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Old 23rd July 2012, 12:24   #136
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Default Re: Strike woes haunt Maruti's Manesar plant again. 1 DEAD & Production hit

Agree that Police should have responded faster. But the problem here was the employees who are already inside going on a rampage? I don't know how fast Police will have to respond to such cases.
Or did the management get enough notice of the trouble that could occur and asked for help from Police?
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Old 23rd July 2012, 12:24   #137
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Default Re: Strike woes haunt Maruti's Manesar plant again. 1 DEAD & Production hit

In my opinion instead of solely relying on Police support to maintain law and order it is high time these MNCs hired their own security staff which includes armed security to maintain law and order, this is a huge deterrent to those trade union leaders who are hiding after having killed one family man in broad daylight.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 12:24   #138
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Default Re: Strike woes haunt Maruti's Manesar plant again. 1 DEAD & Production hit

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Originally Posted by lurker View Post
there is no worker-management 'conflict' here. The 'workers' have eliminated the management.

how many private entities with a history has their entire top-level management been massacred by workers.
I would accept your above comments as more out of emotional out burst than with a inch of rationale behind them .

There is a history of strikes In the plant & Mostly the strikes were put to end by buying out & firing the leader's of those strikes.

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
According to one eye witness there were a couple of thousand outsiders in the me-lee. So has to be planned and orchestrated.
And According to another workers who spoken on the condition of anonymity that Mgmt as Hired bounders to push the workers out and afterwards only they went on rampage.

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+1
It is quite fishy that the cops didn't arrive on the scene in time when 3000 rioters, majority non-employees were marauding through the nations premier car manufacturing company. And also is quite suspicious that no significant arrests have been made till date after an event of such large magnitude has passed. Suggests of connivance at some higher level. Maybe the maruti management refused to pay hafta to some lobby. Obviously killing the goose that lays the golden eggs along with the golden eggs has never been a bright idea but Haryana has never been known for it's far-sighted political leadership.
There were no non employees when the trouble began & so far nobody has said that outsiders were involved. Where as workers has said from day one that MSIL has employe ed Bounders , nothing of such statement came from mgmt side. As for arrests goes, they have already arrested some 90 + workers . let us keep politics out of this thread. that same in every state why single out haryana alone

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Originally Posted by rajeshchand View Post
In my opinion instead of solely relying on Police support to maintain law and order it is high time these MNCs hired their own security staff which includes armed security to maintain law and order, this is a huge deterrent to those trade union leaders who are hiding after having killed one family man in broad daylight.
And in turn run the risk of those guard getting over powered by workers and providing workers with arms to massacre even more people

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Well a lost life can bring some emotional outbursts, i dont find anything specifically wrong with it, and sometimes those outbursts are what can set things right, if you remember the 'Anna Hazare Movement' last year, that was an outburst and had the whole world watching. There is a tipping point in each case, but the question is do we need to wait till the tipping point for action ?
Agree. there is nothing wrong IN emotional outbursts but it take away the whole issue to a another un desired level. we all know how successful Anna;s movement is !!!!!!! . It has changed nothing other than making those people ( against whom this movement ) more careful while doing those transactions & thus making it more difficult to trace and take action. One must think with clear head and in a non partial manner when it involved so many people. we cannot Hang thousand workers because they were involved in the unfortunate killing of a GM. Law must take it;s own course .

Arguments apart, I am seeing few absurd news in media like involvement of Maoists via which IMO , they are trying to politicize the issue. Mgmt ;s plan is clear, push the workers to the wall by declaring a black out and than plant such absurd news in media. Already media is against workers due to death of GM ( and rightly So ) but media has n; t been able to take a 360 degree view of th issue, seeing only with one eye.

In the End , like it happen always, nothing will come out of this whole fiasco . People will forget . media will look for better news to raise TRP;s and workers and mgmt will continue to suffer like they are currently. Need of the hour to sit across the table for both parties and sort out the issues for both side. A life has been lost and justice must be done to the departed soul. Hopefully !!!!

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Old 23rd July 2012, 12:29   #139
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Default Re: Strike woes haunt Maruti's Manesar plant again. 1 DEAD & Production hit

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Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post
I would accept your above comments as more out of emotional out burst than with a inch of rationale behind them .
Well a lost life can bring some emotional outbursts, i dont find anything specifically wrong with it, and sometimes those outbursts are what can set things right, if you remember the 'Anna Hazare Movement' last year, that was an outburst and had the whole world watching. There is a tipping point in each case, but the question is do we need to wait till the tipping point for action ?
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Old 23rd July 2012, 12:47   #140
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Default Re: Strike woes haunt Maruti's Manesar plant again. 1 DEAD & Production hit

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Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post
I would accept your above comments as more out of emotional out burst than with a inch of rationale behind them .

There is a history of strikes In the plant & Mostly the strikes were put to end by buying out & firing the leader's of those strikes.
well dear sir, I do not see any rationale neither emotion in your comments unless you happen to be PRO for the haryana govt. A 'riot' is what happens when two parties have a go at each other and sustain proportionate casualties. There exists an english term, if you may, to describe a 'one-sided riot' .. it's called a massacre. And thus my singular objection to the term used by you to describe the event as a 'conflict' between the management and workers. That term is equivalant to sweeping matters under the rug.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 12:59   #141
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Default Re: Strike woes haunt Maruti's Manesar plant again. 1 DEAD & Production hit

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well dear sir, I do not see any rationale neither emotion in your comments unless you happen to be PRO for the haryana govt. A 'riot' is what happens when two parties have a go at each other and sustain proportionate casualties. There exists an english term, if you may, to describe a 'one-sided riot' .. it's called a massacre. And thus my singular objection to the term used by you to describe the event as a 'conflict' between the management and workers. That term is equivalant to sweeping matters under the rug.
I am not a PRO for HR govt in any way and even my native state is peaceful Himachal . I won ;t consider it as massacre as it;s a simple extension of what has been going on for ages in capitalist world . Just because a Life has been lost does ;t mean that it was workers only who are at fault. There was a provocation from other side as well which resulted in this whole fiasco. i would quote a article from first post here and some statements are truly shocking from mgmt side

http://www.firstpost.com/business/ma...rs-382921.html

Quote:
Last year, at the height of trouble when the company management was crying hoarse about its best management practices followed at its two facilities (it also has a facility at nearby Gurgaon), workers made a smart move – they had arranged a con-call with analysts for themselves! Here, I quote some lines from this unusual interaction, a first in corporate India: “In a shift of eight hours, we get two breaks of seven minutes each during which we have to take care of our loo and food requirements. And bus services to the Manesar factory have been withdrawn. Late comers are docked half a day’s salary. And we have to roll out a car every 44 seconds…”
I have always maintained that One needs to take a humane approach to all these Issues. Untill that happens i see many more such incidents happening in near future .

Last edited by .sushilkumar : 23rd July 2012 at 13:18.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 13:31   #142
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Default Re: Strike woes haunt Maruti's Manesar plant again. 1 DEAD & Production hit

Quote:
Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post
I am not a PRO for HR govt in any way and even my native state is peaceful Himachal . I won ;t consider it as massacre as it;s a simple extension of what has been going on for ages in capitalist world . Just because a Life has been lost does ;t mean that it was workers only who are at fault. There was a provocation from other side as well which resulted in this whole fiasco. i would quote a article from first post here and some statements are truly shocking from mgmt side

Maruti strife: Management is out of sync with its workers | Firstpost

I have always maintained that One needs to take a humane approach to all these Issues. Untill that happens i see many more such incidents happening in near future .
Who is going to take a humane approach, talk to the wife of the man who lost his life and then see whether you can be humane to these marauders, we will discuss this here and around ourselves for another few more days and forget, imagine the life of that lady who lost her husband, life of his kids who lost their father, do you think they will ever understand what is labour strife and what is their requirement, each time they hear about labour unions and their requirements they will only see the picture of their father in front of their eyes.

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Old 23rd July 2012, 13:47   #143
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Default Re: Strike woes haunt Maruti's Manesar plant again. 1 DEAD & Production hit

I have noticed a few things for the NCR and this strike in particular.

a) People around NCR are aggressive in nature, nevertheless most of the people working in manufacturing units are no more from neighbouring areas. Local People have got enough Compensation for their lands (runnin in crores) to ever think of working in manufacturing units. Local people are not the instigators of such a crisis.

b) People who are working in manufacturing units are mostly people from Bihar/Bengal/Rajasthan/UP and outer parts of Haryana. These people have no stakes in development of Gurgaon. Moreso since their salaries are less than 30K even for the most experienced of the workers, they can never afford a house in Gurgaon. Most of the labours working in Supplier side probably are working on less than 12K a month for regular labour and probably 4-9K a month in contract labourship. These plants can't be run without the support of outside labours since they are the only ones who are willing to work on such low salaries.

c) Property prices have reached quite unrealistic levels in Gurgaon in last few years (right now upward of 1 cr even on Gurgaon Dwarka ring road), People only from Top Management level can probably afford to buy a home/Flat in Gurgaon.
For This reason alone, All the Villagers/Land Owners want a peaceful Gurgaon (Read Gurgaon Maha Panchayats' comments in newspaper).
At the same time high land prices resulting in high housing costs means the workers can never live or own even a small house in the nearby areas making their cost of living high (even for rented ones). This makes labourers demanding a higher salary which makes manufacturing either Unsustainable or volatile in Gurgaon/Manesar area.

d) There are gross irregularities in implementation of labour laws even in established manufacturing companies. Whereas it is clearly stipulated by law not to use contract labours for regular manufacturing purposes (Atleast for regular Shifts), Most of the time all the companies include good mix of irregular-Contract staff even for their core operations. Quite Obviously the regular Labour staff and Contract labour staff have salary differences (IMO it can reach even 3:1 ratio for Salaries) and in fact the Regular to contract labour ratios can reach 1:2 in many vendor companie. Maruti Executives in quite clear terms said in yesterday's interview that there are no irregular workers working on lines however that may not be true in entirety and in-fact is the reason for last year's strike. All the Temp/Contract Labours simply want "Regular Labour" status and the associated salaries.

e) Talks with local people reveals they are fearful that Maruti will move their facilities to Gujrat leading to lower level of real state prices and general moderation in economic environment.

To me the best solution for this kind of situation should be i) Move out of costly manufacturing locations, which maruti is mulling for sure, ii) Regularize temporary labour staff in core manufacturing areas; iii-a) Government should somehow step in to deflate the Property bubble in Places like Gurgaon, which will lose its Industry attractiveness soon due to rise of property prices then; iii-b) Industries Inhabiting in these areas should ensure salary increase in line with local inflation.

To me it always looked like.... Noida as a manufacturing Hub and Gurgaon as a Service Class Hub in NCR area purely because of difference in Real State prices in the two NCR areas.

Last edited by anu21v : 23rd July 2012 at 13:59.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 14:01   #144
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Default Re: Strike woes haunt Maruti's Manesar plant again. 1 DEAD & Production hit

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Originally Posted by anu21v View Post
To me the best solution for this kind of situation should be i) Move out of costly manufacturing locations, which maruti is mulling for sure, ii) Regularize temporary labour staff in core manufacturing areas. iii) Government should somehow step in to deflate the Property bubble in Places like Gurgaon, which will lose its Industry attractiveness soon due to rise of property prices.
IMO their is no practical way to implement the solution no iii. You are bang on the wages part as the main reason behind all this scuffle is disparity in salaries. Industries to try and bridge this gap to prevent such social unrest.

Last edited by benbsb29 : 23rd July 2012 at 21:53. Reason: Long post quote trimmed for the benefit of mobile users.
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Old 23rd July 2012, 17:34   #145
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Default Re: Strike woes haunt Maruti's Manesar plant again. 1 DEAD & Production hit

Violence should not be justified. Employees have the right to strike, but not to injure and kill people and to damage and burn down property. This would be bad for Manufacturing industry as a whole in the long run as bright engineers and executives would turn away from it.
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Old 24th July 2012, 08:36   #146
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Default Re: Strike woes haunt Maruti's Manesar plant again. 1 DEAD & Production hit

FWIW, here's a comment from a Firstpost article,
ofcourse it is hearsay, but since there are fact claims they can be further cross checked with further sources

Quote:
Puneet • 4 days ago −
Having worked in Maruti I can say that this was long overdue. Maruti is an insensitive and inhuman organization. The management treats everyone like slaves. Even if they decide to shift to Gujarat they will continue to face the same issues because the DNA and culture of the company will never change.
Though I dont justify violence on part of Maruti workers, I would like to know from the members commenting here that how would you feel if.
1. The managers of the company use all sorts of language while talking to you,search for opportunities to fire you left right and centre.
2. If you are not allowed to even go to the loo even after standing and working 8-10 hrs?
3. If your day's salary gets cut for reporting 1 min late?
4. If you are not allowed to take any leaves? Maruti treats even one leave as crime ( even if is planned) and remember Maruti is a full 6 day a week working org.
5. and If your 4 days leaves get cut for taking one unplanned off?
6. If you have to spend 20 minutes out of 30 mins commuting form your shop floor to the canteen for food?
7. The company which is so vindictive that they withdrew the pick and drop facility just to teach workers a lesson.
8. They just boast of Japanese culture. but they have implemented only the worse parts of it. May I ask why is there 6 day a week in India when it a 5 day working week in Japan? Why havent this been adopted?
Maruti feels that the harder you make an employee's life, harder he will work. They use this as a management tool. I can go on and on and on.I am ashamed on myself for being associated with such a ruthless company in my career.
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Old 24th July 2012, 09:32   #147
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Default Re: Strike woes haunt Maruti's Manesar plant again. 1 DEAD & Production hit

Even more appalling. Comments of the (dis)honourable CM about a political conspiracy etc. yesterday.

Also, Congress going crazy about Modi soliciting investments from Japan. Ambika Soni's comments were totally uncalled for.

@grazd; If you did not agree, then you can vote with your feet - quite. You do not go and commit murder.

Last edited by sgiitk : 24th July 2012 at 09:33.
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Old 24th July 2012, 09:48   #148
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Default Re: Strike woes haunt Maruti's Manesar plant again. 1 DEAD & Production hit

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FWIW, here's a comment from a Firstpost article,
ofcourse it is hearsay, but since there are fact claims they can be further cross checked with further sources
are maruti's royalties owed to Suzuki dependent on profits or irrespective of the same. In any case, they should take their foot off the profit maximisation pedal for a while and concentrate slightly more on worker welfare measures and ensure adequate inline R&R to prevent frayed nerves and fatigue overdose. In a sense reading the comments, one gets the feeling Maruti is behaving like an offshore gulag for suzuki which may have been the case ten years ago but now that it has established itself in it's own right it has no reason to continue such repressive practices. Maybe the govt and labour ministry should intervene more effectively to put an end to this because a lot of issues there are due to lack of any organized mainstream unions being allowed into the picture.
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Old 24th July 2012, 10:42   #149
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Default Re: Strike woes haunt Maruti's Manesar plant again. 1 DEAD & Production hit

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Even more appalling. Comments of the (dis)honourable CM about a political conspiracy etc. yesterday.
This is the new fad. Anything unpalatable which shows them in a negative light is definitely the work of the Maoists. By the mid of next month even our met department will be blaming the lack of monsoons on the Maoists. I expect all bobbleheads on idiot box to go bonkers trying to seriously establish a link between failure of monsoons and a Maoist conspiracy.

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Also, Congress going crazy about Modi soliciting investments from Japan. Ambika Soni's comments were totally uncalled for.
I didn't even get what she meant to say there. I feel a lot of this now is grandstanding by all political leaders including Modi in view of impending state and national elections.

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are maruti's royalties owed to Suzuki dependent on profits or irrespective of the same. In any case, they should take their foot off the profit maximisation pedal for a while and concentrate slightly more on worker welfare measures and ensure adequate inline R&R to prevent frayed nerves and fatigue overdose. In a sense reading the comments, one gets the feeling Maruti is behaving like an offshore gulag for suzuki which may have been the case ten years ago but now that it has established itself in it's own right it has no reason to continue such repressive practices. Maybe the govt and labour ministry should intervene more effectively to put an end to this because a lot of issues there are due to lack of any organized mainstream unions being allowed into the picture.
You hit the nail on the head. While our labor laws are weak the laws governing manufacturing and corporations are equally lackadaisical. Case in point is the recent Vodafone tax screw up. We should also look at the global standing of the Suzuki group as I had stated earlier. Outside India apart from motorbikes they are nobodies. Sometimes I feel the Suzuki family is just surviving because of India hence their obsession about squeezing everything possible like a lemon out here. By letting these incidents happen they are just speeding up their sayonara process as a business group.

Last edited by samarjitdhar : 24th July 2012 at 10:43.
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Old 24th July 2012, 11:55   #150
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Default Re: Strike woes haunt Maruti's Manesar plant again. 1 DEAD & Production hit

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Sometimes I feel the Suzuki family is just surviving because of India hence their obsession about squeezing everything possible like a lemon out here. By letting these incidents happen they are just speeding up their sayonara process as a business group.
Have no direct evidence to support this, but have the claims of worker exploitation by Maruti got shriller after Govt of India sold their share to Suzuki. Until now they managed to get away by pushing things under the broad desi corporate carpet where comparitively greenfield sectors like private banking, offshore support services, call centres, IT industry etc were allowed to operate without employee unions. But then look at the gruesome conditions employees and non-managers have to work in these industries. Suzuki merrily climbed onto this bandwagon and escaped censure for so long and only class who perhaps complained but no one was prepared to listen were the workers. Doubt whether they can carry on with the charade any longer. Common .. a worker is not allowed a pee-break ... *** is this .. a banana republic !
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