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Old 28th October 2015, 13:02   #331
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by itsashishsharma View Post
Fiesta? You mean Figo/Aspire. Right?
My bad. Yes, I stand corrected. I meant new Figo AT. I'm sorry. BTW, took Figo AT for a spin and liked it very much. A very potent alternative to Polo TSI, I would say. You lose very very little over Polo, in terms of acceleration, but gain a great deal over Polo in terms of more usable and practical car. And not to speak of Rs. 2 Lakh saving.
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Old 28th October 2015, 20:20   #332
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by amit_2025 View Post
Folks, I am in a dilemma

I had booked a Hyundai Creta (for the second time) scheduled to be delivered early next year. While the Creta ticked most boxes (most importantly a DIESEL A/T), but I have consistently been worried about the lack of features in a 16L Car (Speed sensing door lock, Leather(ite) seats etc.)

This car is primarily to replace my SX4 (which I intend to retain)

Now the dilemma; I am thinking of going for a Baleno instead of the Creta as it is appealing more to both the head and the heart

Sadly, with the A/T being available only in the Petrol version, I might have to compromise on the Fuel expenses. The average daily running of the vehicle is 50-60 kms

With an ownership horizon of 2-3 years and an annual running of around 15000kms, how much of a difference will it make?

It's finally a choice between three things:

- Purchase the Petrol CVT Baleno
- Purchase the Top end Diesel and compromise on the convenience of the A/T
- Stick to the Creta purchase and miss out on multiple features and also spend more?
Your question suggests that you are very confused about buying your new car. Both cars are in different segment. Baleno is a premium hatchback. You need to ask whether to buy Baleno or I20 or Jazz?

When you are looking at Creta, you look at Creta or Duster or Eco Sport etc. Anyway, Creta will be a long wait, several months I think.

Nevertheless, first you have to think about what do you prefer or need. People who go on highways quite a lot usually prefer compact SUVs for their clearance on bad roads and their power to cruise at high speeds. For just town, a lot of people prefer hatchbacks due to smaller size and easier driving in busy cities and traffic.

You cannot compare compact SUV to a hatchback. And plus both are entirely in different budget. So depending on your budget, you can easily decide which car. If you don't want to spend 16L on a car, then look at hatchbacks or Sedans. Baleno is good for a hatchback. Compare it with i20 and pick which looks/drives better. Test drive them both and see which feels good on roads.

My calculations for Petrol vs Diesel is that you need to do 60-70k kms to break even. With 50 kms a day. It can take you 4 years to break even. By then you might even be changing your car. Post 4 years, you may spend like 2000 a month extra on fuel expenses. So it is not really a big deal, go for Petrol without any problems if you have an option available.
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Old 28th October 2015, 21:05   #333
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by greatestmj View Post
Your question suggests that you are very confused about buying your new car. Both cars are in different segment. Baleno is a premium hatchback. You need to ask whether to buy Baleno or I20 or Jazz?
I definitely am confused, thus the query :-)

Shopping across these two segments primarily because there are three fundamental requirements:

- The Car needs to be Compact but spacious
- Needs to be Premium and high quality
- Needs to be an A/T

I have already begun to find the i20 a little dated (no offence meant to anyone) and while it's definitely a looker, may be I prefer more sober, timeless designs. The Honda Jazz's price and interiors just don't appeal to me

The Duster's interiors are best least spoken about and will be checking out the new ecosport over the weekend

I have already booked the Creta and expecting the delivery only in 2016 but some of the basic missing features for a 16L Car keep making me re consider; In the interim I hope there are more Petrol/Diesel A/T options launched from reliable Car Makers

Although I think my post probably needs to be now in the "Which car" section as the petrol vs. diesel question stands answered :-)

Last edited by amit_2025 : 28th October 2015 at 21:12.
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Old 28th October 2015, 22:21   #334
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by vasudeva View Post
Diesel for transport is no longer subsidised. The price difference and higher petrol price is due to higher excise duty (Rs. 7.2) and higher VAT (Rs. 5-6). In fact, the oil companies are not making any underrecoveries on diesel since mid-September 2014.
Thanks for correcting me. Based on recent trends in diesel and petrol prices, I felt that the prices were still converging, refer http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/49392242.cms

In recent times, it seemed that Diesel hikes were higher than Petrol hikes, and at the time of price drops, Petrol was lowered a bit more than Diesel most of the time.

I think the diesel vs petrol comparison I shared above based on current prices still makes sense, although we may now want to assume that the price gap between diesel and petrol may not converge significantly in the future.
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Old 30th October 2015, 13:38   #335
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by mustang_shelby View Post

I think the diesel vs petrol comparison I shared above based on current prices still makes sense, although we may now want to assume that the price gap between diesel and petrol may not converge significantly in the future.
Market situation is such that it may not. As of now, petrol has higher excise and given fiscal situation, may not be reduced.
Oil prices are likely to stay low and so Govt is under no pressure to reduce petrol excise and reduce overall prices. If oil prices go to $80-100/bbl (highly unlikely), then we may see some tinkering on taxes so as to reduce the burden.
For diesel to increase would require higher taxes, which seems unlikely unless mandated by courts. The Govt claims that pollution is all from unknown sources. Diwali crackers do not cause pollution, diesel does not, and so on.
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Old 30th October 2015, 14:08   #336
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Just crossed my mind:
If one were to really benefit from diesel car economically, one has to buy a car, one segment lower / a lower variant compared to what you would buy as petrol. That way, every time you visit the petrol pump, the savings due to filling up diesel are real savings right from day 1.
e.g. The cheapest diesel you could buy would cost 4.72L for Celerio (B1 segment). But for this price, you could buy a Grand i10 petrol base variant at 4.69L. Other way around, if you are looking at a Grand i10 base petrol, if you go a segment lower and purchase Celerio Diesel at 4.72L, you can start saving on fuel from almost the first time you fill up diesel.
If the mind is fixed on particular car - again I take Grand i10 for example, the petrol top end Asta(O) costs 5.87L, a similar priced Diesel Magna variant costs 5.75L. If such a compromise is not made, choosing a diesel car is pricier.
But if the top variant Asta(O) of diesel is bought at 6.74L, the premium paid for diesel is 87K.
Assuming 15kmpl mileage and diesel saving you Rs.15 per litre, the difference in petrol and diesel would be Rs.1 per km. So, assuming every other factor such as inflation, interest rate, diesel subsidy, maintenance cost, mileage remains constant, you should drive more than 87K km to break even. This would take about 5-6 years for an average middle class office-goer.

Rethinking my above logic, if one can satisfy himself with a lower segment diesel car, why not buy a petrol car from such lower segment to add to the savings?

I know that all calculations such as the above goes out of the window, when we see an attractive new car, with mouth watering torque figure!
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Old 30th October 2015, 15:41   #337
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Here is a comparison of the costs for a hypothetical trip. FE numbers may be off but the difference will not alter the point I am trying to make.

Total round-trip kms: 3000

FE of the petrol car: 15
Petrol required: 3000/15 = 200 ltrs
Rate of petrol: Rs. 65/ltr
Total cost of petrol: Rs. 13,000 (65*200)

FE of the equivalent diesel car: 20
Diesel required: 3000/20 = 150 ltrs
Rate of diesel: Rs. 50/ltr
Total cost of diesel: Rs. 7,500 (50*150)

For a diesel owner who loves to drive, it becomes much easier to convince self as well as family that taking the car is a better option rather than riding a bus or train*. Savings made while purchasing the (petrol) car would not come into the picture at that time - that's just human nature IMHO.

For me, one time higher payment is preferable compared to making a higher payment every time I go to the pump. I guess with diesel I will "find" more opportunities (or less reasons to avoid the need) for traveling.

* Not comparing with flight because the travel times will be comparable in car, bus or train.
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Old 30th October 2015, 15:51   #338
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_2025 View Post
- The Car needs to be Compact but spacious
- Needs to be Premium and high quality
- Needs to be an A/T
Why not consider TUV 3OO?

- The car is less than 4m and still is very spacious. Though in a way it's not compact, it's quite imposing. But with a better stance than Creta
- Plastic quality is much better than XUV and Xylo. Though not Hyundai good.
- It's a diesel AMT
- Costs a lot cheaper than Creta, that's an added bonus! :-D

Quote:
Originally Posted by sohu9 View Post
Here is a comparison of the costs for a hypothetical trip. FE numbers may be off but the difference will not alter the point I am trying to make.

Total round-trip kms: 3000

Total cost of petrol: Rs. 13,000 (65*200)

Total cost of diesel: Rs. 7,500 (50*150)

For a diesel owner who loves to drive, it becomes much easier to convince self as well as family that taking the car is a better option rather than riding a bus or train*. Savings made while purchasing the (petrol) car would not come into the picture at that time - that's just human nature IMHO.

For me, one time higher payment is preferable compared to making a higher payment every time I go to the pump. I guess with diesel I will "find" more opportunities (or less reasons to avoid the need) for traveling.
That is exactly why our Santro is underutilized and is yet to cross 90K KM's. For me it is more like Rs. 6 /KM which by any standard is not pocket friendly if you have less than 5 persons on board. Moreover, it hurts visiting the petrol pump so many times and to see the needle going down faster with each mile.

Come Figo diesel, this is bound to change for good!!

I can use it for my daily commute which will be cheaper than the company transport or even my bike, for that matter.

Secondly, I intend to keep my car for longer duration, so somewhere down the line it is going to break-even.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hybridpetrol View Post
Just crossed my mind:
If one were to really benefit from diesel car economically, one has to buy a car, one segment lower / a lower variant compared to what you would buy as petrol.
Exactly my thinking when I chose Figo diesel over Jazz iVTECH. I love Jazz, I always have, but for the same OTR price of Jazz SV I could get myself a Figo 1.5D Titanium.

So when compared to Jazz, I am already saving with each running KM.

Last edited by Rehaan : 30th October 2015 at 17:43. Reason: Removing 3rd smiley, as per the rules :)
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Old 30th October 2015, 16:18   #339
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by teemus View Post
Why not consider TUV 3OO?

- The car is less than 4m and still is very spacious. Though in a way it's not compact, it's quite imposing. But with a better stance than Creta
- Plastic quality is much better than XUV and Xylo. Though not Hyundai good.
- It's a diesel AMT
- Costs a lot cheaper than Creta, that's an added bonus!
Couple of reasons:

- They cut it around 0.25 meters short to make the back and side profile look incomplete (Personal opinion, may differ from P2P); would have been a looker had they "completed" the car proportionately. I had posted this even on the TUV thread that this obsession of keeping the cars under 4m to avail benefits makes a lot of promising designs look wierd
- I am not really a SUV fan boy and ride quality is of prime importance, which will be compromised in a Body on Frame set up. That's another reason for not considering the Scorpio A/T too

Last edited by amit_2025 : 30th October 2015 at 16:20.
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Old 27th November 2015, 12:32   #340
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Sorry to say this. It really surprises me, saddens even, to see people buying a 15 lakh car and then going on self sacrificing rampages, such as turning off the AC, to save fuel. Reminds me of people who reduce having particular pulses/vegetables as the prices go high. Worrying about mileage will totally prevent you from enjoying the full benefits and power of the engine in Creta. Rather at this point of time, one should worry about what car is most suitable for comfort/features.

But if you are still confused about petrol vs diesel, let me increase your confusion by telling you that petrol car will run at a fraction of diesel by just getting a CNG kit installed. A kit from authorized dealer will only cost 30-50k (need to check prices) and a bit of space is compromised. Although Creta already has excessive space, so no issue there. Overall cost premium is nowhere near the multiple-lakh premium of diesel. And Yes the power is still comparable to corresponding Diesel cars.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_2025 View Post
I definitely am confused, thus the query :-)

Shopping across these two segments primarily because there are three fundamental requirements:

- The Car needs to be Compact but spacious
- Needs to be Premium and high quality
- Needs to be an A/T

I have already begun to find the i20 a little dated (no offence meant to anyone) and while it's definitely a looker, may be I prefer more sober, timeless designs. The Honda Jazz's price and interiors just don't appeal to me

The Duster's interiors are best least spoken about and will be checking out the new ecosport over the weekend

I have already booked the Creta and expecting the delivery only in 2016 but some of the basic missing features for a 16L Car keep making me re consider; In the interim I hope there are more Petrol/Diesel A/T options launched from reliable Car Makers

Although I think my post probably needs to be now in the "Which car" section as the petrol vs. diesel question stands answered :-)
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Old 27th November 2015, 13:59   #341
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by ChupaRustam View Post
Sorry to say this. It really surprises me, saddens even, to see people buying a 15 lakh car and then going on self sacrificing rampages, such as turning off the AC

But if you are still confused about petrol vs diesel, let me increase your confusion by telling you that petrol car will run at a fraction of diesel by just getting a CNG kit installed
:-) That won't add to the confusion as a CNG Kit is out of the question. I prefer keeping my cars stock even on the accessories front as far as possible, so CNG installation is a big no no

Also, not against CNG vehicles but I have seen even the best sequential kits, installed from better places having a major impact on drive ability of performance in friend's cars

Additionally, I don't want to be standing in those CNG ques after spending a bomb on a vehicle

My confusion had started because I was looking at an almost equally comfortable car at half the cost of a Creta which misses out on some very important yet basic features
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Old 27th November 2015, 14:18   #342
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Originally Posted by amit_2025 View Post

My confusion had started because I was looking at an almost equally comfortable car at half the cost of a Creta which misses out on some very important yet basic features
I'm going to say something that is very different. Take a test drive of all the short listed cars and buy the one that you like. Forget the petrol/diesel, hatchback/compact SUV etc. Just go with your heart. Because after crunching all the numbers, ultimately you are going to live with that car and you should not regret the purchasing decision. Yes, maybe you'll end up paying 1-2 rupees more per km than another car, but you'll never feel that you bought the wrong car.
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Old 27th November 2015, 14:24   #343
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by blackwasp View Post
I'm going to say something that is very different. Take a test drive of all the short listed cars and buy the one that you like. Forget the petrol/diesel, hatchback/compact SUV etc. Just go with your heart. Because after crunching all the numbers, ultimately you are going to live with that car and you should not regret the purchasing decision. Yes, maybe you'll end up paying 1-2 rupees more per km than another car, but you'll never feel that you bought the wrong car.
Absolutely :-)

I was willing to make a choice between a Petrol and Diesel, but not between Manual and A/T for a daily drive

The choice now is between the Creta and XUV A/T
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Old 27th November 2015, 18:42   #344
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Originally Posted by amit_2025 View Post
Absolutely :-)



I was willing to make a choice between a Petrol and Diesel, but not between Manual and A/T for a daily drive



The choice now is between the Creta and XUV A/T

I was about to suggest you the XUV but then i recalled your requirement of a compact but spacious vehicle.

If that is not really a concern, go for the XUV. You can choose your pick (W8/W10/AWD/FWD).

Most importantly you will get the two things you are worried of i.e. AT and loads of features which will make you feel that you got the worth of your money.

What is the delivery date give to you for the Creta?

Have you checked about XUV AT too ?
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Old 11th December 2015, 16:29   #345
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Having been a petrol car owner all along, been considering (i.e. torn between) petrol and diesel 7 seater. Read several posts here on TBHP and other similar sites, including several pages of this thread, but given the recent moves in Delhi, fuelled by Delhi HC asking govt to take urgent measures to contain pollution, I am wondering on several aspects of buying a diesel vehicle.
  • What is the real useful life of a diesel vehicle like Ertiga or Lodgy in terms of engine life, and body life ? (Given that it is self driven, private use, careful driver, decent maintenance etc. Also, not talking about the high-end German engineered vehicles.)
  • What is the likelihood of diesel vehicles older than 10yrs being disallowed in most populated metros and large cosmopolitan cities, in the next 5-6 years ?
  • With most of the resale of diesel vehicles (people movers), apparently happening to taxi segment, what is the likely reaction of the govt moves to limit age-based usage ?
  • What happens to the older BS2 and BSIII vehicles, as soon as BSIV becomes mandatory ? How badly is the resale value hit due to this ?
  • Is it really true that diesel vehicle has 15-20% better resale value, compared to petrol vehicle ? (assuming that there are no particularly strong negative reviews about the vehicle) ?
  • Resale value of vehicles is better for which trim -- entry-level (often favoured by cabbies, if it has basic passenger comforts), mid-range or top-range ?
Please excuse the crazy focus on resale value and "life" of vehicle, but it is so because, I've pretty much evaluated on other fronts, and trying hard to settle the push-pull between petrol and diesel.

Last edited by bdutta : 11th December 2015 at 16:31.
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