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Old 16th June 2012, 17:28   #16
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Default re: Why this Kolaveri for the Indian Car Industry?!!

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
What about people who do not have a car & want to buy one?
And what does it still have to do with what he and I said?
If someone needs a car, they'll buy it or weigh their reasons and the market conditions, and decide accordingly.

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I thought that his point was that it's OK for the govt to not have auto-industry friendly policies till the time the infrastructure improves - or did you get something else from it?
No.
I believe he's talking about improving infrastructure, about our (country's) capacity on handling the traffic concentration/parking space/pollution. It's not a option A or option B case, both can be kept in consideration.

Anyway, let him revert to any more of your concerns on his post. IMO it might be better to give more priority on the above aspects as compared to auto industry.

Last edited by ninjatalli : 16th June 2012 at 17:35.
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Old 16th June 2012, 17:49   #17
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Default re: Why this Kolaveri for the Indian Car Industry?!!

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Who can comment with FACTS about Chinese car scene wrt to the Govt and its policies? Is it true (IIRC) there are more than 500 car makers? Is it encouragement and red carpet for innovators there viz-a-viz in our country?
Red carpet? They are more like daylight robberies of the R&D done by the foreign auto manufacturers.
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Old 16th June 2012, 18:43   #18
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Default re: Why this Kolaveri for the Indian Car Industry?!!

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Providing a means of transportation in a country with pathetic public transport infrastructure
Exactly, It would be understandable if the government would create a dedicated fund for the development of urban infrastructure like metros and a better connected transit system for daily commuters. But that seems like a long shot at this point. Till then buying a small fuel efficient diesel car is the only option for an average income family.


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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Sales levels, already suffering, will further crash. There will be a severe fall in the demand of diesel cars
I am sure you thought of this point almost immediately after you read about the additional tax, so why cant the government. We can expect brash decisions from normal people in their day to day life, but when people are running a large economy like India; i think a little more thought should be given before passing policies which will effect a lot of other industries other than petrol/diesel car sales...

P.S. after the news of this ridiculous policy, we abandoned our plans to buy a new innova. +1 to the huge list of people who did the same across the country.
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Old 16th June 2012, 19:39   #19
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Default re: Why this Kolaveri for the Indian Car Industry?!!

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Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
I believe he's talking about improving infrastructure, about our (country's) capacity on handling the traffic concentration/parking space/pollution. It's not a option A or option B case, both can be kept in consideration.
At this point this sounds like wishful thinking. This current government every year has underperformed and lagged in building roads and highways when compared to the NDA government. Call it corruption, lethargy that is just one aspect of it. Look at the state of public transportation. It is halfway through 2012 and the A grade cities apart from Delhi are struggling to get a decent public transportation system like the metro/subway in place. In almost all these A grade cities on an average folks spend at least 1-2 hours one way to get to work. We should have continued with the same frenetic pace of building infrastructure or even faster to be in a state where we could have dealt with the churn in the world economy now. It does look like we are staring down the barrel of a gun now given the state we are. The kind of private debt overhang all over the world things look pretty bleak.
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Old 16th June 2012, 20:15   #20
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Default re: Why this Kolaveri for the Indian Car Industry?!!

The thing is, in our country, there is no vision, mission, goal or a plan. Even if there is one, it exists only in paper.

There is no governance, but only ad hocism. And corruption and nepotism takes care of the rest.
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Old 16th June 2012, 22:42   #21
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Default re: Why this Kolaveri for the Indian Car Industry?!!

What we really don't need in 2014 is another fractured verdict which will require whichever Government-to-be to follow 'coalition dharma' with small ambitious regional parties which will in turn demand more hand in decision making, more say in policy matters and more ministerial berths in return for their continued support. End result: a placid please-all Government - UPA, NDA, it doesn't matter.

Oh and to those who didn't vote in the last election: Well done! No really I am tired of begging my fellow countrymen to exercise their right to vote.
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Old 16th June 2012, 23:49   #22
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Default re: Why this Kolaveri for the Indian Car Industry?!!

I think the Indian auto industry is so mature now that it is difficult for a Government to murder or attempt to murder the sector.

Petrol price hike?
Diesel car tax levies?

These will strangle growth for a year or two. But after that, it should bounce back. People might delay purchase of cars or buy a smaller home or re-allocate their finances to account for higher initial costs (diesel) or running costs (petrol) of cars.

But the show will go on.
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Old 17th June 2012, 00:54   #23
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Default re: Why this Kolaveri for the Indian Car Industry?!!

So far I am yet to come across a businessman who is happy, no matter what the state of the economy. They always complain. They always want more sops, more benefits. Every loss in sale is attributed to the government. Every increase in profit is attributed to the top management's efforts.

Ask these questions.
  1. Why has the Indian automotive industry not looked beyond Petrol / Diesel or to some extent even CNG / LPG? Where is the emphasis on alternative fuels? Fossil fuels won't last forever. Instead of complaining, make this an opportunity and bring in vehicles that run on alternate fuels.
  2. What justifies the premium charged by Indian automotive companies on diesel variants of their cars? In Europe, both variants cost roughly the same. The companies did not complain as long as the diesel-petrol price differential allowed them to charge the ridiculous premium. But the government decides to discourage diesel cars through its policies and they start crying.
GTO, the Kolaveri Di is not for the Indian Car Industry. It is the Indian Car Industry's lack of foresight that has brought things to this pass.
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Old 17th June 2012, 03:25   #24
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Lightbulb re: Why this Kolaveri for the Indian Car Industry?!!

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Originally Posted by lucifer1881 View Post
the Kolaveri Di is not for the Indian Car Industry. It is the Indian Car Industry's lack of foresight that has brought things to this pass.
True.its no secret that tech-wise Indian offerings are way behind their videshi counterparts.instead of blaming the government about high fuel prices and high taxation. why don't we blame the auto industry for dragging their age-old products in the Indian market?

Where are our multiair engines?or our hybrids? shouldn't the auto industry be aiming to get their vehicles more fuel efficient(with tech that they already have and are using abroad) instead of expecting the government to subsidize fuel?

The general sentiment in this thread is that the automobile corporations are the good guys and the goverment is the bad guy.seriously?
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Old 17th June 2012, 05:25   #25
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Default re: Why this Kolaveri for the Indian Car Industry?!!

While on one hand Government is clueless on how to handle, this economic situation and is short of ideas, the manufacturers haven't helped either. I remember at least two budgets when the excise duty was reduced by government and everyone including me were hoping the car prices will go down. Soon enough manufacturers across the board increased the prices eating away any decrease in prices that would have come about.

So the government lost some revenue, hoping the benefit will go to the customer, but rather it went into someone Else's pocket. Not a very positive sign of the industry as a whole.

So much so that once the finance minister had to specifically say about this and request/urge the manufacturers not to increase prices when excise duty was reduced.

So in my view where everyone is trying to milk the situation as per their advantage, soon enough we would reach a point when the customers starts walking away (and we are already seeing trend of that), and both the government and the manufacturers are to be blamed for this situation.

PS: Irrespective of opinions and views its a excellent topic to put some thoughts on, and listen to differing views. Excellent thread GTO.

Last edited by mayankjha1806 : 17th June 2012 at 05:29.
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Old 17th June 2012, 07:29   #26
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Default re: Why this Kolaveri for the Indian Car Industry?!!

No doubt the Government is trying to milk whatever they can from anyone & everyone. They are coming up with newer proposals everyday (yesterday's paper contained a proposal about levying parking fees for parking cars in front of your house or in service lane). It's not only the auto sector only which is suffering, almost every sector is going through it, but I will also blame the Auto Companies for this mess. World over we have lobbies for a sector which try to garner as many goodies as possible for their sector but here in India, the Auto Sector is divided & and they are doing a game of one upmanship. Our Auto Sector has Petrol Lobby, Diesel Lobby, European Lobby, Japanese Lobby & Indian Lobby. All that these lobbies do is spoil the other manufacturer's efforts. That's why the Politicians are taking advantage of this and doing whatever they want. First the Auto Industry has to be united themselves and then they can take on the Government for rational pricing of fuels and taxes on cars.

The Auto Sector should work as one and try to build pressure on the Government to reduce taxes on cars. Saw on NDTV that taxes constitute around 70-80% of a car's price. So a car costing 10L is sold for 17-18L in the market. It's the Government's policies which have resulted in the lop sided sales and prefrence for Diesel Cars and instead of correcting their mistakes, they can't just go and impose additional taxes & duties on them. If that happens, Auto Companies will have huge Diesel Car Inventories too.

At the end of the day, the problem with the country is not that there's enough money or resources, the real problems are High Taxation & Corruption. The Government needs to deal with them as raising Prices & Taxes further on cars and Petrol & Diesel will be only rubbing salt into the wounds of customers. There has to be a balance with GDP Growth, Burden on Consumers, Inflation, Taxes and Incentives for Industries, when there's no balance we end up in the situation we are in. As they say, making progress or growth is very easy but sustaining that growth is very difficult & our Present Government has completely failed in that respect.
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Old 17th June 2012, 08:31   #27
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Default re: Why this Kolaveri for the Indian Car Industry?!!

Industry and business are milch cows for politicians of every hue. Politicians of every party, whether in government or opposition, try to extract their pound of flesh. They think that all businessmen and industrialists are minting money, the evidence of the recession to the contrary.
The problem is that the general public has been brainwashed by Nehruvian ideas and equates profits to evil. Polliticians are experts at exploiting public sentiment, that is why the subsidies and other policies that are making the economy suffer. Politicians of every hue have seen that they need populist policies to survive, the economy be damned, the nation be damned.
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Old 17th June 2012, 09:23   #28
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Default re: Why this Kolaveri for the Indian Car Industry?!!

I don't feel that govt can do or implement the diesel tax. Govt policies are for the industrialists and business people, and not for common man. So, once biggies like M&M, tata etc start negotiating this with govt, this will slowly vanish.

As someone mentioned, the need is public transport, reduce the private usage of fuel to some extent.

Eventhough the diesel vehicle use in private cars is less % now, the increase in that percentage is alarming. So, in a couple of years, this may out huge burden on the subsidy pattern.
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Old 17th June 2012, 12:38   #29
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Default re: Why this Kolaveri for the Indian Car Industry?!!

Yeah, the car industry is facing the brunt of the govt's adhoc policies, knee jerk reactions, and the various ills of the subsidy regime!

The govt should look to bolster infrastructure, including roads and public transport, and provide incentives to make India an auto manufacturing powerhouse in the region and then at world scale
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Old 17th June 2012, 18:22   #30
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Default re: Why this Kolaveri for the Indian Car Industry?!!

Frankly I have lost all hope regarding the point of view that things will improve. I see some people have suggested that public transport needs to improve. Even I want that and I think that might be a solution but I do not know how that is going to happen in Mumbai. I have been using buses/trains for quite some time now and I think improving them is simply not an option. All services are running on full capacity. You will get relatively empty buses/trains only after 10pm or before 8am (Sometimes even this does not happen!).

Off late I am seeing that everyone is really fed up of this government. I cannot think of even one good thing this government has done - of course this is also because I see only what comes on television. I do not want to blame Congress/BJP because I think we all are the part of the problem. I think the best thing would be to learn some Yoga or patience building acts so that you get the strength to endure all of this. Some times I feel helpless when I have to travel from one place to another. Driving through this traffic makes me mad. Going by rickshaw is possible only if you are lucky and you agree to the terms and conditions of the rickshaw wallah. Things become worse during monsoons. I have become short tempered and get irritated when in the morning I do not get a rickshaw to go the nearest station.

Anyways coming back to the topic is there anything we can do? I mean suppose we are the government what could we do? Note that the government has to take decisions not just thinking about the auto industry but also its impact on other industries/macro effects.
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