Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 21st September 2012, 12:51   #106
Distinguished - BHPian
 
vb-san's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: S'pore/Thrissur
Posts: 4,690
Thanked: 3,860 Times
Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nik_kapur View Post
Now i feel the C segment cars offer better styling, more equipment and there is nothing in the D1 segment that i desire !
Well, one area which the D1 segment still scores high (over regular C segment) is on Safety. Outside India, you can get a Polo sized car with 6-airbags, ABS, ESP etc., but for us still the safety options upto C-segment peaks at 2 airbags + ABS (Hyundai i20, Verna being the exceptions).
vb-san is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2012, 12:58   #107
BHPian
 
nik_kapur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 991
Thanked: 465 Times
Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

Quote:
Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
Well, one area which the D1 segment still scores high (over regular C segment) is on Safety. Outside India, you can get a Polo sized car with 6-airbags, ABS, ESP etc., but for us still the safety options upto C-segment peaks at 2 airbags + ABS (Hyundai i20, Verna being the exceptions).
Agreed and also when you drive a City and Civic at 120. The Civic is far superior, better sound insulation and overall poise. Below 100 i cant say the Civics a better car.

Since i will use the car for work, i feel a C Segment sedan is a better deal even if one can afford a D1. Also the Civic, Corolla, and Cruze do not offer 6 Airbags !! So the C Segment cars arent inferior in that way.
nik_kapur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st September 2012, 15:14   #108
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 1,335
Thanked: 921 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nik_kapur

I'm planning to move on from a Civic to a new car and over the last few days I've been driving my moms City to work as my cars in the workshop. I find the City so much easier to take to work and maneuver around town. !
I can quite relate to what you're saying. I have a civic AT and just bought a sunny D for the wife. Mom meanwhile has a City AT. Ever since I've bought the sunny I find myself using it quite happily to be chauffeured to office etc. On many occasions if I'm driving myself, I've often started using my moms City and its so convenient to use to potter about in the city and in traffic. It just feels light, relaxed and effortless to pilot around. Am slowly becoming quite a fan of the city although on long drives the weapon of choice remains the civic.
Axe77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2012, 19:35   #109
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jam-luru
Posts: 259
Thanked: 57 Times
Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

One common thing that I notice in the posts is that the people who tend to agree with the diminishing value are all those who own multiple cars including the higher end ones.
So it is fair to conclude that if he already owns a > D1 segment car he obviously don't see the value. For the 'aam admi' the D1 will still continue to an aspiration and also a reckoner that he has finally arrived.
LonelyPlanet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2012, 21:07   #110
Senior - BHPian
 
V-16's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: mumbai
Posts: 4,575
Thanked: 844 Times
Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

Well, in today's times, it has become so easy to own a car that almost every house has one car per person, if not more. Also the competition between cars and the prices some of them are selling is what tweaks this. I feel so many cars and so many buyers, its easier to get a good quality almost new car for the depreciated value, then why not. Most people will buy a car and get bored of it or will realize they dont have a place to park or that a newer, face lifted model has come in, so will gladly sell the older one. Its become like mobile phones....lucky for us used car hounders.
V-16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2012, 22:05   #111
Senior - BHPian
 
aaggoswami's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Vadodara
Posts: 4,675
Thanked: 1,426 Times
Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

I am not sure whether others will agree with my point or not, but IMO, the D segment cars have their own advantages.
The biggest being sound insulation. Corolla, even though not offering class leading sound insulation, is very nice place to be in. Compare that with cars like Vento, City, SX4, etc. and its apparent that over a longer distance, the D segment cars would be more comfortable.

Second advantage as compared to MUV, etc. is that body roll is less, hence leading to more comfort.

These two parameters become apparent when one has to cover a lot of distance in a day or has a lot of traveling.

From driver's point of view, SUV/MUV may hold their advantage of higher seating, etc. but from passenger comfort, D segment cars are still very good for long distance traveling.
aaggoswami is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 22nd September 2012, 22:13   #112
BHPian
 
abhi413's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Pune
Posts: 214
Thanked: 101 Times
Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LonelyPlanet View Post
One common thing that I notice in the posts is that the people who tend to agree with the diminishing value are all those who own multiple cars including the higher end ones.
So it is fair to conclude that if he already owns a > D1 segment car he obviously don't see the value. For the 'aam admi' the D1 will still continue to an aspiration and also a reckoner that he has finally arrived.
In my opinion, unless he is an enthusiast or a Petrolhead, the Aam Aadmi would not really rate a Cruze or a Civic higher than a City or a Verna for all practical purposes. Forget the aam aadmi, even for someone owning a Spark /Alto/Eon/Nano, owning a vento would feel as good as a Jetta. Thus a D segmenter has really little to offer to most of us nowadays.

Personal experience - I feel great driving around town in my Linea, and feature-wise I have really nothing to complain about till date! (Oh well, maybe a factory fitted Sat Nav would've been great, but the Verna offers it, doesn't it). Can't complain on the quality of daily ride, or handling, or NVH, or refinement. Hell the C Segment cars even score almost equally on the road respect factor.

And all this at a lower price point.

So (Quoting an old detergent Ad), "Koi woh kyon le? Ye na le?"
abhi413 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2012, 09:18   #113
Distinguished - BHPian
 
drmohitg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 4,479
Thanked: 3,623 Times
Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhi413 View Post
In my opinion, unless he is an enthusiast or a Petrolhead, the Aam Aadmi would not really rate a Cruze or a Civic higher than a City or a Verna for all practical purposes. Forget the aam aadmi, even for someone owning a Spark /Alto/Eon/Nano, owning a vento would feel as good as a Jetta. Thus a D segmenter has really little to offer to most of us nowadays.
Sorry but I don't think thats correct. A D segment sedan would always have a much bigger desirability factor than a C segment sedan. Yes the C segment sedan provides you with enough gadgets and decent comfort and everything. But a D segment sedan does offer you a more luxurious and pampered drive along with providing much more space which adds to the comfort. VFM is not a factor that you can attribute to them ofcourse. But then anyone spending upwards of 10L on a car is not much bothered about that. Every car in the D segment and then on all the way to the 16 crore Buggati is not VFM and is just a way of enjoying luxury when you can afford it.

You say you drive the Linea. Yes its a capable vehicle. But if you would have 20 odd Lacs to spend on a car then I don't think you will like the Linea over the Jetta. Similarly for instance If I have 15L to spare then I would rather be experiencing an Altis than a Sunny, although Sunny is much more VFM.

I think in the end it all boils down to one's budget.

Last edited by drmohitg : 23rd September 2012 at 09:20.
drmohitg is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2012, 12:01   #114
BHPian
 
abhi413's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Pune
Posts: 214
Thanked: 101 Times
Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

^^ Partly true, but I think you didn't get my point in entirety.

My last post started with a disclaimer - "unless he is an enthusiast or a Petrolhead".
Of course you are right when you say someone who has 20 lacs to spend may think at par with his wallet. But we were talking the aam aadmi here - who need not even be Team BHPians.

Fact is, the common guy on the street doesn't even know that the Jetta exists! Though he might still know the Civic somewhat.

I'm not just talking about a guy who drives the Linea or the Verna etc here, but also the guy who wants to get himself a 3 box sometime. What great benefit would he see deriving by paying so much extra? Maybe some snob value!

And unless someone is going to be chauffeured around all the while, the truth is, it is increasingly making less sense nowadays to go for a D-Seg car.

Another disclaimer - I admit I might be tempted to look beyond my beloved Linea, if I had enough Moolah to spare. Not disrespecting the virtues of the D-Segmenters in any way!

The whole debate reminds be of the difference between the "Need" and "Want" buying from my Economics 101 classes!

Last edited by abhi413 : 23rd September 2012 at 12:03. Reason: Typo
abhi413 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2012, 14:24   #115
BHPian
 
vishaltanksale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 155
Thanked: 16 Times
Default

Look at sales figures of last few months to find possible answers.
D1 segment was around 25-30% of C2 since last March, but trend seems to be getting better.
Post Apr-12, sale of D1 segment is around 50% of C2 which is some kind of indication and value in the segment.

For me D1 does make sense based on manufacturer. so all Indianised manufacturer (hyundai, maruti) may not make great sense with VFM product in C2, but their European and American rivals do add that premimum over C1.

Last edited by vishaltanksale : 23rd September 2012 at 14:26.
vishaltanksale is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd September 2012, 15:16   #116
Distinguished - BHPian
 
drmohitg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 4,479
Thanked: 3,623 Times
Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhi413 View Post
I'm not just talking about a guy who drives the Linea or the Verna etc here, but also the guy who wants to get himself a 3 box sometime. What great benefit would he see deriving by paying so much extra? Maybe some snob value!

The whole debate reminds be of the difference between the "Need" and "Want" buying from my Economics 101 classes!
Precisely my point too. The guy you describe in the above post does not even figure in the target customer group of the D segment car makers. So that guy does not count or have any effect on the sales of these cars. Even if Jetta comes with every feature known to mankind then also that guy would probably just end up buying in a segment below. Ultimately as you very rightly said its between need and want. And the only thing that drives the sales of cars above 5L in our market is WANT !
drmohitg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th September 2012, 20:06   #117
BHPian
 
gandalf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 93
Thanked: 22 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmohitg

Sorry but I don't think thats correct. A D segment sedan would always have a much bigger desirability factor than a C segment sedan. Yes the C segment sedan provides you with enough gadgets and decent comfort and everything. But a D segment sedan does offer you a more luxurious and pampered drive along with providing much more space which adds to the comfort. VFM is not a factor that you can attribute to them ofcourse. But then anyone spending upwards of 10L on a car is not much bothered about that. Every car in the D segment and then on all the way to the 16 crore Buggati is not VFM and is just a way of enjoying luxury when you can afford it.

You say you drive the Linea. Yes its a capable vehicle. But if you would have 20 odd Lacs to spend on a car then I don't think you will like the Linea over the Jetta. Similarly for instance If I have 15L to spare then I would rather be experiencing an Altis than a Sunny, although Sunny is much more VFM.

I think in the end it all boils down to one's budget.
I beg to differ on the Sunny Vs corolla argument. I took a TD on both sunny and corolla diesel. If I had to choose between the 2 I would chose the sunny over the corolla. The reason, both cars are similar in their handling. Both are strictly take me from point a to b vehicles. The sunny has a better back seat compared to a corolla and it's cheaper. So if I have 15 l to spare I'd spend 10 on the sunny and put the rest in an FD. Else I'd go for an xuv
gandalf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th September 2012, 20:52   #118
Distinguished - BHPian
 
drmohitg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 4,479
Thanked: 3,623 Times
Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gandalf View Post
I beg to differ on the Sunny Vs corolla argument. I took a TD on both sunny and corolla diesel. If I had to choose between the 2 I would chose the sunny over the corolla. The reason, both cars are similar in their handling. Both are strictly take me from point a to b vehicles. The sunny has a better back seat compared to a corolla and it's cheaper. So if I have 15 l to spare I'd spend 10 on the sunny and put the rest in an FD. Else I'd go for an xuv
Are you suggesting to me that the following things don't matter to you at all:
1. Larger space inside the car specially the width hence enabling the passengers to sit in more comfort. The sunny lacks rear leg room whereas the Altis's seat is much more properly inclined. Also the extra width of the car makes sure that there is no touching elbows with your co-passenger.
2. The grip on the road due to a longer wheelbase which adds to the handling of the car. The Sunny has a disproportionate back and hence doesn't inspire much confidence in speeds in excess of 100 kmph. The altis can cruise all day at 140-150 without complaining.
3. Small but intelligent features like the central sliding hand rest, turn indicators on the ORVM, overall better interior colour, fit and quality. The Sunny has very bad finish of the plastic at 4-5 places.
4. The overall feel of the Altis is much more luxurious and the associated status image.

So this brings me back to my old point. If I have cash then I would buy the Altis. If I am on a budget or looking to make a VFM purchase then go for the Sunny. Both the cars are good in there own way. But I would anyday prefer to be in the Altis ( and I own both the cars). Bottomline is that a D segment car would always be more plush, luxurious and comfortable. It all boils down on how much are you willing to spend.

Last edited by drmohitg : 24th September 2012 at 20:58.
drmohitg is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 24th September 2012, 21:10   #119
BHPian
 
devsoftech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Santa Clara
Posts: 228
Thanked: 119 Times
Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

My 2 cents: Having owned a first hand SX4 since 2008 and an used 2006 CIVIC AT since 2012, I'm still able to appreciate the "finesse" of a car of that segment. SX4 is not built so flimsy, has quality fitments and I have a very decent suspension setup, but CIVIC's spacing, ergonomics, NVH is a league better than SX4. I cannot justify that a C-segmenter is a wise decision than a D-segmenter. We are missing a very important piece here. The transmission as it shifts, or braking, or even switching the A/C is way more refined than a C-segmenter. Also higher segment cars give the feel of "will last longer" due to focus given on longevity (better quality parts). After driving the CIVIC, I do not miss the audio controls and other gizmos available. It just has a more quality ambience. It raises your self esteem and ego while sitting into one (despite being a second hand )
Well its just me

This segment is not about being VFM, but rather pampering you. Get into one of these and C segmenters look like a wannabe.
devsoftech is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 24th September 2012, 22:53   #120
Senior - BHPian
 
sameerg001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Dwarka, Delhi
Posts: 1,501
Thanked: 422 Times
Default Re: The Diminishing Value of D1 Segment Sedans (Altis, Cruze, Civic, Laura et al)

If i CAN afford a D segment car, Will i buy a C segment car, Answer is NO in bold words.

No matter, How much VFM a C segment car will be, I won't bother looking at it. The comfort, Luxury, Driving pleasure and Build quality of a D segment sedan will always be better then that of a C segment car.

Let's take Sunny and Altis for comparison sake. I have been in both of them and have Driven them. The interiors, comfort, Build quality, Seating, Space etc of Altis was way better then of sunny, Of course there is price difference of around 6L between the two.

But, Still if i have to pick one among them, It will Altis over sunny any day.

My point remains the same- If i can afford a D segment sedan, I won't bother looking at a C segment sedan, No matter how VFM it is.

D segment is always been associated with Luxury tag, It's never been about being VFM or something, D segment cars pampers you, It just matters how much you are ready to spend on a car.

My 2 cents

Cheers,
Sameer

Last edited by sameerg001 : 24th September 2012 at 22:55.
sameerg001 is offline   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jetta/Accord/Civic/Altis/Laura which one to buy. satyamkaushik Sedans 10 3rd November 2012 06:47
C+ segment car purchase help needed (Civic, Jetta, City, Cruze) Rossiter Sedans 77 25th January 2011 22:59
In pursuit of happiness: my next car UPDATE: Skoda Yeti wins over C+ segment sedans ! GloryManUnited Sedans 82 4th January 2011 00:53
Civic, Octavia, Cruze, Optra Magnum, Corolla Altis - what tyre for 17" alloys? opendro Tyre & Alloy wheel Section 0 4th October 2010 18:26
confused: civic/altis/laura ambiente/octavia kausu Luxury, Imports & Niche 3 15th December 2008 18:40


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 19:59.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks