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Old 28th June 2012, 12:09   #61
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Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

The Yeti makes a strong case at this price range. Funcky styling and great to drive (and not too bulky to be tough in traffic, just the right size), it thoroughly differentiates itself from the C segment sedans, and offers a package truly unique. I mean I would be happy with a Vento/Rapid/City and not really aspire for a Laura. But a Yeti in that lovely dark coffee color just looks so attractive a proposition that I would be excited for the upgrade! BS Motoring recently compared the X1 to the Q3 and concluded that the Yeti would make one just as happy!

Of course soon we'll have a bunch of affordable mini SUVs to compete for value. Skoda does have good brand value to make the Yeti aspirational.

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Old 28th June 2012, 12:30   #62
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Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
A thought just occurred to me : Things are so bad in the D1 segment that Honda hasn't even bothered to launch the new-generation Civic! This is unlike Honda which refreshes its Indian lineup immediately upon a global debut.

But Honda continues to flog a dead horse. It knows that the next-generation Civic isn't going to make any difference at all.
A related point, I was watching Autcar on Bloomberg UTV over the weekend (24-Jun-12) and guess what did Hormaz have to share in the scoop section?


"Honda is not going to launch the new civic in India. Reasons: It hasn't been received well in other markets and also lacks a diesel variant".
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Old 28th June 2012, 12:31   #63
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Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

One another point is that, the entire market segmentation has matured. The Verna, the Fiesta are humble successors of cars that were about 5-6 Lakhs. The First gen Honda City never costed so much. So the new C2 segment is actually in the price range of the old D1 segment!

The new C2 Segment would consits of Swift Dezires, Mahindra Veritos, Tata Manzas and Toyata Etios! When my cousin bought the Civic S variant, immediately after launch, he paid 11.8L on the road for it. Accord used to be around 17-18 Lakhs back then.

So I am saying, we cant just blame the D1 sedans for having their prices bumped up, the C2 has inflated hugely too! But the point about features especially the one against the Jetta without ACC and Vento HL with ACC is very well noted and accepted. What they offer for the goofed-up price tag matters. While the price difference between a Ikon and a Global Fiesta or the Accent and the Fluidic Verna can be justified with the features offered, Laura / Accord can't justify the same against their predecessors. At least, not as convincingly as the C2 sedans!
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Old 28th June 2012, 12:50   #64
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Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

True that the C1 segment cars have moved up to the previous D1 segment cars, even if you take inflation into account these cars do offer more when compared to say the first-gen honda city.

In the D1 segment however, i don't see a similar pattern. For eg, back in 2007 the Laura L&K costed 19lakhs OTR blore the same L&K cost ~23l OTR today, for the additional 4lakh you pay today, there's no significant additions which make the deal worth it.
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Old 28th June 2012, 13:45   #65
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Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

@GTO, This is a complete segment shift that these cars have made from the past C1 to C2 and now offering D1 features and engines too. So placing all these Vernas or HCs into C2 isnt probably the best thing. I guess they're now becoming the new D1s.

Look at their price and feature range from the base variant to the top end, they have left behind the C1, now partially fall into C2 like their predecessors and are penetrating into D1 with the top ends.

The thread should be rather on a positive note that the D1 segment is now becoming affordable and within reach, D2 and above were always for the few chosen ones.

The only issue is that the oldies of D1 need an overhaul and the job is done. Their bigger problem is the facelift and price-downshifts by the upper segment A4, 3 and C-class cadre.
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Old 28th June 2012, 13:53   #66
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Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

Another aspect is that a lot of the D1 market customers are executives getting into a senior level position. Cars below the D1 segment are usually family cars/ workhorses which get replaced or demand remains as people get promoted.

Due to the slowdown, options are status quo for senior level managers so their choice remains status quo. This was evident during the slowdown during 2008 when Civic sales took a tumble.
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Old 28th June 2012, 14:49   #67
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Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aravind.anand View Post
One another point is that, the entire market segmentation has matured. The Verna, the Fiesta are humble successors of cars that were about 5-6 Lakhs. The First gen Honda City never costed so much. So the new C2 segment is actually in the price range of the old D1 segment!

The new C2 Segment would consits of Swift Dezires, Mahindra Veritos, Tata Manzas and Toyata Etios! When my cousin bought the Civic S variant, immediately after launch, he paid 11.8L on the road for it. Accord used to be around 17-18 Lakhs back then.

So I am saying, we cant just blame the D1 sedans for having their prices bumped up, the C2 has inflated hugely too!
I concur completely. The price increase has happened in all segments, except for possibly the entry level sedans.

My assessment is that D1 does not sell that well cuz the pricing misses the 15 lac mark for fully loaded variants for most of the manufacturers, which is the sweet spot... And the manufacturers don't care - as long as the Citys, Vernas, Rapids, Ventos sell AT INFLATED PRICE POINTS....

However, IMO someone upgrading from a Fiesta/Baleno will definitely go for the D1 segment than a City, Verna (unless one wants city practicality and VFM, and does not care for status).
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Old 28th June 2012, 15:10   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shashank.nk

In the D1 segment however, i don't see a similar pattern. For eg, back in 2007 the Laura L&K costed 19lakhs OTR blore the same L&K cost ~23l OTR today, for the additional 4lakh you pay today, there's no significant additions which make the deal worth it.
I disagree! You get less as the sunroof has been deleted
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Old 28th June 2012, 15:47   #69
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Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

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I disagree! You get less as the sunroof has been deleted
I think you got me wrong there. I meant the Laura L&K of today, is about 4 lakh more than what it costed back in 2007. Sure it has a better engine and a more reliable DSG, even after taking inflation into account, i don't see much value in paying 23 lakhs for a Laura L&K today when compared to what it offered for 19 lakhs back in 2007.
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Old 28th June 2012, 15:55   #70
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Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shashank.nk View Post
I think you got me wrong there. I meant the Laura L&K of today, is about 4 lakh more than what it costed back in 2007. Sure it has a better engine and a more reliable DSG, even after taking inflation into account, i don't see much value in paying 23 lakhs for a Laura L&K today when compared to what it offered for 19 lakhs back in 2007.
With current discounts going on, you can get yourself a 3 series Corporate edition for around 26 L OTR. You get better engine, driving experience, plus snob value of a BMW. When one can buy L&K for 23 L, I'm sure he can extend his budget by 3 L and get himself a car from 2 segment above, rather paying 23L for a laura.

Then, why anyone will buy laura ? When you can get yourself a BMW for couple of more lakhs.

Cheers,
Sameer

Last edited by sameerg001 : 28th June 2012 at 15:57.
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Old 28th June 2012, 15:59   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shashank.nk View Post
I think you got me wrong there.
AFA my knowledge of English goes there is nothing wrong with Ajmat's post, infact he is supporting what you have mentioned and is further extending it by saying that in Laura you will get even one feature "less" (No Sun-roof) compared to older generation one, resulting in even less VFM.
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Old 28th June 2012, 16:27   #72
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Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

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Originally Posted by carwatcher View Post
AFA my knowledge of English goes there is nothing wrong with Ajmat's post, infact he is supporting what you have mentioned and is further extending it by saying that in Laura you will get even one feature "less" (No Sun-roof) compared to older generation one, resulting in even less VFM.
The reason why i felt he got me wrong there was, he stated he disagreed with me, while vouching for what i've posted. Hope it clears things out. If you read my post completely, i'm sure you'll get what i was trying to say.

Last edited by shashank.nk : 28th June 2012 at 16:44. Reason: Added a sentence
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Old 28th June 2012, 17:35   #73
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Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

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Originally Posted by shashank.nk View Post
The reason why i felt he got me wrong there was, he stated he disagreed with me, while vouching for what i've posted. Hope it clears things out. If you read my post completely, i'm sure you'll get what i was trying to say.
I think you are missing the irony in his post -- irony does not always translate well on the Internet. Which is why emoticons such as were created!

As for your original point, the price of the Laura has increased (using your numbers) 21% since 2007. However the Wholesale Price Index for automobiles has risen 20% between April 2007 and April 2012 and for cars 14% in the same period.

So high in comparison with the index for cars (which is most relevant to this discussion) but not in comparison with vehicles overall and certainly well below the 43% rise in the WPI which represents wholesale price inflation.

Last edited by Car Fan : 28th June 2012 at 17:50.
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Old 28th June 2012, 18:44   #74
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Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Car Fan View Post
I think you are missing the irony in his post -- irony does not always translate well on the Internet. Which is why emoticons such as were created!

As for your original point, the price of the Laura has increased (using your numbers) 21% since 2007. However the Wholesale Price Index for automobiles has risen 20% between April 2007 and April 2012 and for cars 14% in the same period.

So high in comparison with the index for cars (which is most relevant to this discussion) but not in comparison with vehicles overall and certainly well below the 43% rise in the WPI which represents wholesale price inflation.
I don't know what Ajmat meant in his post if the figures you've quoted are correct, then yes the Laura's price increase is well within the WPI for cars.

The same WPI may be the reason C2 segment cars are now priced closer to D1 segment cars were, 5 years ago. My point is in the C2 segment, cars are better equipped now (engine, features etc) than they were say 5 or 6 years ago. The customer has a 'perception' of more VFM, even though the additional features are at a price. With D2 i see an increase in price, with no corresponding increase in VFM quotient.
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Old 28th June 2012, 22:30   #75
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Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

Mod Note : As per the recent mass PM, please do NOT use acronyms when referring to cars. You are ONLY permitted to use the full Make & Model name. Any further usage of acronyms will invite severe Moderator action on your account. Thanks

Last edited by GTO : 29th June 2012 at 13:36.
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