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Old 10th July 2012, 12:04   #16
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Default Re: Dearth of C segment sedans with a diesel engine + Automatic transmission?

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post


Ford Fiesta : Only AT petrol (North America = Petrol + AT)
I thought the ford fiesta was a European product, don't remember seeing any fiestas in USA.
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Old 10th July 2012, 13:07   #17
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Default Re: Dearth of C segment sedans with a diesel engine + Automatic transmission?

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Originally Posted by FourWheelDrift View Post
It looks to me like you're a solo driver, and space is NOT a requirement ...

So, why not consider an i10 petrol auto at ~5.3L ex-showroom, and bank the difference (6.1L) between the Verna diesel auto priced at ~11.4L ex-showroom ?

The i10 will be great in the city, and will probably surprise you on the expressway.

And if you are insistent on something bigger than an i10, consider the new Swift DZire petrol auto at ~6.77L ex-showroom.

I think it will take you a LONG time to offset the higher initial acquisition cost of the Verna with it's lower fuel bills in comparison to the other 2 petrol auto options.
Hi. I have an I-10 petrol manual transmission and that vehicle is the last one I would want to take on an expressway (no offence meant). I need a sedan definitely so it looks like I will have to look at Verna diesel or used car options.
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Old 10th July 2012, 14:14   #18
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Default Re: Dearth of C segment sedans with a diesel engine + Automatic transmission?

My brother in law was in the market to buy a A/T and he was surprised to find only the verna diesel to be the only A/T diesel. And it costs a whopping 13.1 Lakhs OTR Chennai! I advised him to rather look at a Rapid / Vento diesel since they make much more sense at their price.
Secondly, with an A.T, if there is any issue, I believe servicing costs are just too high. I remember some one in T-bhp talking about the massive expenditures that he incurred on an I10 A/T.
And re-sale values of A/T cars do not justify the initial premium that one pays. If there is one car maker who can change this, it is got to be Maruti. With their kind of volumes, they could spend that extra money required for an A.T in the dzire or the sx4 diesel versions. And this might work in their favor too, since the SX4 is not doing well at all and such a feature may pull in some numbers.
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Old 10th July 2012, 14:31   #19
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Default Re: Dearth of C segment sedans with a diesel engine + Automatic transmission?

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Originally Posted by splitsecond View Post
Is Scorpio AT that bad? Why no good opinion about Scorpio AT?
I was looking to buy an a AT suv or sedan and scorpio is the only option to fit in my budget.
I have been driving a Scorpio AT for nearly 2.5 years now and in my opinion there is nothing wrong with the AT. It is quite good, never caused me any serious problem that the A$$ wasn't able to deal with fairly capably.

I always respect GTO's opinion and was quite surprised to see him rubbishing Scorpio AT. Not sure what new data has come to light that I have not experienced on my AT thus far.
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Old 10th July 2012, 15:05   #20
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Default Re: Dearth of C segment sedans with a diesel engine + Automatic transmission?

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Originally Posted by ananth_iy View Post
I have been driving a Scorpio AT for nearly 2.5 years now and in my opinion there is nothing wrong with the AT. It is quite good, never caused me any serious problem that the A$$ wasn't able to deal with fairly capably.

I always respect GTO's opinion and was quite surprised to see him rubbishing Scorpio AT. Not sure what new data has come to light that I have not experienced on my AT thus far.
I think the comment was made on the performance of the AT box, not on the reliability part. I had done a TD of Scorpio AT a year back and felt that it didn't do justice to the powerful MHawk engine. There was clearly some lag in selecting the right gear (and hence in the response times).
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Old 10th July 2012, 15:17   #21
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Default Re: Dearth of C segment sedans with a diesel engine + Automatic transmission?

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Originally Posted by tachobells View Post
I think the comment was made on the performance of the AT box, not on the reliability part. I had done a TD of Scorpio AT a year back and felt that it didn't do justice to the powerful MHawk engine. There was clearly some lag in selecting the right gear (and hence in the response times).
Maybe true. I have never driven a Verna AT to see if it performs any better. I have driven many petrol ATs even off late when I take trips to the US and I never felt that the Scorpio was that bad - there are obviously some that are better and there are some that I felt the Scorpio fared better against in terms of power and responsiveness.

A colleague of mine (a die-hard manual fan) finally bought himself a City AT out of sheer exhaustion from driving an Accent in traffic. After driving the City AT for a while he was quite impressed with the power and responsiveness of the Scorpio AT when I handed him the keys for a spin. So, I guess if you compare the Scorpio AT with a Scorpio manual you will come up with GTO's analysis. Then again, at least for me, I did not buy the Scorpio AT because it is a Scorpio, but because it was an AT. So my comparison would be more with other AT rather than with Scorpio manual.
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Old 10th July 2012, 15:51   #22
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Default Re: Dearth of C segment sedans with a diesel engine + Automatic transmission?

As far as I know, Fiat's 1.3 MJD does not come with an automatic transmission anywhere in the world, either with 75 PS or with 90 PS. But I think Lancia Ypsilon's 105 PS version has an autobox.
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Old 11th July 2012, 12:22   #23
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Default Re: Dearth of C segment sedans with a diesel engine + Automatic transmission?

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Originally Posted by FourWheelDrift View Post
It looks to me like you're a solo driver, and space is NOT a requirement ...

So, why not consider an i10 petrol auto at ~5.3L ex-showroom, and bank the difference (6.1L) between the Verna diesel auto priced at ~11.4L ex-showroom ?

The i10 will be great in the city, and will probably surprise you on the expressway.

And if you are insistent on something bigger than an i10, consider the new Swift DZire petrol auto at ~6.77L ex-showroom.

I think it will take you a LONG time to offset the higher initial acquisition cost of the Verna with it's lower fuel bills in comparison to the other 2 petrol auto options.
I have a 2010 i10 auto Asta. While I'm very happy for the convenience of city driving with an auto tranny and the overall good build quality of the car, what irks me is the petrol consumption in the i10 auto is quite high (about 8 km/l in the city - couple of BHPians have said that this is quite normal for an auto) and the slow acceleration on the highway. Nowhere near the phenomenal performance of automatics I've ridden in Europe and the US. I've shown it to the Hyundai A.S.S. and they've said that this is normal for the i10 auto. Frankly, because of the dearth of compact automatics in India, my view is that most mechanics in India do not have sufficient expertise on diagnosing problems in automatic gearboxes.
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Old 12th July 2012, 01:13   #24
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Default Re: Dearth of C segment sedans with a diesel engine + Automatic transmission?

Even the Verna diesel is a 4 speed auto box. At this price I expect a 5 speed minimum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorguy View Post
what irks me is the petrol consumption in the i10 auto is quite high (about 8 km/l in the city
I encounter moderate to heavy traffic in city with A/C and my Civic AT returns about 9 kmpl many times. (8.8, 8.9, 9.1, 9, 9.2, 8.9 - Six consecutive tank fulls all driven inside the city).

Last edited by idofsuresh : 12th July 2012 at 01:14.
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Old 12th July 2012, 08:12   #25
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Default Re: Dearth of C segment sedans with a diesel engine + Automatic transmission?

A/T Market in India is indeed one of those very few stories where many urban commuters like yourself want to have A/T diesel option but no choices at all in sub 10L categories.

I guess there is a separate thread (So, why don't you buy an Automatic?) which puts light on this topic. Second most choice in poll mentions 'AT option is unavailable on my choice of car (including diesels)'. This is a good enough indicator that there is gap in market and needs single manufacturer to lead the way.

One more interesting fact is that, last week on Charlie Rose Show , Ratan Tata himself quoted couple of lines on this topic. Albeit, the topic of conversation was India and China, he indicated that Tata might source some sub-assemblies from china in area of automatic transmissions. The reason he said that, 'we do not yet produce things like automatic transmissions at prices that are unbelievable (compared with China)'.

This shows the fact that manufacturers are listening, but when we will get affordable A/T Diesels is still not clear.

I hope this doesn't happen too late, meaning we don't end up waiting for 'electric cars' to leapfrog this consumer need.
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Old 12th July 2012, 08:45   #26
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Default Re: Dearth of C segment sedans with a diesel engine + Automatic transmission?

since there isnt any option for AT diesel in a budget why not consider auto-clutch. My cousin who has a knee problem had fitted it to his swift vdi. Practical Cons he came across is that there is a bit of a lag in the system so upshifting in low rpm is not possible as the rpm might drop around 500 or more by the time it engages the clutch and you cant hold the clutch in half position as the switch completely engages the clutch. however you can switch this system off at any point of time. the kit costed him somewhere between 30-35k.here is what i found online about the system

Quoted from another website :

With Auto Clutch you can convert a manual car to semi-automatic at the touch of a button. We manufacture and supply all types of cars and light duty vans matching to hectic traffic conditions. This is an intelligent electronically controlled mechanism which enables the driver to select gears simply by pressing a button on the gear lever and shifting. This automatically activates the clutch pedal movement in a completely controlled system. The car can be driven by using just the brake and accelerator. In traffic when releasing the brake pedal the car creeps forward like an automatic. Auto Clutch takes the fatigue away from having to operate the clutch pedal continuously, particularly in traffic situations.

Auto clutch is mainly comprised of two units. The first elaborate electronic control unit controls the second compact electric motor. The electric motor is mechanically connected to the clutch pedal with a cable. The accelerator pedal, brake pedal, hand brake and road speed are monitored for signals which result in automatic activation of the system. The entire system is installed in the interior compartment of the car. Some of the features are:
Change gear without using your foot to operate the clutch
Easy to operate
No engine or gearbox modifications
Can be switched on or off even while driving
Economic time spending to install
More fuel economical than an automatic
Creeps like an automatic
Transferable to your next car.
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Old 12th July 2012, 09:37   #27
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Default Re: Dearth of C segment sedans with a diesel engine + Automatic transmission?

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Originally Posted by Palio_2005 View Post
This made me wonder as why none of the manufacturers even offer an auto option in diesel. I am sure with growing traffic in our cities if an diesel auto is offered for C segment sedans there would be a number of takers.
If you let go of the segment constraint, you can TD Scorpio AT or else venture into used car market, which is very very lucrative as of now.
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Old 12th July 2012, 09:45   #28
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Default Re: Dearth of C segment sedans with a diesel engine + Automatic transmission?

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Originally Posted by motorguy View Post
what irks me is the petrol consumption in the i10 auto is quite high (about 8 km/l in the city - couple of BHPians have said that this is quite normal for an auto) and the slow acceleration on the highway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by idofsuresh View Post
I encounter moderate to heavy traffic in city with A/C and my Civic AT returns about 9 kmpl many times.
I have both i10 Auto and Civic Auto, for 3 and 5 years respectively. Both are driven in moderate to heavy Bangalore Traffic.

i10 returns 7.5 on an average and Civic averages around 7 and can plunge to as low as 5.8 at times if the entire tankful is driven in traffic.
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Old 12th July 2012, 23:30   #29
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Default Re: Dearth of C segment sedans with a diesel engine + Automatic transmission?

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Originally Posted by nareshtrao View Post
i10 returns 7.5 on an average and Civic averages around 7 and can plunge to as low as 5.8 at times if the entire tankful is driven in traffic.
I must say that is quite a low figure for relatively efficient engines. My ANHC AT returns 10.5-12 in city regularly and my beetle returns around 9 (which is good considering the beetle doesn't have the best engine + auto-box combination)

I would suggest switching to low resistance tyres like xm1's and maybe try altering your style which would involve letting the car roll rather there sudden acceleration and hard braking. My personal experience with automatic cars with torque converters is that less torque usage = better efficiency.
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Old 13th July 2012, 00:55   #30
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Default Re: Dearth of C segment sedans with a diesel engine + Automatic transmission?

Just read on zigwheels test drive of Elantra which has 6 speed automatic transmission in both petrol and diesel. Again a D segment and will not be sufficing the needs of people who need a C segment automatic diesel.

Automatic is slowly picking up in India i believe in 5 years we would all be moving to Automatic due to the much known reason TRAFFIC !!!
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