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Old 5th October 2015, 15:45   #286
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by Houston View Post

Suggestions of which car I should go for are most welcome.
Firstly it is indeed a good choice to choose an AT. Secondly you definitely need to finalize the segment.
Assuming you will mostly be alone in the car (no co-passenger), you should consider Amaze Petrol Automatic. Considering that it costs about 8-9 lakhs, is built for mileage and is quite sturdy, overall it should fit your need. If I were in your situation and had 11 lakhs budget, I would buy Amaze top end AT, put in accessories worth 2 lakhs (oh yes) and smile.
Alternatively consider Ciaz AT, also under 10L. (all prices OTR delhi)

As for Diesels, based on my experience as well as that of my colleagues, I can confidently say that for any normal person they are slower and more difficult to drive than Petrols of the same model. And relatively noisier too. In cities as well as on highways. There are hardly any countries where diesel cars are preferred over petrol, provided price of fuels is more or less same.
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Old 5th October 2015, 15:59   #287
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by Houston View Post
You caught me off guard. I don't know how I missed out. How is an AMT to drive? I haven't driven an AMT. I have read that it jerks? Is it true?
I recently test drove Zest Diesel AMT. I didn't feel any jerks or any issues. I would have bought the car if I was looking for a Diesel Sedan.

I am recommending that people try it out before rejecting just based on Tata badge.

The downer for me was
No dead pedal.
There is no "crawl/creep" when I am in D and let go of the brake at standstill, this is a very good feature of AT cars.
The car was too big for my needs. I prefer hatchback.
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Old 5th October 2015, 20:45   #288
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

While the Zest may have been our car of the year, there is still no denying quality issues in Tata products. The forum has infinite examples of Tata's glaring quality issues and even a couple of threads on Tata cars (indigo and xenon i think) where the bonnet flew open while driving. Scary to have to deal with such a product IMO. Poor quality is still something that strikes you when in the cabin of a Zest. No matter how improved, they just aren't quite there yet. Hope things change with the Hexa

Last edited by IshaanIan : 5th October 2015 at 20:49.
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Old 6th October 2015, 01:26   #289
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by Houston View Post

Suggestions of which car I should go for are most welcome.
I am surprised that Bhpian's have not mentioned Ford Figo 1.5 AT. I am sure it the best automatic car you can get in this segment. let us compare this with Honda Amaze Automatic. Honda is giving 1.2 liter Naturally Aspirated engine which definitely is weak point. The car is underpowered for its size. Ford is giving 1.5 liter engine which is also NA and outputs a peak power of 112 horses. Moreover it's one lakh cheaper, 10 year warranty on the gear box.

I test drove the Figo and its low end torque is superb. The only downside is interiors and space on offering compared to Jazz.
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Old 6th October 2015, 11:16   #290
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Petrol vs Diesel also somewhat depends on the car model. For e.g. in the Ford Aspire/Figo twins or in the Vento/Polo, the diesel outshines the petrol option in performance.
Its the other way round in the Corolla Altis where the 1.8L Petrol is brilliant compared to the 1.4 Diesel. If you like a car but the diesel model is better, then people do sometimes go for it even though the usage doesn't justify it.
If Figo came with a 1.5 Petrol in the manual transmission, I'd seriously consider it over the diesel, because the 1.5 Petrol Automatic is priced similar to the diesel.
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Old 6th October 2015, 13:08   #291
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChupaRustam View Post
Firstly it is indeed a good choice to choose an AT. Secondly you definitely need to finalize the segment.
Assuming you will mostly be alone in the car (no co-passenger), you should consider Amaze Petrol Automatic. Considering that it costs about 8-9 lakhs, is built for mileage and is quite sturdy, overall it should fit your need. If I were in your situation and had 11 lakhs budget, I would buy Amaze top end AT, put in accessories worth 2 lakhs (oh yes) and smile.
Alternatively consider Ciaz AT, also under 10L. (all prices OTR delhi)

As for Diesels, based on my experience as well as that of my colleagues, I can confidently say that for any normal person they are slower and more difficult to drive than Petrols of the same model. And relatively noisier too. In cities as well as on highways. There are hardly any countries where diesel cars are preferred over petrol, provided price of fuels is more or less same.
I never liked Amaze. Don't know why?

Current Diesel cars are pretty refined (Currently I drive i20 CRDI) and easy to drive, maybe not as easy as a Petrol car. I know I need to change my mind set. I keep comparing the Diesel running cost with the Petrol running cost. I need to consider the premium paid for the Diesel model (I am sure I have recovered the premium paid as the clock reading is 90000 Kms in 6 years) and the maintaining cost is on the higher side for a Diesel car when compared with a Petrol car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
I recently test drove Zest Diesel AMT. I didn't feel any jerks or any issues. I would have bought the car if I was looking for a Diesel Sedan.

I am recommending that people try it out before rejecting just based on Tata badge.

The downer for me was
No dead pedal.
There is no "crawl/creep" when I am in D and let go of the brake at standstill, this is a very good feature of AT cars.
The car was too big for my needs. I prefer hatchback.
I owned TATA for 10 years and was not happy with the quality of the car or the service. So I don't want to consider TATA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
While the Zest may have been our car of the year, there is still no denying quality issues in Tata products. The forum has infinite examples of Tata's glaring quality issues and even a couple of threads on Tata cars (indigo and xenon i think) where the bonnet flew open while driving. Scary to have to deal with such a product IMO. Poor quality is still something that strikes you when in the cabin of a Zest. No matter how improved, they just aren't quite there yet. Hope things change with the Hexa
I completely agree with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krsna777 View Post
I am surprised that Bhpian's have not mentioned Ford Figo 1.5 AT. I am sure it the best automatic car you can get in this segment. let us compare this with Honda Amaze Automatic. Honda is giving 1.2 liter Naturally Aspirated engine which definitely is weak point. The car is underpowered for its size. Ford is giving 1.5 liter engine which is also NA and outputs a peak power of 112 horses. Moreover it's one lakh cheaper, 10 year warranty on the gear box.

I test drove the Figo and its low end torque is superb. The only downside is interiors and space on offering compared to Jazz.
I am thinking of taking a test drive of the Figo AT. I am still in that dilemma of Diesel or Petrol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetti View Post
Petrol vs Diesel also somewhat depends on the car model. For e.g. in the Ford Aspire/Figo twins or in the Vento/Polo, the diesel outshines the petrol option in performance.
Its the other way round in the Corolla Altis where the 1.8L Petrol is brilliant compared to the 1.4 Diesel. If you like a car but the diesel model is better, then people do sometimes go for it even though the usage doesn't justify it.
If Figo came with a 1.5 Petrol in the manual transmission, I'd seriously consider it over the diesel, because the 1.5 Petrol Automatic is priced similar to the diesel.
I am sure the same applies to i20. Diesel i20 outshines the Petrol i20. When it comes to Honda cars, I am sure the Petrol outshines Diesel.
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Old 6th October 2015, 13:22   #292
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Houston, why not Ecosport AT. It's not too big and is actually best-looking among all CUVs. A fantastic all-around car I'm sure. You have the 200 mm GC to clear our infamous bumps comfortably.
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Old 6th October 2015, 13:38   #293
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
Houston, why not Ecosport AT. It's not too big and is actually best-looking among all CUVs. A fantastic all-around car I'm sure. You have the 200 mm GC to clear our infamous bumps comfortably.
Pgsagar-Yes I am looking at Ecosport AT also, just waiting for the face lift to be released which I understand is somethime this month. Any idea on the fuel economy with in the city?
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Old 6th October 2015, 14:23   #294
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston View Post
Pgsagar-Yes I am looking at Ecosport AT also, just waiting for the face lift to be released which I understand is somethime this month. Any idea on the fuel economy with in the city?
FE? It all depends on your right foot. Slam it hard and you will be looking down 8-9 kmpl. Go easy on the pedal and 12-13 kpl can be reached. The facelift? Ah yes, but I hope they do not change those alloys. I find them best looking stock alloys among all cars south of 20 lakhs. And I also, hope, they provide a push-button start on AT variant. In looks, I think Ecosport beats even Creta. Being compact and several lakhs cheaper than Creta, I would any day pick Ecosport. Never mind the 3-year old age; it has timeless design. Some cars do not age. Remember Swift? Ten years on, it is still number one in sales and looks , among hatchbacks. I'm sure with minor facelifts every 2-3 years, Ecosport will chug along for a long time.
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Old 7th October 2015, 11:31   #295
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston View Post
Pgsagar-Yes I am looking at Ecosport AT also
Ecosport is quite short compared to even Rapid. I myself really wanted to buy an AT SUV around 10-12K but was disappointed. Although some people do find the space adequate, not so for larger people like me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston View Post
I never liked Amaze. Don't know why?

Current Diesel cars are pretty refined (Currently I drive i20 CRDI) and easy to drive, maybe not as easy as a Petrol car.
Ohhh the big P vs D debate.

The inherent nature of diesel cycle, with compression ignition etc, makes it noisier and harsher by design. However, I agree that car makers have gone miles to suppress the excess noise to bring it to more tolerable limits, even if still higher than petrol. As for agility and apparent power-fullness of petrol car, those factors remains pretty much underutilized by common people like us because almost 99% of the time the car will drive at under 3000 rpm, whereas peak power comes at 6000 rpm or so. Also for an AT, the issue of heavy clutch doesn't arise. So in general, if you like a petrol variant, the diesel variant will be pretty much within tolerable limits too.

The only major differentiating factor that remains is that for a given cost of low end diesel AT variant, you will get a top end Petrol AT variant with zillions of extra features. If your friend bought a top end TSi and you got a mid end TDi in the same price, would that still make you happier. An answer to that will help you choose between P and D.
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Old 8th October 2015, 15:42   #296
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

When I bought my first car in 2012 (Punto Active 1.3) my personal choice on Petrol vs Diesel was primarily cost based. I have made a lot of road trips - Pune to Goa, B'lore, Hyderabad, Monthly Pune - Baroda trips etc, with an average 1500-1800 km per month running. Keeping that in mind, I decided to go in for diesel, to keep my fuel costs low.

That being said, with the decreasing gap between petrol and diesel prices, this is now becoming lesser of a factor in the decision process for my next car.

Here's a quick analysis I did on running cost between P and D cars.

*Note:
1. I have only factored in the fuel costs in this analysis. Maintenance + other running costs (accessories, misc etc) are not considered
2. 60-40 city - highway running
3. Diesel car average: 15 km/l (actual), Petrol: 13 km/l (assumed)
4. Total running per year on actuals (rounded off to nearest '000)
5. The numbers below are based on my Punto. You might get better numbers, depending upon your car, driving style, etc.

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The difference over 3 years came to ~ 1Lakh INR. That being said, a major part of the difference was in the 1st 2 years where the costs would have been double in case of petrol. In 2014, the cost difference was about 20%.
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Deciding to buy a diesel car purely based on cost savings on fuel would make sense if you are ok to break even on the initial cost of the car after at least 4 years.

The other advantages/disadvantages of petrol over diesel have already been described at length here.

Hope this helps.

PS: Average fuel price numbers sourced from rediffDOTcom, reference below
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Old 9th October 2015, 17:37   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChupaRustam View Post
Ecosport is quite short compared to even Rapid. I myself really wanted to buy an AT SUV around 10-12K but was disappointed. Although some people do find the space adequate, not so for larger people like me.

The only major differentiating factor that remains is that for a given cost of low end diesel AT variant, you will get a top end Petrol AT variant with zillions of extra features. If your friend bought a top end TSi and you got a mid end TDi in the same price, would that still make you happier. An answer to that will help you choose between P and D.
I need to go and check out Ecosport. Dimension wise both Ecosport & i20 are similar but, with the exception of the width. Ecosport width is smaller than i20. All this comparison is based on the dimension available on the web. I am fine with Ecosport if the space is comparable to i20.

I am forced to look at Petrol auto because, there is not many choice in Diesel auto. You have Vento/Rapid from the VW group and Verna / Creta from Hyundai group. Not comfortable with VW group. Verna with 4 speed gear box is outdated & Creta is way to expensive.

I am still in the dilemma of Diesel or Petrol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bassman View Post
Deciding to buy a diesel car purely based on cost savings on fuel would make sense if you are ok to break even on the initial cost of the car after at least 4 years.
My decision is based only on fuel cost. I think I need to change my thinking and factor in the maintenance cost. I am sure Diesel is more expensive than Petrol to maintain. When you factor in all the costs, I am sure the cost savings what you get in a Diesel Vs Petrol with a running of around 1500 Kms per month might not be that big.

Last edited by ampere : 9th October 2015 at 19:11. Reason: Back to Back posts merged
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Old 12th October 2015, 13:50   #298
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Oh god, when can I get out of this dilemma? I am not out of the dilemma of Diesel or Petrol car and I have walked into another dilemma.

Yesterday took test drive of Jazz CVT and Ecosport AT (had to test drive Aspire, as Ecosport AT test car was not available). Now my heart tells me to go for Ecosport AT, will be stretching myself to buy and my head tells me to go for Jazz AT as it is close to 2.5 lakhs cheaper.

Guys, need help. For 1500 Kms running per month in the city in peak hours. Which car do you recommend (right now I drive i20 CRDI and want to change to AT because, it is becoming a pain to drive MT in peak hours 6 days a week). My main criteria is

a. Easy of driving in peak hours (I spend close to 4 hours everyday commuting)
b. Running & Maintenance cost should be decent (been driving Diesel cars for over 20 years)
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Old 12th October 2015, 14:18   #299
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston View Post
Guys, need help. For 1500 Kms running per month in the city in peak hours. Which car do you recommend (right now I drive i20 CRDI and want to change to AT because, it is becoming a pain to drive MT in peak hours 6 days a week). My main criteria is

a. Easy of driving in peak hours (I spend close to 4 hours everyday commuting)
b. Running & Maintenance cost should be decent (been driving Diesel cars for over 20 years)

Ecosport AT and Jazz AT are from different segments altogether.

On your parameters:
a. Ease of driving in peak hours - both offer similar almost driving dynamics, while Jazz having a slight edge, due to its smaller size in comparison to the compact SUV.
See below that Ecosport is about 44 mm lengthier and 69 mm wider than Jazz.
L*W*H - 3999*1765*1708 (Ecosport)
L*W*H - 3955*1694*1544 (Jazz)

Also, Ecosport's minimum turning radius is 5.3 metres, while Jazz's stands at 5.1 metres.
This being the case, I suggest to handle both vehicles similar, giving space on all sides while driving, imagining the vehicle to be a bit bigger than it actually is, so that it does not get scratches.

b) Running & Cost of Maintenance:
ARAI rating says Jazz gives 19 kmpl, while Ecosport gives 16.5 kmpl. Subtract a full 5 kmpl to get the real city mileage.
For someone who has been running on diesel for a long time, running a petrol car would be difficult at first, due to its frequent visit to petrol bunk, and the extra $$$ you pay there.
Since you are going for a petrol automatic, you are paying a premium here for the gearbox, which otherwise you would have paid for the diesel engine.

My suggestions:
a) If you want to continue driving a B2 hatchback, but just want an automatic car for the ease of use, check Jazz CVT and go for it. You would save a lot of money. Other options: Ford Figo AT
b) If you want to truly upgrade your car, try the Ecosport AT. Though it is from different segment and hence priced high, it is spacious, and a neat car to drive. Other compact SUV options: Nothing less than 10L ex-showroom other than Ecosport
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Old 12th October 2015, 14:46   #300
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by hybridpetrol View Post
Ecosport AT and Jazz AT are from different segments altogether.

b) Running & Cost of Maintenance:
ARAI rating says Jazz gives 19 kmpl, while Ecosport gives 16.5 kmpl. Subtract a full 5 kmpl to get the real city mileage.
For someone who has been running on diesel for a long time, running a petrol car would be difficult at first, due to its frequent visit to petrol bunk, and the extra $$$ you pay there.
Since you are going for a petrol automatic, you are paying a premium here for the gearbox, which otherwise you would have paid for the diesel engine.

My suggestions:
a) If you want to continue driving a B2 hatchback, but just want an automatic car for the ease of use, check Jazz CVT and go for it. You would save a lot of money. Other options: Ford Figo AT
b) If you want to truly upgrade your car, try the Ecosport AT. Though it is from different segment and hence priced high, it is spacious, and a neat car to drive. Other compact SUV options: Nothing less than 10L ex-showroom other than Ecosport
Jazz would be economical with regard to running cost as it might return around 13-14 kmpl Vs Ecosport which might return 10-11 kmpl with a very light right foot.

When features what is being offered is compared, then Ecosport comes on top in my opinion. I am inclined towards Ecosport but, a bit apprehensive after reading about the fuel consumption averaging around 7-8 kmpl. Is it really that bad?
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