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Old 2nd August 2012, 11:43   #61
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Default Re: Will Tata Motors be able to regain its market share?

^^^ I believe you are referring to Mahindra Verito. Moreover, I believe the contrary, as Tata, apart from the Safari Storme, have few products in the pipe line, viz - the stretched Indica, >4M Manza, & they are yet to open the Manza for the Taxi market, which can surely bring good numbers to them.

But, over all a good fight between the Indian auto majors is good for both of these.

BTW, Tata have closed the factory lines in this month, the second time in recent past. Good opportunity to M&M to surge ahead.

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Old 2nd August 2012, 11:43   #62
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Default Re: Will Tata Motors be able to regain its market share?

Way back in the 90s, Tata launched the Sumo... M&M bettered it and launched the Bolero which pushed down the sales of the Sumo.

Then Tata launched the Safari... M&M bettered it and launched the Scorpio which pushed down the sales of the Safari.

Then Tata launched the Grande... M&M bettered it and launched the Xylo which pushed down the sales of the Grande.

Then Tata launched the Aria... M&M bettered it and launched the XUV5OO which pushed down the sales of the Aria.

It is the hatchbacks segment where M&M has not given a fight to TATA... with the launch of the mini Xylo, even that would be history.

Point is, if you compare model to model, M&M's UVs have always done better numbers than Tata's. Why? TATA is a much bigger manufacturer with obviously much more resources when compared to M&M. Then what is lacking? I feel it's market research, product planning and execution. Well I agree, its easier said than done, but I believe, if M&M can do it, so can TATA.

M&M rolls out what the customer wants and at the right prices. Tata rolls out what it feels is appropriate and more often than not, it turns out to be a market dud. Their cars are not bad, they just need to focus more on their vehicle's QC and market positioning.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 11:44   #63
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Originally Posted by arvindmanju View Post
I see this as a temp phenomena, M&M are in a better position to take on the place compared to TATA. With the launch of face lift Vento, expected sub 4mtr xylo & Vento they can clock more numbers.
On the other side TATA has new look Safari for this year. Their existing products need innovation, better A.S.S etc for them to keep the position.
Buddy, I presume you meant the Verito & not the VW Vento?!
I agree, I too see this as a temp phenomena,but only for the short term. Tata too has Nano Diesel coming up in a year.It has the Safari Storme too.

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Old 2nd August 2012, 15:13   #64
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Originally Posted by powertrain

Buddy, I presume you meant the Verito & not the VW Vento?!
I agree, I too see this as a temp phenomena,but only for the short term. Tata too has Nano Diesel coming up in a year.It has the Safari Storme too.

Regards
Varun
Thanks Varun, my mistake it's Verito and not VW Vento

Nano diesel is expected in mid 2013, hope they make a proper car and not do R&D on the first batch of Nano D customer.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 21:20   #65
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Default Re: Will Tata Motors be able to regain its market share?

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Originally Posted by CARDEEP View Post
they are yet to open the Manza for the Taxi market, which can surely bring good numbers to them.
Manza is already open to the taxi market. I have travelled numerous times in Meru Plus and they have a good number of Manzas.

Taxi-Taxi in Coimbatore too have a good share of Manzas.

People must flock to Tata as they do to Mahindras for XUV. More people = more turn-over = more market share. Hope Tata really up thier game and fight

- I Wish they had recruited Arvind Saxena from Hyundai.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 23:54   #66
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Default Re: Will Tata Motors be able to regain its market share?

Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
Way back in the 90s, Tata launched the Sumo... M&M bettered it and launched the Bolero which pushed down the sales of the Sumo.

Then Tata launched the Safari... M&M bettered it and launched the Scorpio which pushed down the sales of the Safari.

Then Tata launched the Grande... M&M bettered it and launched the Xylo which pushed down the sales of the Grande.

Then Tata launched the Aria... M&M bettered it and launched the XUV5OO which pushed down the sales of the Aria.

It is the hatchbacks segment where M&M has not given a fight to TATA... with the launch of the mini Xylo, even that would be history.
Agree to all the points mentioned by you except the First one.

Sumo when launched in 1994 was a smash hit, Bolero was not doing numbers back then, it was Sumo which ruled the UV market till end of 90's.

TATA somehow lost the plot with SUMO while M&M smartly kept upgrading Bolero in many aspects and its been selling well since last 6-7 years.
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Old 3rd August 2012, 15:20   #67
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Sumo when launched in 1994 was a smash hit, Bolero was not doing numbers back then, it was Sumo which ruled the UV market till end of 90's.

TATA somehow lost the plot with SUMO while M&M smartly kept upgrading Bolero in many aspects and its been selling well since last 6-7 years.
While it is no denying that Sumo was a huge hit, the launch of Bolero in 2000 did make a negative impact on Sumo sales. Bolero did good numbers from the beginning but not all the sales came from prospective Sumo buyers. Many people upgraded from Commander, quite a few people shifted from cars.

Bolero sales too dipped by 2005 - 06 but M&M upped ante with the launch of new look Bolero, and more importantly, with Turbo DI engine.

It is true that Bolero is regularly updated to stay in the reckoning.

Tata may have their reasons for designing Vista the way it looks, I believe they should have gone for more flashier design. That was a missed opportunity for them. For many months people mistook Vista for Indica, and that shape was a big dampener.

Scorpio looked lighter and good than a Safari.

I hoped for a good fight in market between Safar 2.2 DICOR and M-Hawk 2.2 but Safari lagged behind.

Manza did good numbers but many are concerned about the length, and then Etios came along.

Most important thing is, many people are put-off as they associate TATA brand with taxi segment. Tata must come out of this to gain strongly in market.

Last edited by simplyself : 3rd August 2012 at 15:33.
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Old 4th August 2012, 02:26   #68
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Most important thing is, many people are put-off as they associate TATA brand with taxi segment. Tata must come out of this to gain strongly in market.
Most first time buyer do not even consider buying a TATA car, such is the image, but things are changing albeit at a slow rate and cars like nano and manza are finding more acceptance.

I liked the original front end design in vista, they have spoiled the looks by getting the manza look at front which looks ungainly for a hatch IMO.

SUMO will be launched in a redesigned version ( Only front and rear )maybe 1 year down the line, they are already working on it.
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Old 4th August 2012, 07:57   #69
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Default Re: Will Tata Motors be able to regain its market share?

In my opinion, unless it hits them where it hurts the most, tata will not rework their attitude towards quality, and continue with business as usual. They have done this before (Remember the Indica V2) - I think there is a strong business case for another Juran Style quality effort at Tata. Question is, have they realized it, or are they still waiting for it to get worse ?

Last edited by greenhorn : 4th August 2012 at 07:59.
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Old 5th August 2012, 17:50   #70
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Default Re: Will Tata Motors be able to regain its market share?

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Tata may have their reasons for designing Vista the way it looks, I believe they should have gone for more flashier design. That was a missed opportunity for them. For many months people mistook Vista for Indica, and that shape was a big dampener.
Indica Vista outsells the Flashy Polo and Punto. What could have happened if it was designed like them? :-).

I do agree that certain car models can be a hit if it was marketed by some car makers as their own brand (Like Maruti). Maruti's many of the so called failure models are doing as good as other manufactures top selling models.
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Old 7th August 2012, 15:18   #71
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Indica Vista outsells the Flashy Polo and Punto. What could have happened if it was designed like them? :-).

I do agree that certain car models can be a hit if it was marketed by some car makers as their own brand (Like Maruti). Maruti's many of the so called failure models are doing as good as other manufactures top selling models.
Polo is unknown brand, Fiat isnt trusted.

We might know Volkswagen but not many would. Another issue is service cost, which is perceived to be exorbitant.

Fiat never fully recovered from the fiasco when it entered the market. Such was the beating the image took that even Tata could not lift it.
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Old 7th August 2012, 16:24   #72
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Default Re: Will Tata Motors be able to regain its market share?

The 2012 India Dealer Satisfaction Survey is quite revealing and very relevant to this thread.
Refer to the pie chart in the attachment. JD Power says, almost 50% of dealer satisfaction to OEM depends on OEM support to dealer, vehicle ordering and product.
In the main chart Tata Motors is just a notch above FIAT. Keeping in mind that the recent crop of TML products are better than yesteryears, would be interested to know how the company fares in the other parameters as listed by JD Power.
Maybe we are missing the woods for the trees and slamming the poor Indica's and Indigo's too much when the real reason for TML's loss of marketshare lies elsewhere.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf JDP 2012 Dealer Satisfaction_OEM Survey.pdf (167.9 KB, 219 views)
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Old 7th August 2012, 16:29   #73
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Default Re: Will Tata Motors be able to regain its market share?

the new lot of Vista has very poor plastic quality, panel gap issues and such glaring problems that TATA was infamous for!!!

the initial batch of Vista showed great improvement from TATA, but now it seems they are loosening the noose again on quality control, perhaps in the name of cost cutting!
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Old 7th August 2012, 16:56   #74
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Default Re: Will Tata Motors be able to regain its market share?

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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
In my opinion, unless it hits them where it hurts the most, tata will not rework their attitude towards quality, and continue with business as usual. They have done this before (Remember the Indica V2) - I think there is a strong business case for another Juran Style quality effort at Tata. Question is, have they realized it, or are they still waiting for it to get worse ?
Last month I was speaking to my cousin who works with TML who indicated that next year they would come up with a number of new launches on the existing platforms and they were working hard to ensure quality.

However I did not ask him about the cost cutting that is so evident in the Vista - I guess they would keep at it to keep the accountants satisfied.
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Old 8th August 2012, 23:48   #75
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Default Re: Will Tata Motors be able to regain its market share?

With the way the 1.5 million market is maturing, People are expecting even better customer service.

Hyundai was the no2 in customer satisfaction survey 2 years back, even-though before 2 years, 1.5+ million options were very few and sales figures were dismal.

Even if Tata has niggles, At least it can acknowledge and fix issues akin to M&M for XUV. IMHO, The average indian customer is looking at fixing niggles only, for a head start from Indian companies like Tata and Mahindra. People who buy say a Tata vehicle are mentally prepared for niggles.

If customer care is addressed, Tata with its pricing can sure dent the market. It is just not sufficient to put together a car with few features from JLR stable and price it on par with Japanese counterparts.

Last edited by scopriobharath : 8th August 2012 at 23:51.
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