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Old 12th October 2015, 14:58   #301
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by Houston View Post
My decision is based only on fuel cost. I think I need to change my thinking and factor in the maintenance cost. I am sure Diesel is more expensive than Petrol to maintain. When you factor in all the costs, I am sure the cost savings what you get in a Diesel Vs Petrol with a running of around 1500 Kms per month might not be that big.
I don't believe there are too many differences in terms of the maintenance costs of Diesel vs Petrol. The MJD, CRDI and other new Diesel engines are designed very well. My running costs (apart from the fuel costs) were comparable to that of the corresponding petrol car ( I believe).

My last service (30K/3 years) costs me about 6600/- INR. As the Punto has a relatively larger service interval (yearly/15k kms) I do not have any other maintenance costs - at least none which are different from petrol cars (from the same stable at least). A Fiat diesel car might be more expensive than a Maruti Diesel. But a Fiat Diesel should not (ideally) cost more to maintain than a Fiat petrol IMHO.

Cost wise, I would still believe that fuel is the main difference - well, not so much now, with the reducing difference in the costs of Diesel vs Petrol.
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Old 12th October 2015, 15:13   #302
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by Houston View Post
Jazz would be economical with regard to running cost as it might return around 13-14 kmpl Vs Ecosport which might return 10-11 kmpl with a very light right foot.

When features what is being offered is compared, then Ecosport comes on top in my opinion. I am inclined towards Ecosport but, a bit apprehensive after reading about the fuel consumption averaging around 7-8 kmpl. Is it really that bad?
Take these reviews with a pinch of salt. Some of them are just plain exaggeration.
I always consider full tank to full tank as proper mileage measurement criteria. The real time fuel economy shown on the MID varies depending on the situation, and the situations are always not that worst. Even the Average fuel consumption figures on MID not always indicate the correct mileage we usually consider due to various factors.
People who generally put petrol for Rs. 1000 at a time, will take the fuel consumption figures shown on the MID to be an accurate measure generally, and hence they fume on the forums seeing the low figure, which is not always true.

However, also note that, being a 1.5L petrol engine, the mileage figures will be definitely on the lower side for Ecosport compared to the 1.2L engine of Jazz.

These are all just a few prices to pay for the additional luxury we get on a higher segment car As we go higher in segments, the mileage drops due to the volume of the engine chamber, consuming more fuel.
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Old 12th October 2015, 15:22   #303
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by Houston View Post
Jazz would be economical with regard to running cost as it might return around 13-14 kmpl Vs Ecosport which might return 10-11 kmpl with a very light right foot.

When features what is being offered is compared, then Ecosport comes on top in my opinion. I am inclined towards Ecosport but, a bit apprehensive after reading about the fuel consumption averaging around 7-8 kmpl. Is it really that bad?
The Jazz costs 2.5 lakhs less, so over a 3 year loan that means around 7500/- reduction in the monthly payout that pays for nearly 125 litres of fuel at today's petrol cost. 1500 kms a month calls for diesel, but as you are inclined towards petrol, lower initial costs help. Petrol cars guzzle fuel if you are stuck in traffic with the A/C on, something that might be hit you hard after being used to a diesel. 7kmpl in a crawl on a hot day is definitely a possibility with a petrol.

A diesel car with 15kmpl(easily achievable in town with AC) will cost you 58k a year in running costs, a petrol with 15kmpl will cost you around 72k a year in running costs. 15 kmpl with a petrol in traffic nearly impossible though.
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Old 12th October 2015, 17:55   #304
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by bassman View Post
I don't believe there are too many differences in terms of the maintenance costs of Diesel vs Petrol. The MJD, CRDI and other new Diesel engines are designed very well. My running costs (apart from the fuel costs) were comparable to that of the corresponding petrol car ( I believe).
Cost wise, I would still believe that fuel is the main difference - well, not so much now, with the reducing difference in the costs of Diesel vs Petrol.
Even I do believe in what you are saying but, I don't have any figures to go back to check if I am right as I have been driving only diesel cars over 20 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hybridpetrol View Post
Take these reviews with a pinch of salt. Some of them are just plain exaggeration.
These are all just a few prices to pay for the additional luxury we get on a higher segment car As we go higher in segments, the mileage drops due to the volume of the engine chamber, consuming more fuel.
Very true

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Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
1500 kms a month calls for diesel, but as you are inclined towards petrol, lower initial costs help. Petrol cars guzzle fuel if you are stuck in traffic with the A/C on, something that might be hit you hard after being used to a diesel. 7kmpl in a crawl on a hot day is definitely a possibility with a petrol.

A diesel car with 15kmpl(easily achievable in town with AC) will cost you 58k a year in running costs, a petrol with 15kmpl will cost you around 72k a year in running costs. 15 kmpl with a petrol in traffic nearly impossible though.
I would love to stick with the Diesel car but, there are not many Diesel AT options in the 10-12 lakhs range. With 4 + hours of commute every day 6 days a week is taking it's toll on my left knee. There are days I get out of the car limping. So looking for an automatic. As there are not many options in Diesel AT I am forced to consider Petrol AT. This dilemma is killing me.

Times I doubt myself if I my decision of switching over to a Petrol AT is wise or am I making a mistake?
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Old 12th October 2015, 19:04   #305
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Originally Posted by Houston View Post
Times I doubt myself if I my decision of switching over to a Petrol AT is wise or am I making a mistake?
4 hours of daily drive for 6 days a week and only 1500km a month?
That is more than 100 hours for 1500km. Avg speed of 14km per hour. So your 4 hours commute is in dense b2b city traffic. This definitely calls for a clutch free drive mate. As your usage is good enough for a diesel, how about a Vento 1.5L diesel DSG?
The DSG mated with the TSi engine has been having issues, but the one mated to the diesel hasn't if I am not wrong.
Also, my father's Zest AMT is doing brilliantly well and would be much cheaper to buy too.
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Old 12th October 2015, 19:20   #306
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by itsashishsharma View Post
As your usage is good enough for a diesel, how about a Vento 1.5L diesel DSG? The DSG mated with the TSi engine has been having issues, but the one mated to the diesel hasn't if I am not wrong.
According to the Vento brochure, the Vento TSI and Vento TDI both come with the 7-speed DQ200 model of DSG that has had problems.

So, if you or Houston are worried about the longevity of the gearbox, then I'd skip the diesel for sure! Why? Because the DQ200 DSG is rated for a maximum of 250 Nm of torque, and guess what - the 1.5 TDI puts out exactly 250 Nm of torque!

@itsashishsharma - previously, VW/Skoda used to pair their TDI engines with the 6-speed DQ250 wet clutch DSG which had a higher torque rating of 350 Nm; and reserved the 7-speed DQ200 dry-clutch DSG for the 1.2 TSI and 1.8 TSI engines (with the 1.8 limited to 250 Nm of torque). The Vento and Rapid are the first time they've paired the TDI with the DQ200.

Last edited by arunphilip : 12th October 2015 at 19:23.
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Old 12th October 2015, 19:34   #307
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston View Post
With 4 + hours of commute every day 6 days a week is taking it's toll on my left knee. There are days I get out of the car limping. So looking for an automatic. As there are not many options in Diesel AT I am forced to consider Petrol AT. This dilemma is killing me.

Times I doubt myself if I my decision of switching over to a Petrol AT is wise or am I making a mistake?
In this case, you should also consider the cost involved here:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/mumbai...31LLC1ONN.html

or at least:

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/...cle4337079.ece

Add to this, the cost of physiotherapy and losses involved in not being able to work normally when the medical problem gets aggravated and the cost of physical agony.

Weigh this with the following:

ARAI FE of Ecosport AT is 16.5kmpl on petrol. Expect 8-9kmpl (11500 - 13000 /month)
ARAI FE of Jazz AT is 19kmpl on petrol; you can expect 10-12kmpl (8750-10500 /month), so not a huge difference here.

Alternately, for a similar amount of money to what you would pay for a Jazz, you can opt for the Tata Zest. ARAI FE of TATA Zest is 23kmpl on diesel. Expect 14-17kmpl (4500 - 5500 /month i.e. Similar to your existing i20). Savings of 5000-7500 / month.

Net Net:
If you move from i20 to Zest, you pay just the additional EMI (for the Zest) and save 2-6 lakhs in medical bills apart from physical agony.

If you move from i20 to Jazz/Ecosport, you pay the additional EMI + 5k-7.5k and save 2-6 lakhs in medical bills apart from physical agony.

In EMI Terms, an additional 5k-7.5k gives you additional 2-3 lakhs of loan amount to play with. The final option here is to spend that money anyways, but on loan repayment, and not fuel and opt for the Skoda Rapid 1.5 Diesel AT.

Monthly Rapid AT EMI + Fuel Costs will be roughly equal to Monthly Ecosport AT EMI + Fuel Costs.
Going for Jazz will save you about 2-3k/month.
Zest will save you another 4-5k/month.
Hailing an Uber/Ola everyday will end up costing you the least and give you Sethji rear-seat comfort (with complementary Airtel 4g & Mineral Water in the Uber).
It all boils down to how much you want to spend on the daily commute.

Disclaimer: Maintenance and Insurance costs have not been included in this calculation anywhere.

Happy Car Shopping! Do keep us updated on what you opt for in the end.
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Old 13th October 2015, 14:31   #308
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
Weigh this with the following:

ARAI FE of Ecosport AT is 16.5kmpl on petrol. Expect 8-9kmpl (11500 - 13000 /month)
ARAI FE of Jazz AT is 19kmpl on petrol; you can expect 10-12kmpl (8750-10500 /month), so not a huge difference here.

Alternately, for a similar amount of money to what you would pay for a Jazz, you can opt for the Tata Zest. ARAI FE of TATA Zest is 23kmpl on diesel. Expect 14-17kmpl (4500 - 5500 /month i.e. Similar to your existing i20). Savings of 5000-7500 / month.

Net Net:
If you move from i20 to Zest, you pay just the additional EMI (for the Zest) and save 2-6 lakhs in medical bills apart from physical agony.

If you move from i20 to Jazz/Ecosport, you pay the additional EMI + 5k-7.5k and save 2-6 lakhs in medical bills apart from physical agony.

In EMI Terms, an additional 5k-7.5k gives you additional 2-3 lakhs of loan amount to play with. The final option here is to spend that money anyways, but on loan repayment, and not fuel and opt for the Skoda Rapid 1.5 Diesel AT.

Monthly Rapid AT EMI + Fuel Costs will be roughly equal to Monthly Ecosport AT EMI + Fuel Costs.
Going for Jazz will save you about 2-3k/month.
Zest will save you another 4-5k/month.
Hailing an Uber/Ola everyday will end up costing you the least and give you Sethji rear-seat comfort (with complementary Airtel 4g & Mineral Water in the Uber).
It all boils down to how much you want to spend on the daily commute.

Disclaimer: Maintenance and Insurance costs have not been included in this calculation anywhere.

Happy Car Shopping! Do keep us updated on what you opt for in the end.
I am feeling dizzy after going through all the permutation & combinations you have listed out.
Will surely keep you guys updated on which car I would select provided I get out the dilemma I am currently in.
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Old 13th October 2015, 16:51   #309
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Houston,
Not to confuse you any further , but were you able to get a TD of Ford Figo/Aspire AT? That was another option that you were considering. Same 1.5 Petrol + DCT combo like the Ecosport.
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Old 13th October 2015, 18:28   #310
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Houston, you should also consider Ola / Uber for your daily commute. Or even a ride sharing platform (Uber Pool, Bla Bla car and others). Your commute time / distance is just plain madness. There's no way you'd even enjoy your vehicle during this drive.

If you think about it, 1500kms a month @ 10Rs a km (please note that you often get super discounts on rides) - your total cost is 15,000 Rs. If you work from home a few days, this comes down even more.

The alternative of fuel + vehicle cost + insurance just doesn't add up at least for this commute.

Ok, have I confused you more? Good luck with whatever you decide.

You could buy yourself a nice manual / fun car (hint: Punto Abarth! hehe) that you enjoy on the weekends and leave all the cares for your office commute to others.
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Old 13th October 2015, 19:36   #311
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston View Post
I am feeling dizzy after going through all the permutation & combinations you have listed out.
Will surely keep you guys updated on which car I would select provided I get out the dilemma I am currently in.
Dear Houston,
As suggested by jetti why not Figo or Aspire Automatics? Figo costs ₹8 lakh on road and Aspire ₹9 lakh. I own an Aspire and I get 11 km/ ltr and I'm one who doesn't care for fuel efficiency! You will surely get 12 in peak Bangalore traffic as you are a sedate driver. If you use for 90000 kms you will mostly require ₹ 6 lakh for fuel. So in effect ₹ 14 lakh for Figo. The cheapest Diesel automatic barring Zest will cost ₹13.5 lakh on road and adding fuel another ₹3 lakh that's ₹17 lakh. If you plan to take a loan, then no way will you recover the money spent over and above a Petrol AT. Buy a Figo/Aspire/Jazz/Baleno.

The Rationalist.
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Old 14th October 2015, 09:49   #312
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by itsashishsharma View Post
The DSG mated with the TSi engine has been having issues, but the one mated to the diesel hasn't if I am not wrong.
It is too early to comment on reliability of the DSG mated to the 1.2l turbo petrol and 1.5l turbo diesel. Apart from a couple of folks who had a problem and reported them here (possibly resolved now), I have not heard of any complaints. My colleague drives one too and the car is closing in on a year.

The 1.2l DSG equipped cars have been around for over 2 years. I'd give them a 5 year time frame or around 80,000km on the odo before coming to a conclusion on the gearbox.
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Old 15th October 2015, 13:16   #313
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by jetti View Post
Houston,
Not to confuse you any further , but were you able to get a TD of Ford Figo/Aspire AT? That was another option that you were considering. Same 1.5 Petrol + DCT combo like the Ecosport.
Dear Jetti. I did take Aspire AT for test drive, as Ecosport AT was not available. As Aspire was not in my wish list, I did not look around the car they way you would do when it's in your wish list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
Ok, have I confused you more? Good luck with whatever you decide.
Dear Mad Max. Yes you have confused me. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rationalist View Post
Buy a Figo/Aspire/Jazz/Baleno.
Dear Rationalist. Have zeroed on Ecosport AT & Jazz AT. The only let down in Jazz is the cap next to the steering column where the start button would have been and no magic seat. If this two was there then by this time I would be driving Jazz AT. So Ecosport comes on top on my list. With my sedate driving, hope I can get 11-12 kmpl in city. Is this possible?
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Old 20th October 2015, 10:04   #314
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

@Houston,
My suggestion would be Jazz in that case.
Reasons:
- If you are confused, it is best to stick with the top brands - Honda, Toyota, Maruti and also Hyundai. They give you largest service network and peace of mind. Other brands try to bring in features as bells and whistles but with very less research and testing, resulting in less reliability. Honda/toyota on the other hand do merciless tests and verifications to ensure you dont get poor quality. Their reliability is legendary even in US.
- Petrol Vs diesel polarization and benefits/disadvantages are not as extreme as it is made out to be, unless you are a taxi driver.
- Ideally limit your budget around 4 times the monthly salary of you and your spouse combined. Although if you love a particular car, then this doesn't matter.
- Don't reject Hyundai just because of supposedly older design of gearbox. Newer isn't always better. The question to ask is what does it give you. Imagine if you have an old faithful servant and a new one comes in as an option. Wouldn't you rather evaluate how the newer servant is going to benefit you rather than just dismissing your old servant?
- My Ciaz with conventional AT gives 10-13 kmpl in city and 18-19kmpl on highway. You can expect +/-1 from jazz/ecosport.
Final point is, if you love a car during test drive, you will love it all your life. same for inverse too. Whereas money difference will feel like a pinch in the beginning but will be forgotten soon.

Oh and my 2011 Ford Ikon 1.6 has been to garage far many more times than any of my marutis, including M800 '98. So personally I would avoid Ford as compared to any Japanese car.
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Old 21st October 2015, 02:24   #315
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

I have created a simple Excel to calculate the whether it is beneficial to buy a Petrol or a Diesel car. This may be useful to come to a decision purely from the economic angle leaving aside likes and dislikes which are subjective.
Attached Files
File Type: xlsx Petrol-Diesel.xlsx (16.9 KB, 429 views)
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