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Old 12th May 2016, 11:16   #406
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
Thank you for the kind words.

My suggestion - take TDs of them back-to-back (if possible) and think over the whole list of your requirements, then take a decision. I have a hunch you will be happy with whichever one you choose.

Good luck!
Thank you for your guidance Avi

Took delivery of the Petrol AT on Sunday :-)
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Old 12th May 2016, 11:40   #407
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by amit_2025 View Post
Thank you for your guidance Avi

Took delivery of the Petrol AT on Sunday :-)
Congratulations, Amit!

Yours is the first Creta petrol AT purchase in our forums, I believe.

Please do make an ownership thread on your wonderful car, detailing the lead-up to your purchase and your thought process behind your final decision, and why you preferred the petrol AT over the diesel AT. I am sure there must be plenty of valid reasons, other than the additional cost, which can be an eye-opener for several other prospective customers who are either sitting on the fence regarding this crucial decision, or simply cannot decide which one would be more beneficial to them in the long run.

Looking forward to reading your ownership report soon. All the best and I wish you and your steed plenty of happy (s)miles ahead. Revv' hard but drive safe!

Last edited by RavenAvi : 12th May 2016 at 11:44.
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Old 12th May 2016, 12:28   #408
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
Congratulations, Amit!

Yours is the first Creta petrol AT purchase in our forums, I believe.

Please do make an ownership thread on your wonderful car, detailing the lead-up to your purchase and your thought process behind your final decision, and why you preferred the petrol AT over the diesel AT. I am sure there must be plenty of valid reasons, other than the additional cost, which can be an eye-opener for several other prospective customers who are either sitting on the fence regarding this crucial decision, or simply cannot decide which one would be more beneficial to them in the long run.

Looking forward to reading your ownership report soon. All the best and I wish you and your steed plenty of happy (s)miles ahead. Revv' hard but drive safe!
Absolutely, intend to write an ownership review as soon as I have clocked some miles

I benefited immensely from your thread and others on the forum and would love to share my experience soon
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Old 13th May 2016, 10:32   #409
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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2. The printer torque figures are PEAK numbers. Do we know what is the shape of this torque curve? It may peak very high, but drop quite low around the peak figure.
I agree with all your points, alpha1.

Not really a response, however, I have a few things to say about point 2.

Most turbo charged engines produce their peak torque over a range. That, the peak horsepower and the engine size can give some idea about the engine's torque curve. It is not so easy in case of an NA engine.

For e.g: Ford Figo 1.5 TDCI: 215 Nm @ 1750-3000 RPM; 99 HP @ 3750 RPM
S-Cross 1.6 DDiS; 320 Nm @ 1750 RPM; 118 HP @ 3750 RPM

For a 1.5 diesel, 215 Nm is not anything great, this gives away the fact that Ford is not trying to extract a fat peak torque out of it by using a huge turbo, but is trying to provide better drivability at low end minimizing the turbo lag. Also, that peak torque running for full 1250 RPM suggests that the torque curve is a nice flat, wide one in the mid range. Then if we look at the peak power, we can see that the TDCI manages to retain about 188 Nm at 3750 RPM or about 87.4% of peak.

With all these data, it's not hard to imagine the torque curve of the 1.5 TDCI.
In other words, we can say that there is a healthy amount of torque down low, a nice, wide mid range and a good top end till about 4000 RPM which tells why the car excels in both drivability and out right performance (light weight adds to it)

Coming to S-Cross, the 1.6 gets a huge turbo for that paper spec of 320 Nm of torque. The torque makes its presence felt too giving the owners a false sense of super fast car.
Now, 320 from a budget 1.6 guarantees one thing -> turbo lag and the S-Cross has it in loads.
The specs say that the S-Cross starts losing that fat torque immediately after its peak.
The meagre peak power gives away the fact that the torque drops to just 224 Nm at 3750 RPM, i.e. just 70% of peak.
Again, for an engine used in a budget car, there would be either a fat peak torque, or an average torque spread nicely over a wide range. The S-Cross gets the former.

The S-Cross' torque curve is also not hard to get right with all the data. It is dud below 1500-1600, spikes after that, reaches its peak at 1750, starts dropping off quite sharply after that.
===================

On topic:
As a result, it gives a false sense of super fastness to the drivers while it is not so quick in reality (compared to 2.0 TDIs making that 320 Nm of peak torque weighing 200+ kg more). The 1.5 TDCI in Figo which does not give that massive turbo kick like the 1.6 DDiS beats it in terms of both outright performance and drivability (weight is just one factor, as the heavier Ecosport with lesser torque than Figo is not much slower than S-Cross 1.6 even though it feels like it). The Abarth Punto which weighs only a little less, leaves it in dust in terms of outright performance in spite of having just 212 Nm because of its wide power band.

Last edited by theredliner : 13th May 2016 at 10:53.
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Old 28th May 2016, 09:40   #410
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http://m.overdrive.in/reviews/afford...suzuki-baleno/

Baleno diesel, with a heavier nose is faster around the track than the Baleno petrol. I know how smooth, drivable and free to rev the Baleno's k-series is as I had a Swift with the same engine, yet the diesel bettered it.
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Old 24th August 2016, 21:44   #411
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Come 2020, and with the BS-VI emission norms kicking in, the Indian small car market could be completely dominated by petrols while diesel options might be restricted to larger cars and SUVs only.

The single biggest reason for this is that the investments required to upgrade diesel engines to BS-VI norms is very, very high, and as such is not economically viable for smaller cars (hatchbacks) which have low profit margins. New technologies such as the 'lean NOx trap' (for passenger vehicles) and 'selective catalytic reduction' (for trucks and buses) cost a bomb and thus overall costs associated with a diesel car will increase exponentially.

This is why major car manufacturers are not in the process of developing any smaller capacity diesel engines for the future.

Sumit Sawhney, country CEO and managing director, Renault India:

Quote:
"It does not make sense investing in small diesel engines for India considering that in less than four years, the market will graduate to Bharat Stage VI. Investment in BS VI diesel engine is much higher vis-a-vis gasoline.

Our understanding is that by 2020, the small car market will be petrol while diesel will be seen only for large cars and SUVs (sports utility vehicles). That is why Renault is not working on any small diesel engine programme."
C V Raman, executive director of engineering, Maruti Suzuki:

Quote:
"It will put a lot of pressure on cost and development. The gap between petrol and diesel vehicles today is Rs 1 lakh; it will go up to Rs 2 lakh when the new regulations come in. The customer will decide if diesel is still relevant for him or not.

I won't be able to comment right now if we would be continuing investment in diesel."
Girish Wagh, senior vice-president (programme planning and project management), Tata Motors:

Quote:
"We are talking to technology partners and suppliers to get clarity on what needs to be done for BS VI. There are two important regulatory changes which are going to happen. One is BNVSAP (Bharat New Vehicle Safety Assessment Program) and the other is BS VI. You will, therefore, have some of our older products getting phased out at these milestones and they will get replaced with new ones.

Tiago is a completely new platform and engine so it is capable of meeting both these regulatory requirements when they come up. Our product plan is about which products will get repositioned where and which products will get phased out."
According to an ICRA report:

Quote:
"As diesel vehicles will undergo significant technology changes, the cost differential between petrol and diesel passenger vehicles is likely to expand further. This will widen the payback period for diesel vehicles and adversely impact demand, which is already on a declining trend since FY15."
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Also, with new-generation petrol cars such as the Tata Tiago, the Maruti Suzuki Celerio and the Renault Kwid offering fuel efficiency figures of upto 25 kms to the litre, petrol cars have suddenly jumped in the mileage ladder and are now almost at par with their diesel counterparts, which cost more and are also quite expensive to maintain.

The Tata Tiago, for example, comes with the option of a 1.05-litre diesel engine (its smallest for a passenger vehicle), yet, 70 per cent of the model's sales come from the petrol variants.

As such, car companies will be keen to divert their investments in developing newer models, instead of concentrating their energies and investments on upgrading engines to BS-VI norms AND make them economically viable to the regular Indian customer at the same time.

Business Standard

Last edited by RavenAvi : 24th August 2016 at 21:47.
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