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Old 2nd March 2014, 16:19   #121
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by StarScream View Post
The facts are actually very clear cut, with no ambiguity. They are both dirty fuels - it's just that in India we have made more progress in improving petrol quality to an extent that we will have little issue in moving to higher emission standards. Diesel is an entirely different issue and you and me pay an intangible cost in terms of its health effects.

I discovered this entirely through publicly available research while considering changing one of my cars. My attempt has been to try and share the facts so that I can change some mindsets within the community.

Perhaps I need to start a new thread to do that.
Your point and intention are well understood and I do not intend to counter them. But as a customer I might not want to pay a bomb to meet my basic need of commuting to earn and live a life because of the government's lack of vision in terms of inadequate public infrastructure and exorbitant taxes on petrol. So it boils down to the fact that with me shifting to a petrol car in the spirit of the larger good will only make me pay larger fuel bills when at the same time everyone else goes on enjoying the benefits or otherwise from there diesel cars. So this love for contributing less to the pollution level fizzles out when the alternative is to pay almost double for your fuel expenses. Rather I can continue to use diesel cars and contribute my share towards lessening the burden on earth in other forms like conserving water, electricity and generating less waste etc etc. Afterall this sense of contributing towards the environment is a very personal one where every individual does what they find suitable according to there lifestyle and ease. If we were all that concerned about the environment and pollution levels then we should actually not even use petrol cars and move to hybrid cars ( even if the options currently are limited). Afterall most cars still run within the city where a hybrid car can make the cut easily. Another argument can be everyone should shift to small hatchbacks which are more fuel efficient and possibly contribute less during there manufacturing process. So the point stays that this is a very complex issue and the mere argument that diesel causes more pollution might not find many takers. Hence for the sake of discussion on our forum we should rather stick only to the economics part of it.
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Old 8th March 2014, 08:51   #122
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Hello friends!

I can see that this thread has started moving in a different direction from where it started. I have a question that brings us back to the core issue.

I am considering buying a Linea T-Jet Emotion, 2014 facelift. Reasons - it is probably the best petrol performer in the <11L range. My usage is not likely to exceed 10-12K km annually.

Now a new twist to the tale. I am getting a Vento TDI Highline for nearly the same price, after some hefty concessions. Considering that the capital cost of the best-in-segment Petrol and Diesel are now nearly the same for me, should I consider shifting to the Vento?
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Old 8th March 2014, 11:12   #123
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by ganeshnag75 View Post
Hello friends!

I can see that this thread has started moving in a different direction from where it started. I have a question that brings us back to the core issue.

I am considering buying a Linea T-Jet Emotion, 2014 facelift. Reasons - it is probably the best petrol performer in the <11L range. My usage is not likely to exceed 10-12K km annually.

Now a new twist to the tale. I am getting a Vento TDI Highline for nearly the same price, after some hefty concessions. Considering that the capital cost of the best-in-segment Petrol and Diesel are now nearly the same for me, should I consider shifting to the Vento?
I would suggest, test drive both the cars extensively & check out which one amongst the two would give you the maximum pleasure, go for that one.

Though the Vento would be friendly on the pocket as far as running costs are concerned, it would definitely be costlier to maintain compared to the T-Jet. Also you will have to live with the clattery & noisy TDi engine compared to the Linea's refined T-Jet. Another advantage of the Vento would be that it would definitely fetch higher price during resale. So if the returns are concerned, then Vento would score over the Linea T-Jet, but the sheer pleasure of driving the T-Jet would be unmatched.

Last edited by AutoIndian : 8th March 2014 at 11:14.
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Old 8th March 2014, 12:24   #124
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by ganeshnag75 View Post
Hello friends!

I can see that this thread has started moving in a different direction from where it started. I have a question that brings us back to the core issue.

I am considering buying a Linea T-Jet Emotion, 2014 facelift. Reasons - it is probably the best petrol performer in the <11L range. My usage is not likely to exceed 10-12K km annually.

Now a new twist to the tale. I am getting a Vento TDI Highline for nearly the same price, after some hefty concessions. Considering that the capital cost of the best-in-segment Petrol and Diesel are now nearly the same for me, should I consider shifting to the Vento?
If your yearly running is in excess of 10k km and you are getting a Diesel for the same price of a Petrol, then yes you will definitely begin to save more money even if you include maintenance costs.

It will never be the same though
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Old 9th March 2014, 07:02   #125
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

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Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
If your yearly running is in excess of 10k km and you are getting a Diesel for the same price of a Petrol, then yes you will definitely begin to save more money even if you include maintenance costs.

It will never be the same though
With the ever narrowing differential in pricingI will be tempted towards to 20,000kmpa mark. I expect the trend of reducing differential to continue, with possible acceleration post election, but diesel is likely to remain about Rs.5 or so per litre cheaper for quite some time. Agrarian politics will keep a differential taxation structure.
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Old 9th March 2014, 11:05   #126
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

I am planning to buy my next ride within 8L ex show room bracket. I am not worried about the on road price considering the car would be purchased under the car lease policy and the EMIs would be based on ex show room price.
I am confused between buying a Diesel Hatch or Petrol Sedan, appreciate your views in solving the confusion
i) My yearly usage is 6k till date and might grow to 10k per year at the maximum. I would like to work my calculation based on latter figure.
ii) Since it is a company lease car, I don't have to pay any down payment and hence its EMI all over. Additional cost for diesel car is translated into additional monthly EMI for 4 years.

I am more keen on buying a petrol Sedan considering it to be a different segment all together but the fuel costs & mileage keeps me confused. My choices are i20 Diesel or Verna VTVT EX as I already have a Polo & have driven all cars from the current Maruti stable.
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Old 9th March 2014, 16:15   #127
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Looking at your monthly/yearly mileage, it makes a lot of sense to go for a petrol Sedan. You would end up getting a higher variant of Petrol at the same price. If you can stretch the budget a bit, my recommendation would be to go for Honday City V/VX, though there may be some waiting period for the Petrol variant.

If you cannot wait, then Verna would be a safe bet - tried and tested. Also the new 2014 model has awesome alloys and comes with DRLs as well.
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Old 11th March 2014, 18:47   #128
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

An update. Turns out that I can get the same concessions on Vento Petrol 1.6 too (not on the TSI). With my limited usage, should I consider the Vento Petrol instead?

A Vento vs Linea comparison may be out of place here. I will also post in on the correct thread.
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Old 15th March 2014, 12:45   #129
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Default Re: Petrol versus Diesel Cars

Had read an excerpt in the Economic Times (Delhi edition – 11 March’14) regarding the Government’s fuel efficiency norms that will come into effect from April 2106 for cars and UVs. Main points:

- Minimum mileage formula based on the number of cars sold, weight & fuel type
- Current average weight is 1037 kgs
- Current average is 16 kmpl, which would have to be 18.2 kmpl by 2016
- Lighter the car, the more fuel efficient it is supposed to be, under the new formula
- Currently only 35% of the total cars meet the proposed fuel efficiency norms and majority of those are powered by diesel or CNG
- Out of 342 passenger car models on road, only 223 vehicles meet the proposed norm
- Not much cost escalation expected to meet the norms
- Stricter norms proposed to come into effect in 2021, will result in 10-15% increase in cost of cars
- Car companies will have to make investments to meet stricter emission norms
- Substantial savings in fuel related cost for both the consumers (usage) and the government (procurement)

I feel though the proposed norms are in the right direction, but it will result in:
- cars becoming lighter and possibly less safer
- engines will be further detuned and most cars will be dull to drive, especially normally aspirated petrol powered hatchbacks – due to their lesser torque

Sales of diesel vehicles are far more than CNG vehicles, and diesel vehicles are volume sellers (more than 50% of total car sales) – so it can be assumed that majority of cars (by volume) meeting the proposed fuel efficiency norms are diesel engined. Consequently diesel engined vehicles will not require much changes. Vehicles meeting the norms will mostly be hatchbacks & compact sedans, considering they are the most fuel efficient of the lot.

Another interesting thing to watch out for will be the car safety norms that are also stipulated to be put in place by next year. It will be interesting to see how safety and fuel efficiency is balanced by car manufacturers.
Attached Thumbnails
Petrol versus Diesel Cars-etfuelefficiencyarticle11mar14.jpg  

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Old 4th April 2014, 09:54   #130
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Default Petrol or Diesel?

This car is for me only.

I am traveling close to 35 kms to work and back every day. I will conservatively add one 500 km trip per month. This takes it to a total running of 1500 km/month.

The car I get has to give me 15/litre of whatever fuel in the city. Which cars give this?

At current petrol prices, I will spend 8000 bucks on close to 100 litres of petrol. A similar diesel will cost me 6000 bucks. That's a difference of 2000 bucks per month.

I estimate a used Alto K10 will cost me 300,000 in Bangalore. I expect to spend upto 4,50,000 on a similarly specced used diesel. That is a difference of 1,50,000.

If I put this 150,000 in an FD at 7% p.a. (after TDS etc), I get 875 bucks a month.

If I buy a petrol alto, I lose 1200 bucks a month financially (deducting 875 bucks). If I just use the principal of 150,000 towards the fuel difference, it will last me 6 years in paying for the difference for the fuel (1.5 lakhs/rs 2000). Doesn't look so bad. Plus, I have 1.5 lakhs liquidity within the 6 year period (honestly this car will probably last me a year or two).

If I buy a diesel, I lose my liquidity - and it's probably a little more difficult to sell a more expensive car. That said, the diesel will be a more beefier car, might come with ABS and other knick knacks.

What do I do? Please let me know if my math is wrong.
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Old 4th April 2014, 11:14   #131
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Default Re: Petrol or Diesel?

Agreeing to the fact that Diesel car will be more robust ,would like to add up the maintenance cost ,since its a pre owned vehicle.This will not be helping you in the long run and your financial planning may go kaput.Its also observed that pre owned diesel vehicles have less mileage (kmpl).
My logic says to go for a petrol car.
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Old 4th April 2014, 13:08   #132
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Default Re: Petrol or Diesel?

Why aren't you considering CNG? Not many specimens in the used car mkt? Anyway, if you're ok with CNG + new, then the Alto 800 CNG comes for under 4L, I think.

Cheers,
Vikram

Last edited by comfortablynumb : 4th April 2014 at 13:13.
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Old 4th April 2014, 13:16   #133
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Red face Re: Petrol or Diesel?

@Red Liner,

You havent mentioned your budget and whether you are inclined to a new car. If your monthly running really exceeds 1200 kms then I would suggest opt for a new diesel car. Might prove costly now but will be more economical in the long run (considering that diesel prices would rarely reach the petrol price, thanks to our govt actions). If not then a new petrol car would suit you the most. If you are aiming for a mileage of 15 kmpl, then your running needs to be in a relatively traffic free route. If yes, then a fuel efficient petrol car from Maruti/Hyundai stable would be the one to look for.

I would suggest Wagon R or Ritz or i10 for your reqmts.
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Old 4th April 2014, 13:34   #134
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Default Re: Petrol or Diesel?

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Originally Posted by comfortablynumb View Post
Why aren't you considering CNG? Not many specimens in the used car mkt? Anyway, if you're ok with CNG + new, then the Alto 800 CNG comes for under 4L, I think.

Cheers,
Vikram
Hey Vikram, CNG availability is patchy. I don't like it. Will stick to regular fuels.

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Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
@Red Liner,

You havent mentioned your budget and whether you are inclined to a new car. If your monthly running really exceeds 1200 kms then I would suggest opt for a new diesel car. Might prove costly now but will be more economical in the long run (considering that diesel prices would rarely reach the petrol price, thanks to our govt actions). If not then a new petrol car would suit you the most. If you are aiming for a mileage of 15 kmpl, then your running needs to be in a relatively traffic free route. If yes, then a fuel efficient petrol car from Maruti/Hyundai stable would be the one to look for.

I would suggest Wagon R or Ritz or i10 for your reqmts.
I am only keen on a used car. With the current market environment, good deals can be had. I usually end up selling the car in a year or two, so buying a new car doesn't make sense (unless it's a 4x4 Duster - but a used TFort 4x4 might trump it).

I don't want to buy an alto and then get stuck with crazy fuel bills because it gives 11 kmpl in traffic. That will kill me. So are we realistically saying that an alto K10 is not going to give me more than 12 kmpl in Bangalore traffic?

I think my monthly running will easily go over 1200 kms. Just week-end trips alone will do it. Will be quite stupid to buy a car and NOT use it because it's expensive to run.
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Old 4th April 2014, 14:57   #135
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Default Re: Petrol or Diesel?

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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
I am only keen on a used car. With the current market environment, good deals can be had. I usually end up selling the car in a year or two...

I think my monthly running will easily go over 1200 kms. Just week-end trips alone will do it. Will be quite stupid to buy a car and NOT use it because it's expensive to run.
I have a friend who had a factory somewhere near Ambur and he bought an used diesel Indica to commute regularly to his factory from Madras. The rickety Indica gave him around 18-22 km per liter of diesel in the highways. He was happy with the mileage it gave despite the not-so-glamorous look of the car.

You can check out some of the probable cars and their mileage here:
http://www.madrasi.info/india-cars.php
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