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Old 2nd July 2012, 02:38   #1
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Lightbulb Maruti Suzuki to bring upheaval with a Nano diesel engine

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The company is working overtime on developing a small two-cylinder 800cc diesel engine along with its parent Suzuki Motor Corp in Japan, three people in the know said. EThas learnt that the engine is codenamed E2, and the Japanese parent is taking the lead for its development. The all-new diesel engine is likely to punch 40 horsepower and may deliver fuel efficiency of 25-30 kilometres to a litre.

Source - Maruti Suzuki to bring upheaval with a Nano diesel engine - The Economic Times

Last edited by GTO : 2nd July 2012 at 13:49. Reason: Keeping fair usage practices in mind, it is best to include an excerpt + link to full article
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Old 2nd July 2012, 03:22   #2
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki to bring upheaval with a Nano diesel engine

800 cc diesel! My views on it:
- It's power output and torque output will be woefully inadequate. Whatever Turbo configuration you use, you are assured of massive Turbo lag.
- It's performance with HVAC load will be even poorer.
- The peak torque and power output will come at a relatively high RPM band, and that will mean high NVH and Wear & Tear levels.
- It will have to be a very interesting gearbox that can extract anything out of such an engine.
- The above characteristics mean that no buyer looking at over 4 Lacs price range would touch this engine with a flagpole. For a measly amount more you can get the brilliant MJD.
- Diesels take more money to manufacture than Petrols and hence it will be difficult to price it below 3-3.5 Lacs even under the best circumstances. That's a very narrow price band that you are targeting, especially when you are investing in R&D and not just reusing & repackaging already existing technology. How are you going to achieve ROI? Re-sell this engine to Generator and Farm Equipment manufacturers?
- Diesels also take somewhat more space under the bonnet, so it will be a cram, and make even regular maintenance very difficult and consequently, expensive.

All in all, I don't think this piece of technology is going to be commercially viable.
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Old 2nd July 2012, 06:24   #3
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki to bring upheaval with a Nano diesel engine

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Originally Posted by roy_libran View Post
800 cc diesel! My views on it:
- It's power output and torque output will be woefully inadequate. Whatever Turbo configuration you use, you are assured of massive Turbo lag.
- It's performance with HVAC load will be even poorer.
- The peak torque and power output will come at a relatively high RPM band, and that will mean high NVH and Wear & Tear levels.
- It will have to be a very interesting gearbox that can extract anything out of such an engine.
- The above characteristics mean that no buyer looking at over 4 Lacs price range would touch this engine with a flagpole. For a measly amount more you can get the brilliant MJD.
- Diesels take more money to manufacture than Petrols and hence it will be difficult to price it below 3-3.5 Lacs even under the best circumstances. That's a very narrow price band that you are targeting, especially when you are investing in R&D and not just reusing & repackaging already existing technology. How are you going to achieve ROI? Re-sell this engine to Generator and Farm Equipment manufacturers?
- Diesels also take somewhat more space under the bonnet, so it will be a cram, and make even regular maintenance very difficult and consequently, expensive.

All in all, I don't think this piece of technology is going to be commercially viable.
True, if it was designed 10 or more years ago.
Today, fuel efficiency has become the name of the game and engine designs have been focused mainly on it, for the past few years.
For eg. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/intern...ar-2012-a.html (Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engine wins International Engine of the Year 2012)

Who would have thought a 3 cylinder, long stroke engine would recieve the engine of the year award?

Internal Combustion technology and innovations have progressed far that every negative attribute that you've mentioned would be handled appropriately.
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Old 2nd July 2012, 06:38   #4
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki to bring upheaval with a Nano diesel engine

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Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
True, if it was designed 10 or more years ago.
Today, fuel efficiency has become the name of the game and engine designs have been focused mainly on it, for the past few years.
For eg. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/intern...ar-2012-a.html (Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engine wins International Engine of the Year 2012)

Who would have thought a 3 cylinder, long stroke engine would recieve the engine of the year award?

Internal Combustion technology and innovations have progressed far that every negative attribute that you've mentioned would be handled appropriately.
So what exactly is so dramatically different in the Design? A long stroke would be even worse from a Vibrations perspective. We haven't seen this engine in real life yet, so really can't comment here. Moreover, this engine is being introduced into the mid-segment, where it's higher cost of production can be salvaged.
The article here talks about the entry level segment, where I am not sure that the cost of producing such an engine can be retrieved from.
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Old 2nd July 2012, 09:29   #5
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki to bring upheaval with a Nano diesel engine

I suspect if the news article is true in first place. its coming from economic times , so more reason to doubt it.

I agree with roy Libran Above, it;s not possible to price it below 3 Lakhs or Until they build a completely new platform like Nano, which takes at least 4-6 years to build & mature and than you need a team of Engg who is aware of local condition. How do they expect Japanese engg;s to develop a engine for indian conditions. the Indian Engg in MSIL has largely played second fiddle to japanese with involvement confined more or less to cosmetic stuff only...
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Old 2nd July 2012, 11:02   #6
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki to bring upheaval with a Nano diesel engine

Maruti Suzuki plans 800cc diesel engine, may deliver 30kmpl average - The Economic Times

If this comes, other Car makers would have to start applying new strategies.
I think it would cost around 2.75 to 3Lac range, not more that that.
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Old 2nd July 2012, 11:22   #7
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki to bring upheaval with a Nano diesel engine

I think it is time to stop fanboyism/ anti-fanboyism (bickering). I would welcome this move as the cheapest diesel engine from Tata (Nano) will have some competition.

But, at the moment, what I am surprised is that it is being developed in Japan by a so called specialist firm. If the Japanese had advanced diesel technology, the famed national diesel would not have been Fiat's... Toyota would not have collaborated with BMW & Honda would have launched the diesel range much earlier.

I would rate this ET report as too much speculation... sort of reports at times shared with few (fools) to make sure that stock market performance (rather than on road performance) of the company as a whole is good.

But, still it may not be difficult for Suzuki to go Chevy way, & probably launch a 2-3 cylinder version (if they can spot any lacuna in Fiat-GM diesel sharing agreement) & get a tested well balanced product for the Indian users .
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Old 2nd July 2012, 13:39   #8
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki to bring upheaval with a Nano diesel engine

I cannot understand all the Fuss and the media reporting on a small diesel motor.
Mercedes introduced a 800cdi engine way back in 2001, for their Smart car. Giving out 40bhp and supposed to give 3L/100kms. With later developments they now claim a 2.5L/100kms.! I think its known as the OM660.
I own one since 2002, and has given absolutely trouble free service. One cant expect a lag free performance through the band, but, it still is very peppy and nice, and the Smart is not a light car. I get an average of 20 to 25 kmpl depending on the usage.
2 years back I was told Tata's are working on an engine design based on this with the help of an european developer. Problems were coming up due to the multiple patents Mercedes holds on this engine design. I am sure Japanese have the knack to find the way out.
As someone here said, it costs money. Yes thats true, and to plonk it into a 3 lac car is wishfull thinking, with 4 lac being more realistic. Question is how many at this price will they sell.
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Old 2nd July 2012, 13:48   #9
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Default Re: Maruti Suzuki to bring upheaval with a Nano diesel engine

Mod Note : This thread is based on speculative news. Prima facie, a 2-cylinder diesel engine from Maruti doesn't seem likely.

We'll wait for more reliable news before opening this thread.

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