them on the dash where the sun does fall on them to see if they react, that I haven't tried.
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Old 19th April 2017, 08:06   #654
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

Having been through it all - having dark sun-films, going for lighter ones, being caught by cops and cop-tears-the-film, I got the side glasses coated with the spray from Fumin Japan, and done by Mahesh who I met through TBHP.

http://fumin.jp/business_en/index.html

As per the link, the coating is said to cut UV by 90%, IR by 70% yet retain VLT @ 80%.

There is a reduction in the heat comparable to sun-film, but please do not expect a magical reduction in the heat inside the car.

This type of product has been tried earlier and we also have a thread on TBHP. Let me try to dig that out. I will also post some pics of the work.
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Old 19th April 2017, 14:11   #655
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
I doubt that is the reason they don't work; I think it is because they need sunlight to fall on them to go dark ...
No, it is specifically UV light that makes photochromic lenses darken. That's how they work.

There are now for-driving lenses which react to visible light. Although I don't thin that the optician that I spoke to last week is entirely right in saying "not yet available in India," I could not get them when I tried. And they are made by Essilor, which is the lens brand that that optician sells.
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Old 19th April 2017, 15:59   #656
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

Even so, I suspect it needs UV light to fall on the lens. They won't go dark enough if you are in a balcony looking out at the sun, for instance, as they would if you were standing in the sun. So I am not sure that any lens will go dark enough in reflected light inside a car, be it UV or visible, even where the glass does not cut any UV. Or if the lenses react to visible light. The only thing that works for driving is sunglasses, which is always a bit of a challenge for people needing prescription glasses; the sunglasses need to have that as well.

That's been my experience, at any rate. I gave up on photo lenses a decade ago, so there is that.
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Old 19th April 2017, 19:37   #657
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Default Re: Legal Alternatives to Sun Film

My photochromatic lenses do turn slightly darker when driving in the sun with 3M SP70 on the front windshield. So I guess some amount of UV is getting through both the windshield glass and the sunfilm. Noticed while driving towards the sun and most likely isnt from light coming though the side windows which dont have any film
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Old 19th April 2017, 20:12   #658
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My photochromatic lenses do turn slightly darker when driving in the sun with 3M SP70 on the front windshield.
And my wife's do, too, in the Polo with tinted glass. Yes, some UV light gets through, and seems to have a slight effect. But years back, even before Sawyer gave up on photochromics, my experience was that they would go fully dark in the car. But not now.
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Old 20th April 2017, 07:19   #659
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Be that as it may, it is no reason for auto companies to fail to fully exploit what is legally and technically possible to provide glare, heat and UV protection inside their cars. For comfort and for fuel saving via reduced AC loads. Or even for saving some money by installing a lower capacity AC unit to make up for the higher cost of the glass.

And perhaps one day, a car designed for places where the sun does shine, will have less of a glass house that is open to it from every angle.

Sunfilms would then be both illegal and unnecessary. Except for privacy seekers:-)
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Old 20th April 2017, 14:12   #660
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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
Be that as it may, it is no reason for auto companies to fail to fully exploit what is legally and technically possible to provide glare, heat and UV protection inside their cars. ... ... ...
Then you must vote with your wallet when buying.

But, although my car does come with tinted glass, I have a hunch that they have cut down on the roof insulation
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