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Old 2nd October 2015, 14:37   #271
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by aerohit View Post
Lets focus on real life road conditions instead of 0-100

The fact remains that small petrol cars bog down with AC on. Also bogs down with extra luggage or more than 2 adult passengers. This problem is less in Diesel cars.

I am only talking about small cars, not a v6 petrol.

Real life stop-go traffic is no fun for petrol cars, not to mention poor mileage.
Agree with you.
I had grand i10 diesel for 1.5 years or so.
Even with load + AC the car was good on highways specially overtaking on single lane roads.
With Swift petrol I realize how much of an advantage it was. Make no mistake, Swift petrol has power, but one has to work a bit harder to access it.

Swift VVT is sensitive to load ( and AC ) on highways and the lacking initial punch + flat midrange does not help either. Its only in top end that the real power flow starts. Off idle torque is reasonable for a small petrol.

However in case the running is less and chances of driving the car solo or with another one passenger are high, petrol cars make sense due to inherent refinement and lower initial cost + lower maintenance.

0-100 figures are not ideal real life figures one should consider. The in gear acceleration and related part throttle responses is where diesels score, specially on highway. In city driving conditions, the linear power delivery of petrol can be easier to live with. This is IMHO. Given current traffic conditions, I prefer diesels on highway, petrol cars in city. As my major running is in city, I prefer petrol car as of now.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 2nd October 2015 at 14:38.
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Old 2nd October 2015, 14:40   #272
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohit View Post
Lets focus on real life road conditions instead of 0-100

The fact remains that small petrol cars bog down with AC on. Also bogs down with extra luggage or more than 2 adult passengers. This problem is less in Diesel cars.

I am only talking about small cars, not a v6 petrol.

Real life stop-go traffic is no fun for petrol cars, not to mention poor mileage.
Yes, I agree with you. Budget-end small petrol hatchbacks are very fun-less. This segment basically started life in India as Maruti 800 and built its base around it. This segment is here mainly to cater to average wage-earner with small family and small monthly running. A typical owner of such car is not bothered about performance at all and he needs a very basic 4-wheeled transportation. Hence, not much has changed since the days of Maruti 800 on performance front. And then, with rising fuel prices the manufacturers shifted their attention to diesel cars and that explains why we have relatively better diesel cars. But to say that all petrols are weak and diesels are better is wrong. Also, we hardly have any turbo petrol cars whereas we hardly have any NA. diesel cars. So comparison will be skewed.

And as for diesel torque, trust me, they only feel faster. They are not. First, there would be lull and hic-up and then turbo would kick in making you feel that something has awaken. Whereas, in case of petrol cars it is very linear from the word go and acceleration is constant all the way up to high rpm.
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Old 2nd October 2015, 14:57   #273
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
And as for diesel torque, trust me, they only feel faster. They are not. First, there would be lull and hic-up and then turbo would kick in making you feel that something has awaken. Whereas, in case of petrol cars it is very linear from the word go and acceleration is constant all the way up to high rpm.
I agree. Also the power band is narrow most of the time.

Real life also means turbo lag and higher NVH for diesels. (PS: I drive a diesel). In city driving can get frustrating because of the lag. Although its a matter of getting used to and out on the highway, turbo helps the diesel cars over NA petrols.

But I think refinement is a big factor in favour of petrols and at current fuel prices, economics come in to help diesels only if running is very high.
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Old 2nd October 2015, 15:49   #274
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

In normal course, day to day driving, a turbo diesel's power band is enough for commutes and sustained cruising without changing gears despite hitting low speeds~50kmph in 5th gear.
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Old 2nd October 2015, 16:27   #275
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In Delhi and NCR getting a new Diesel car over its Petrol sibling makes little sense after the new 10 year rule by the NGT. The single biggest factor in covering up the premium for a diesel car was the resale which was almost 1L more almost the same as u paid upfront leaving the fuel cost savings for the owner. The difference between the fuel prices has also decreased and now for a person with moderate running upto 2000 kms it hardly makes sense for a diesel. The resale values for an 8year old diesel are in fact lower than an equivalent Petrol here. I see this 10year ban swinging the favour greatly in favour of Petrol at least here in NCR.
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Old 2nd October 2015, 16:29   #276
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by aamateen46 View Post
Swift petrol is significantly slower than swift diesel, both in 0-100 & in-gear acceleration figures!
Other than the polo GT, there is no petrol car in India, that can come close to its diesel sibling in terms of performance figures, let alone beat it.
Like I said, other than maybe budget offerings, a petrol will out accelerate a diesel anyday. Are you forgetting the 1.8 tsi vs the 2.0 tdi? or the 1.4 diesel in the corolla vs its 1.8 liter petrol sibling? A chevrolet Cruze with its 360nm of torque takes 9.8 seconds to 100 while my Kiz with only 240nm does it in 7.7 seconds (7.5 if you believe the company). 1.5 iVtec in the city beats a 1.5 iDtec, 1.6 duratec in the fiesta or rocam in the Ikon vs 1.4 duratorq or even the 1.5tdci, 1.4 t-jet vs 1.6 mjd, 1.4 tsi vs 1.9 tdi, G13B Swift vs 1.3 fgt mjd, 2.0 duratec from the mondeo vs 2.0 duratorq. Petrol beats diesel in all these cases. I wonder what possesed you to make such a foolish claim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohit View Post
Lets focus on real life road conditions instead of 0-100

The fact remains that small petrol cars bog down with AC on. Also bogs down with extra luggage or more than 2 adult passengers. This problem is less in Diesel cars.

I am only talking about small cars, not a v6 petrol.

Real life stop-go traffic is no fun for petrol cars, not to mention poor mileage.
You don't need to talk about a V6 petrol mate good petrol motors can be found in small sizes if you look at the 1.2tsi, 1.3 G13b, 1.4tsi, 1.4t-jet, 1.5 vtec, 1.6 rocam, 1.6 duratec, 1.6 M16a, 1.6 G16b etc. But yes when it comes to budget offerings, your statement holds true. Although poor mileage aside, I struggle to see how stop-go traffic would be any more fun in a diesel regardless of the segment infact it may even be worse in a diesel. I remember whenever my friends and I would meet somewhere during peak traffic hours, nearly everyone who drove a diesel car would be in a foul mood because of having to constantly work a heavy clutch.

Last edited by IshaanIan : 2nd October 2015 at 16:44.
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Old 2nd October 2015, 20:31   #277
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

I am just going to leave this here.

To avoid any confusion the diesel car is on the left, the petrol is on the right.



Last edited by nakul0888 : 2nd October 2015 at 20:41.
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Old 3rd October 2015, 10:18   #278
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I think, the main constraint is the tax bracket. For petrols sub 4m its 1.2L and diesels its 1.5L! Most diesels are turbo, while most petrols are NA. Very few cars are actually comparable between their diesel and petrol engines. Eg Gt twins, linea tjet vs diesel etc.

Also I've noticed this, fully load a petrol- 4 people + some luggage and its performance is significantly reduced. Not so for a diesel. Due to the high torque, it's ideal for in city. But on the open roads petrol shines.

An enthusiast will always prefer a petrol provided the diesel and petrol is comparable. But since that's not the case, people prefer diesels but more.
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Old 3rd October 2015, 10:40   #279
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Well one more reason to prefer petrol over diesel
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/Small-diesel-cars-set-to-cost-more/articleshow/49201624.cms

CHENNAI: As India moves to Euro 5 and Euro 6 emission norms in the next two to eight years, the compact diesel car and SUV could well become the biggest casualty.

According to auto industry sources, the move from Bharat Stage 4 or Euro 4 to Euro 5 and beyond will require significant investment in technologies like Diesel Particle Filter (DPF) and Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) which will increase the cost of a small diesel car/SUV by Rs 65,000-1 lakh. Petrol engines on the other hand will require simpler technology tweaks and will only see a markup of Rs 7000-11,000 max.

The difference is already a lac, with Euro 5 and 6 it looks like the difference would be close to 2 lacs.
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Old 3rd October 2015, 17:28   #280
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by PrideRed View Post
Well one more reason to prefer petrol over diesel
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...w/49201624.cms

CHENNAI: As India moves to Euro 5 and Euro 6 emission norms in the next two to eight years, the compact diesel car and SUV could well become the biggest casualty.

According to auto industry sources, the move from Bharat Stage 4 or Euro 4 to Euro 5 and beyond will require significant investment in technologies like Diesel Particle Filter (DPF) and Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) which will increase the cost of a small diesel car/SUV by Rs 65,000-1 lakh. Petrol engines on the other hand will require simpler technology tweaks and will only see a markup of Rs 7000-11,000 max.

The difference is already a lac, with Euro 5 and 6 it looks like the difference would be close to 2 lacs.
2 lakhs for the technology. Add one more lakh for the manufacturers greed to milk our love for diesel cars. So it will be up by 3 lakhs. Now as someone sad above, unless you are a cab business , it does not make a strong business sense.
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Old 3rd October 2015, 21:43   #281
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

In the market for a new car - shortlisted Maruti Ciaz for an overall VFM package.

But the confusion persists with diesel vs petrol option.

Our running is not much. Maximum 10k per year. And that too shared by two cars - the other one also being a petrol powered one.

Mind saying for Ciaz petrol as it makes sense considering low usage, longer vehicle ownership, money saving - initial investment of 1+ lac over petrol, low maintenance and smoothness.

Heart saying for Ciaz diesel because it will be the first diesel car in the family, diesel torque, already having fun with City petrol i-VTEC, Ciaz petrol engine not so performance enthusiast friendly without any thrills!

Indecision continues.

Pointers will be appreciated.

Last edited by bluevolt : 3rd October 2015 at 21:44.
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Old 3rd October 2015, 21:54   #282
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by bluevolt View Post
Our running is not much. Maximum 10k per year. And that too shared by two cars - the other one also being a petrol powered one.
10 K per year being shared between two cars is too less to consider a diesel.

Quote:
...Ciaz petrol engine not so performance enthusiast friendly without any thrills!
Neither is the Ciaz Diesel. Drive a Vento to find out why.

Maybe look at other options such as the Linea, Vento TSI(for an Automatic), Ecosport Ecoboost. Note that Vento DSG has a patchy history with too many gearbox failures.
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Old 5th October 2015, 14:24   #283
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

From the dilemma which car to go for – Diesel or Petrol - One thing I understand is that the group who swear by Diesel cars, go for it for the torque nature of the engine and the rest (economics, love for Diesel etc.…) depending on their priorities?

The reason I want to change from a manual (i20 CDRI) to automatic is due to the pain of commuting in peak hours. In this peak hours the average speed I am sure is not more than 15 kms and will the torque nature of Diesel engine help? I am not sure. As someone mentioned in the thread that the clutch of Diesel car is a bit hard when compared with a Petrol car. I cannot vouch for this, as I have been driving the last 20 years only Diesel cars. Now a days I do drive a Petrol card but, it’s an automatic (my wife’s i10). It’s bliss to drive an automatic in peak hours.

Now coming back to the dilemma. I wouldn’t mind sticking to a Diesel car but, the options in Diesel automatics are way too few. You have the Vento/Rapid, Verna & Creta. As already mentioned would like to keep way from Vento/Rapid because of their ASS mess and most import the history of gearbox (DQ200) failure. Verna seems good but for that 4 speed gear box. I feel for this class it should be minimum 5 speed. Creta, it’s a good cars but, over priced in my opinion and I don’t have a budget of 17 Plus lakhs on road in Bangalore.

So I am forced to look at Petrol automatics. I have short listed the following cars
1. Honda Jazz
2. Honda City
3. Eco sport (Facelift version)
4. Belano (Launch on 26th Oct and do understand there is a CVT option being released)

I know I am all over the place – From hatch back to sedan to compact SUV. Which car should I go for? As mentioned earlier I commute around 45 kms per day 6 days a week (minimum 4 hours is the commute every day). Which works out to 1215 kms per month home-office-home commute. Weekends not much, let’s round it off to 1500 kms per month. Not much highway drives, may be once a year.

My criteria is that it needs to be an automatic and running & maintenance cost should be decent (remember I have been driving the last 20 years Diesel cars) & I should enjoy driving. I am an average Joe who is not into enthusiastic driving, I am pretty sedate driver (may be age has mellowed me).

First thing I need to get out is the feeling high when I fill in Diesel which is cheaper when compared whilst filling my wife's Petrol car. I conveniently forgot that I have paid a premium for this Diesel car and maintaining the Diesel car could be higher when compared with a Petrol car.

Suggestions of which car I should go for are most welcome.
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Old 5th October 2015, 15:04   #284
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Suggestions of which car I should go for are most welcome.
Any specific reason why the Zest isn't on your list of contenders? There seems to be no doubt anywhere that Tata has come a long way with Zest, from any of their previous products. It's an auto, economical and well equipped.
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Old 5th October 2015, 15:34   #285
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Any specific reason why the Zest isn't on your list of contenders? There seems to be no doubt anywhere that Tata has come a long way with Zest, from any of their previous products. It's an auto, economical and well equipped.
You caught me off guard. I don't know how I missed out. How is an AMT to drive? I haven't driven an AMT. I have read that it jerks? Is it true?
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