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Old 18th July 2012, 09:51   #1
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Default SIAM, Petroleum ministry tussle over BS-IV implementation

More than 2 years after the BS-IV norms were implemented in 13 major cities, the government is coming under increasing pressure from the Society of Indian Automobile Manufacturers (SIAM) to accelerate BS-IV implementation throughout the country.

BS-IV compliant fuels have lesser quantities of particulate matters and other air pollutants (sulphur and benzene) than BS-III fuels.

SIAM, the apex body representing Indian vehicle manufacturers, believes that the nationwide implementation of BS-IV standards will benefit manufacturers as it will streamline vehicle production. Currently, production lines include both, BS-III and BS-IV engines, thus raising costs.

Investment hurdles

The petroleum ministry had stated that the investment required for upgrading oil refineries to produce BS-IV fuel for nationwide supply was a massive hurdle. The ministry had pegged the investment at Rs 53,000 crore. This, after the oil industry claims to have invested over Rs 32,000 crore in the first phase of converting BS-III to BS-IV.

In April, the environment & petroleum ministries decided to jointly draw a list of 50 other cities that they expect to be BS-IV compliant by 2015.

BS-IV Phase 1

The BS-III norm was made effective nationwide in 2010. In the same year, BS-IV was implemented in 13 major cities including NCR, Mumbai, Kolkata, Chennai, Bangalore, Hyderabad, Ahmedabad, Pune, Surat, Kanpur, Agra, Solapur and Lucknow. In March this year, seven more cities of Puducherry, Mathura, Vapi, Jamnagar, Ankaleshwar, Hissar and Bharatpur were added under this compliance standard.

BS-IV is more or less similar to the Euro-IV emission standard; the only differences being that Euro tests are done at higher speeds and at sub-zero temperatures. However, BS-IV lags by at least five years considering its implementation started in 2010 (Euro-IV was effected in 2005).

Although emission standards were introduced only in the 90s, the Bharat-Stage standards have been upgraded steadily over the years to match up to Euro standards. The next phase to implement BS-IV in 50 cities is expected to take three more years. Add to that, the environment ministry has revealed that there are 82 cities with higher than permissible air pollution. With constant pressure from the powerful auto lobby, it will be interesting to see what the government's next move will be.

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Old 19th July 2012, 23:57   #2
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Post Re: SIAM, Petroleum ministry tussle over BS-IV implementation

@ Duke, This is a welcome change and it should have been implemented in many more cities. In reality it is the Auto rickshaws, Govt. transport, Lorries and vans which emanate the major chunk of obnoxious gases than the cars and bikes. That is where strict enforcement has to be done. I am from chennai and even though the city is BS - IV compliant since many years the permissible particulate matter in air is more than twice the permissible levels in more than half of the city limits. Does it mean we should go ahead and implement BS V ?

The need of the hour is strict enforcement on commercial and govt. vehicles (Bus transport) to comply to the norms and keep them in pristine condition.
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Old 20th July 2012, 11:50   #3
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Default Re: SIAM, Petroleum ministry tussle over BS-IV implementation

I think the standards are upgraded every five years. So we should expect BS-V in 2015. Now that all petrol is 93RON minimum (same as BS-V) why are car manufacturers still detuning engines for India.
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Old 20th July 2012, 13:54   #4
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk
Now that all petrol is 93RON minimum (same as BS-V) why are car manufacturers still detuning engines for India.
Sir, I believe it is mainly because of these reasons:

1) As a people, we are obsessed (with a capital O) with fuel economy. Nothing really wrong with that, considering the vile petrol pricing policy of the government-oil PSU mafia.

2) Indian driving conditions (especially the chaotic, slow moving, bumper-to-bumper traffic in cities) calls for more low and mid range torque than top end power for those relatively rare trips on highways/smooth and empty roads (for ~ 70% of the users, I guess). As it's seems rather difficult to have the best of both worlds, the manufacturers are willing to do this trade-off based on feedback from consumers who want stress-free driving with fewer gear changes and torque-on-tap.

3) Certain regulations that provide tax concessions - like the sub-4m and less than 1.2l (for petrol engines). 1.25l is somewhat of a standard size in the rest of the world, so such engines are detuned just a wee bit to duck into the "small car" excise category.
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Old 20th July 2012, 14:29   #5
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Default Re: SIAM, Petroleum ministry tussle over BS-IV implementation

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Originally Posted by RSR View Post
1) As a people, we are obsessed (with a capital O) with fuel economy. Nothing really wrong with that, considering the vile petrol pricing policy of the government-oil PSU mafia.
Maybe but I doubt it.

Quote:
2) Indian driving conditions (especially the chaotic, slow moving, bumper-to-bumper traffic in cities) calls for more low and mid range torque than top end power for those relatively rare trips on highways/smooth and empty roads (for ~ 70% of the users, I guess). As it's seems rather difficult to have the best of both worlds, the manufacturers are willing to do this trade-off based on feedback from consumers who want stress-free driving with fewer gear changes and torque-on-tap.
The torque figures are also lower or about the same.

Quote:
3) Certain regulations that provide tax concessions - like the sub-4m and less than 1.2l (for petrol engines). 1.25l is somewhat of a standard size in the rest of the world, so such engines are detuned just a wee bit to duck into the "small car" excise category.
This has nothing to do with the tune, only the size.
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Old 20th July 2012, 15:25   #6
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Default Re: SIAM, Petroleum ministry tussle over BS-IV implementation

I believe the current BS IV is 91 Octane. May be they should gear up to introduce BS V throughout the country by 2012 with the 93 octane.

Detuning for India may be due to the mileage conscious buyers who are more in number.
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Old 20th July 2012, 16:26   #7
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Default Re: SIAM, Petroleum ministry tussle over BS-IV implementation

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Originally Posted by nkrishnap View Post
I believe the current BS IV is 91 Octane. May be they should gear up to introduce BS V throughout the country by 2012 with the 93 octane.
My mistake I should have written 91RON. BS-III, IV and Euro V all are 91RON for Regular. In BS-III and above Premium is 95RON.

Just see that after BS-III IOC stopped advertising Xtra Premium as Premium, just petrol with additives.
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Old 31st July 2012, 13:27   #8
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Default Re: SIAM, Petroleum ministry tussle over BS-IV implementation

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Originally Posted by DukeNukem View Post
More than 2 years after the BS-IV norms were implemented in 13 major cities, the government is coming under increasing pressure from the Society of Indian Automobile Manufacturers (SIAM) to accelerate BS-IV implementation throughout the country.
My experience with these fuels has been quite interesting. I travel to Belgaum (500 kms from Bangalore) almost once a month in my Laura TSI, which sports high tech TSI motor and is obviously BS IV compliant. I find my car runs smoother and seems to feel more powerful and delivers slightly better mileage when running on BS III fuel .

I have come to this conclusion after about 10 ~ 12 such journeys. For the Bangalore to Belgaum run no matter where I tank up in Bangalore (BS IV), be it Shell (Normal or Super) or BP or IOC the car seems to run kind of Okayish, but for the return journey after tanking up in Belgaum (BS III) the engine seems to run smoother, quieter and feels more energetic. Even the FE seems to be slightly better. I can't really understand why it is so. Does tighter emmission norms also sacrifice engine performance in a way?
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Old 31st July 2012, 14:03   #9
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Default Re: SIAM, Petroleum ministry tussle over BS-IV implementation

The petrol refiners (Reliance excepted who I hear are exporting Euro V as well) dragged their feet about upgrading to Euro IV. Obviously even now they are not in a position to produce enough Euro IV fuel! Maybe the unviable pricing of diesel, LPG and Kerosene has a role here.

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Old 31st July 2012, 14:25   #10
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Default Re: SIAM, Petroleum ministry tussle over BS-IV implementation

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Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
My experience with these fuels has been quite interesting. I travel to Belgaum (500 kms from Bangalore) almost once a month in my Laura TSI, which sports high tech TSI motor and is obviously BS IV compliant. I find my car runs smoother and seems to feel more powerful and delivers slightly better mileage when running on BS III fuel .
Serious?? Does that mean the RON of a BS III is more than 91?

I asked athe Shell Pump that I normally fill up at about what their RON number was.. and he gave me a puzzled look. I checked with the manager there and he said since it's past 9.30pm there is nobody that he can call and check with.

I think the TSI motor needs a 95RON correct?
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Old 31st July 2012, 14:51   #11
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Default Re: SIAM, Petroleum ministry tussle over BS-IV implementation

I think the rate at which India is upgrading fuel is about okay, considering the size of the demand for fuel and increasing number of cars.

Maintenance of vehicles in non-polluting conditions is a different matter and needs a more active RTO.

It is a huge investment for the oil companies (even with their profits and the government's claimed losses in subsidised fuels) but then we also need air to breathe. If we do not reduce particulate matter in fuels fast, our life will get worse and worse, especially in the cities. I know this because all bronchial / breating related problems of my family members have increased since we shifted to Delhi from a smaller city with lesser cars. And Delhi air is still relatively clean.
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Old 31st July 2012, 15:42   #12
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Default Re: SIAM, Petroleum ministry tussle over BS-IV implementation

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Originally Posted by mempheS.D View Post
Serious?? Does that mean the RON of a BS III is more than 91?

I asked athe Shell Pump that I normally fill up at about what their RON number was.. and he gave me a puzzled look. I checked with the manager there and he said since it's past 9.30pm there is nobody that he can call and check with.

I think the TSI motor needs a 95RON correct?
The Fuel lid says 95/ 91 RON , so 91 RON is OK. THe mannual says there may be a slight loss of performance with 91 Octane fuel.

Actually both BS III and BS IV are 91 RON. 13 major cities in India get BS IV, rest of India gets BS III.

I find a distinct smoothness in the engine whenever I am returning to Bangalore after filling up BS III petrol from Belgaum. One may say that I may have hit upon an honest retailer who does not adulterate. In Bangalore I generally go to Shell. I even tried some PSUs in Bangalore. The car feels better with Shell than all PSUs in Bangalore. I really don't know why, but my car fells awesome with BP BS III petrol from Belgaum. As I mentioned earlier, I travel to Belgaum almost once a month. Initially I thought the car may not take to BS III petrol so well. But after one year of repeated visits, I can safely say I love BS III
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