Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 1st December 2014, 19:37   #211
BHPian
 
civic-sense's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 679
Thanked: 710 Times
Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
I read you talked about taxes in the first post as well. I'm saying that is not the right way to do it. Its like adding taxes on cigarette. Does it help?
Without even citing an analogy, I am sure that taxing diesel cars would bring down sales. Diesel cars sell more because it is cheaper to run in the long run. If that advantage is brought down, sales would drop.

On second thoughts (or maybe just to keep the diesel crowd amused), how about reducing taxes on petrol cars instead?
civic-sense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2014, 19:47   #212
Senior - BHPian
 
Reinhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,118
Thanked: 1,170 Times
Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
Without even citing an analogy, I am sure that taxing diesel cars would bring down sales. Diesel cars sell more because it is cheaper to run in the long run. If that advantage is brought down, sales would drop.

On second thoughts (or maybe just to keep the diesel crowd amused), how about reducing taxes on petrol cars instead?
Well I'm not too optimistic to be very honest. We - the people of India - have plenty money. Taxes never really bothered us much when going big on cars.

A diesel car already costs more than 150k Rs. over its petrol counterpart in some cars. Did that ever deter the buyers from buying the Swift? So its not really the saving by diesel. I don't think many of the users really recover so much by saving on fuel to warrant the 1lakh + premium already demanded by diesels.
It also has to do with the performance - torque & fun with turbo.

The good move is that diesel is deregulated. That is the way to go. I hope the next step is to tighten the emission norms. Bring in BS5 and BS6 quickly. Don't bend against the pressure from auto-makers. If that raises fuel price - it is absolutely fine. But then - it will directly help mother nature to breathe easier compared to costlier cars with taxation. At least thats what I think. I never saw anyone turning back on a Furtuner because the tax + RTO is a lot.

Additionally - A lot of us - the educated lot - are very keen towards CNG. Me included. It is greener, cleaner & a lot more efficient. Give me at least a few fuel stations where I can fill it up by waiting less than 30 minutes and I'll get a CNG car. There are literally NO stations to talk of. This is where the improvement is to be done if we are really willing to go green.

Last edited by Reinhard : 1st December 2014 at 19:53.
Reinhard is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 1st December 2014, 20:41   #213
Senior - BHPian
 
StarScream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Noida/Delhi
Posts: 1,247
Thanked: 632 Times
Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
First of all, I'm not at all promoting pollution. I'm totally IN for greener transport solutions. So please don't get me wrong. I'm trying to put a different perspective as I don't always like to agree with the West's decisions.

I read you talked about taxes in the first post as well. I'm saying that is not the right way to do it. Its like adding taxes on cigarette. Does it help?


There is no reason why we should always try to be in sync with the West. There are many more vital things in which we aren't.


Then do we need the V10/V12 Ferraris or Lamborghinis that the West makes and sells in huge numbers? Or the American gas guzzlers? If we are going to say that diesels are bad because the West is not using them - we should also look at what the west is using instead. Are their cars any greener by not using diesel? I'm pretty sure simply by gut feeling that the <1.6L diesels in India currently aren't far too worse than the ~2.5L or more cars used regularly in the US when we get the usage pattern + mileage + fuel consumption into consideration.


I agree - we must put the infrastructure in place for a greener diesel. If that raises the price - YES that is valid and must be paid by the customer. This is the right way to go. Not keeping the bad diesel and adding tax on cars. Tax doesn't make the planet greener is my point.


We agree 100% on it my friend .
That my friend was a googly! When did this become a east vs west argument from a petrol vs diesel one?

Just a few things here - I don't agree with the profligate ways of the west either. My original post was referring to what you say about diesel - people (Europeans) are discovering that their really isn't any way to scrub diesel emissions to completely remove its harmful effects (hence the "there is no such thing as clean diesel statement.")

Of course, in the end we agree, so all's well that ends well.
StarScream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2014, 16:58   #214
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 18
Thanked: 21 Times
Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

I just bought a Zest and was in the same dilemma whether to go for the petrol or diesel. I created this excel for a comparison. Diesel made more economic sense even after deregulation.
Note: The mileage I have put are very conservative and actual figures will be better.
Attached Files
File Type: xlsx petrol vs diesel.xlsx (9.8 KB, 766 views)
Sabyasworld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2014, 17:13   #215
BHPian
 
pareshraheja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 161
Thanked: 71 Times
Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabyasworld View Post
I just bought a Zest and was in the same dilemma whether to go for the petrol or diesel. I created this excel for a comparison. Diesel made more economic sense even after deregulation.
Note: The mileage I have put are very conservative and actual figures will be better.
I suppose the attached excel sheet can give you a more realistic scenario of expenses.

PS: Pls highlight if any mistakes are identified
Attached Files
File Type: xls Petrol Car or Diesel Car.xls (64.5 KB, 842 views)
pareshraheja is offline   (4) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2014, 15:39   #216
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 776
Thanked: 686 Times
Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Now this is the way to go, eventually. France plans to ban diesel cars to target pollution.

http://www.motorbeam.com/2014/12/new...medium=twitter
gsurya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2014, 15:55   #217
Senior - BHPian
 
Reinhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 1,118
Thanked: 1,170 Times
Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsurya View Post
Now this is the way to go, eventually. France plans to ban diesel cars to target pollution.

http://www.motorbeam.com/2014/12/new...medium=twitter
Already posted at 2-3 times and discussed plenty . As ever, there are always proponents and opponents of the same.
Reinhard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2014, 16:05   #218
Senior - BHPian
 
humyum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Leicester/Mumbai
Posts: 2,288
Thanked: 2,158 Times
Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Imagine this, I got my Swift Diesel in 2008 at on road 5 lakh 35 thousand for a VDI. The petrol counterpart costed 60 thousand less compared to my diesel model. I have run the car for 1 lakh 5 thousand kilometer by now. According to my calculations, at around 45 thousand kilometers, I recovered the extra money I had spent on the diesel, now since the past 60 thousand, its running on BONUS. BONUS blood BONUS Not to mention, the brilliant value that I will get for the car when I sell it.

Diesels over long term IMO make more economic sense. Either in resale value or the running cost over a long duration.
humyum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2014, 16:08   #219
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 776
Thanked: 686 Times
Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
Already posted at 2-3 times and discussed plenty . As ever, there are always proponents and opponents of the same.
Sorry, been traveling & out of touch here

Mods please delete to avoid repetition.
gsurya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2014, 17:37   #220
i10
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Chennai
Posts: 128
Thanked: 63 Times
Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Diesels over long term IMO make more economic sense. Either in resale value or the running cost over a long duration.
Depends a lot on the running too
i10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th December 2014, 18:22   #221
Senior - BHPian
 
greenhorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: TN-14
Posts: 6,777
Thanked: 1,208 Times
Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabyasworld View Post
I just bought a Zest and was in the same dilemma whether to go for the petrol or diesel. I created this excel for a comparison. Diesel made more economic sense even after deregulation.
Note: The mileage I have put are very conservative and actual figures will be better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pareshraheja View Post
I suppose the attached excel sheet can give you a more realistic scenario of expenses.

PS: Pls highlight if any mistakes are identified
Insurance and resale values are fixed in this sheet. I'd suggest you pick up the resale values from carwale as an indicator, put a lookup there and you'll need insurance to be dependent on years as well.
greenhorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2014, 23:09   #222
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 32
Thanked: 23 Times
Default

After the latest discounts that car manufacturers are offering due to low sales in December and with minimal difference in cost of petrol/diesel , petrol cars make more sense. Some petrol variants come with a waiting period more than the diesel variants now 😊
karavadi143 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2014, 00:37   #223
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Goa
Posts: 44
Thanked: 22 Times
Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by pareshraheja View Post
I suppose the attached excel sheet can give you a more realistic scenario of expenses.

PS: Pls highlight if any mistakes are identified
Really appreciate the efforts. But forgive me for wondering if this can really be generalized.
I'm guessing a separate spreadsheet with entirely different set of logistics will have to be made for a place like Goa, where the price difference between the two fuel types is almost Rs 10/-, petrol being the cheaper fuel!!
To top it all, when the commute is essentially limited to narrow roads what is the best that one may achieve w.r.t FE? Even if it's lets say 17/18 kmpl, does it really justify getting a diesel engine on a small/mid segment car given the price difference and "not too long" daily commutes?

I love the diesel engines car makers are coming out with. And am in no way being disrespectful about them. Just that the distance, traffic, fuel price conditions differ by a vast margin than Bombay/Pune/Delhi or any other major cities.

HR.
humbleroadster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2014, 06:53   #224
Senior - BHPian
 
shankar.balan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: BLR
Posts: 8,027
Thanked: 5,314 Times
Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Fuel prices were important to me at an earlier stage when I was driving a lot more.
Nowadays, I am barely able to clock 800kms per month, if that.
I would be quite happy with a nice, powerful, torquey petrol car, just as I am with my nice, powerful, torquey diesel car.
Fact is, that what I now crave is great comfort, superb ride over these horrible potholes, excellent ground clearance, great handling dynamics in most driving conditions, great safety and security and most certainly that extra zip and power which is exhilarating.
This is why I love my Yeti for all the above that it delivers to me in spades.
While I also like my Dads I20, I find that it simply doesn't have the necessary "juice" - it completely runs out of steam after a certain point and more irritatingly, it just doesn't have that extremely necessary low-end torque, to help handle the poisonous city traffic and slow, low gear movement.
I really don't care if both Petrol and Diesel become equal in terms of price. In fact, I would positively welcome it as a move by Government. However, there should definitely be parity across all states and union territories because after all, it is one country. I absolutely abhor the policies of the government which allows Delhi which is probably amongst the richest cities, to enjoy such a hugely subsidised fuel price!
shankar.balan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2014, 09:52   #225
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 681
Thanked: 1,268 Times
Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

News in Economic Times today

No plan to ban diesel cars in Delhi: Government

NEW DELHI: The government today said that at present it does not have any plans to ban all diesel cars in Delhi and convert them into CNG-driven vehicles.

In a written reply, Environment Minister Prakash Javadekar informed Lok Sabha that the Environment Pollution (Prevention and Control) Authority (ECPA) for the National Capital Region in in its report in the year 2007 in the matter of a writ petition to the Supreme Court had recommended that use of diesel in personal transport vehicles in the city of Delhi, need to be stopped.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...campaign=cppst
jessie007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Key decision points for Audi A4 versus Mercedes C220 versus BMW 320D ashishkashyap Luxury, Imports & Niche 40 30th April 2017 19:35
Petrol versus diesel cars - reliability rohantn Technical Stuff 72 28th May 2014 21:43
Petrol Versus Diesel: Toyota Corolla Altis druberoi Sedans 26 14th December 2010 08:56
Calculated:Diesel versus Petrol. Baleno /NHC/ Accent Crdi Buffetfan Sedans 23 19th September 2005 18:20


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 01:42.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks