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Old 8th May 2013, 09:50   #256
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Default Re: Kizashi at a whopping discount of Rs.5 lakhs!! UPDATE: Now at 11.49 L, Details Pg

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Well, for one, there is not much clarity about this new pricing. One hears widely varying prices for different states. Also is it for 1-2 year old cars that have been sitting in the yard ? Then maybe yes, it is the price it deserves. But if these are for new imports, it is a steal given that the car is a CBU, a huge customs-duty etc etc.

Not sure why you expect a 15-20L car to have "path-breaking" stuff in it. What is so path breaking about the other cars that cost that much or more ? Eg a Corolla fitted with a 1.4D engine that retails for like 15-16 lakhs ? For the same or lesser money, if I get a made-in-Japan car that puts out 180bhp, is more spacious and has great dynamics, I believe it is path-breaking. Or an Accord ? The current 10-15L range is what was the earlier 7-10lakh segment as far as purchasing power/aspiration-levels of today go.
One more thing is that people are even buying fluence petrol which costs nearly as much as the Kizashi without discount then why can't they put their money in a much more trustworthy brand that has bullet proof reliability.

Plus the Kizashi even has more features and with the updated price that I have mentioned it should even eat into the sales of verna and vento.
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Old 8th May 2013, 09:57   #257
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The kizashi is performing well and atleast here in Andhra and most other big states, all the stocks have been sold. The fluence e4 petrol is quite a nice car it does have its own advantages too. I am sure stocks of the kizashi will be cleared in a month or two but for the company to go any further they must provide support for the vehicle dealers should be equipped to handle kizashi customers.
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Old 8th May 2013, 10:04   #258
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Default re: Maruti Suzuki Kizashi - Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
The kizashi is performing well and atleast here in Andhra and most other big states, all the stocks have been sold. The fluence e4 petrol is quite a nice car it does have its own advantages too. I am sure stocks of the kizashi will be cleared in a month or two but for the company to go any further they must provide support for the vehicle dealers should be equipped to handle kizashi customers.
The stock clearence may be one of the reasons to the high discounts. But if we go by the sales figures of Kizashi for the years 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 which are figures that show dispatch to dealers and not actual sales then this means the complete opposite. According to those figures dealers should have loads of stock with them.

If we go by the information given here (April 2013 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis) then 116 cars were sent to dealers just in november and december 2012, I don't think they have managed to sell 116 cars in just 4 months. Which means they should be having at the Minimum 70 cars with them that is without considering the previous stock that is already lying idle with them.

Last edited by rockporiom : 8th May 2013 at 10:15.
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Old 8th May 2013, 10:16   #259
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Default Re: Kizashi at a whopping discount of Rs.5 lakhs!! UPDATE: Now at 11.49 L, Details Pg

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Originally Posted by rockporiom
The Kizashi MT is now available for Rs 13,00,000 OTR ahmedabad that is the 2012 model. Further the 2011 model is available for Rs.12,00,000 OTR ahmedabad that is a staggering Rs. 7.89 Lakhs off.
Thanks for posting these, rockporiom. The 13L OTR for 2012 model sounds inviting. At the same time, wonder what issues to be wary of in a car that has been lying idle for a year or more. I assume this was the price you got your car for - could you post the breakup (ex-showroom, Insurance, Tax etc) ? Will drop by the Chennai dealer tomorrow to see if they have any good deals.

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Originally Posted by rockporiom
One more thing is that people are even buying fluence petrol which costs nearly as much as the Kizashi without discount then why can't they put their money in a much more trustworthy brand that has bullet proof reliability
I think the reason here is that while Renault is trying to sell the Fluence, Suzuki is not pushing the K. Another thing going against the Kizashi is that inspite of the heavy discounts, people would be wary of picking up a car that has been lying the warehouse for 1-2 years.
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Old 8th May 2013, 10:26   #260
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Default Re: Kizashi at a whopping discount of Rs.5 lakhs!! UPDATE: Now at 11.49 L, Details Pg

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Thanks for posting these, rockporiom. The 13L OTR for 2012 model sounds inviting. At the same time, wonder what issues to be wary of in a car that has been lying idle for a year or more. I assume this was the price you got your car for - could you post the breakup (ex-showroom, Insurance, Tax etc) ? Will drop by the Chennai dealer tomorrow to see if they have any good deals.

I think the reason here is that while Renault is trying to sell the Fluence, Suzuki is not pushing the K. Another thing going against the Kizashi is that inspite of the heavy discounts, people would be wary of picking up a car that has been lying the warehouse for 1-2 years.
No unfortunately this is not the price what I got since mine was about 7 months old I have cited the reason in my ownership review here (Suzuki Kizashi - Unleash the Beast). Do remember one thing any dealer that you go to will not give you the best price he will most probably start with 14.5 lakhs as his offer price you have to counter offer to get the best price. Please ensure you get prices near what I have mentioned.

The things you need to check is:

1) signs of any dents or damage to body
2) blackening of mirrors
3) Odometer reading(will be atleast 30 Kms)
4) seats
5) carpets
6) check for corrosion on indicators
7) ensure you get mudflaps as they are standard(otherwise it costs Rs.6000)
8) check lights in the sun visors
9) check for any paint jobs done on the car(if you find any you may reject the car or ask for further discount that is upto you.)
10) check courtesy lamps under the front doors


Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
I think the reason here is that while Renault is trying to sell the Fluence, Suzuki is not pushing the K. Another thing going against the Kizashi is that in spite of the heavy discounts, people would be wary of picking up a car that has been lying the warehouse for 1-2 years.
One thing is true Suzuki didn't create awareness for the car so no one knows about it AFAIK. I don't people are afraid because it is old stock I think they are worried about parts availability.

Last edited by rockporiom : 8th May 2013 at 10:43.
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Old 8th May 2013, 10:47   #261
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Can one add a CNG kit directly from Maruti in the Kizashi? That would make running cost much lower and I assume with the 180 bhp engine, it won't I,pact performance too much either. What do you think?
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Old 8th May 2013, 10:51   #262
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Default re: Maruti Suzuki Kizashi - Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by ajit_72 View Post
Can one add a CNG kit directly from Maruti in the Kizashi? That would make running cost much lower and I assume with the 180 bhp engine, it won't I,pact performance too much either. What do you think?
No, Maruti doesn't provide a gas kit and I would not recommend putting an aftermarket gas kit since it would void warranty of the engine immediately. Plus if anything goes wrong it will be a very expensive mistake. The engine is quiet sophisticated and I would not want to hamper with it.

Last edited by rockporiom : 8th May 2013 at 10:52.
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Old 8th May 2013, 11:30   #263
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Default Re: Kizashi at a whopping discount of Rs.5 lakhs!! UPDATE: Now at 11.49 L, Details Pg

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockporiom View Post
One more thing is that people are even buying fluence petrol which costs nearly as much as the Kizashi without discount then why can't they put their money in a much more trustworthy brand that has bullet proof reliability.

Plus the Kizashi even has more features and with the updated price that I have mentioned it should even eat into the sales of verna and vento.
You are doing the right comparison, but unfortunately Suzuki thought the car should compete with the likes of Skoda Superb, VW Passat, Honda Accord etc., and priced it out in that range. Once a product goes into the market with a high sticker price, itís very hard to drop back and sell (even with heavy discounts). Only a few informed buyers will give it a second look (like a few Kizashi owners in this forum).

The Kizashi indeed is a brilliant effort from Suzuki. I feel it should have done really well if it was the top end of the segment where Renault Fluence, Laura /Jetta TSI, Civic etc are placed.
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Old 8th May 2013, 11:54   #264
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Default Re: Kizashi at a whopping discount of Rs.5 lakhs!! UPDATE: Now at 11.49 L, Details Pg

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Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
You are doing the right comparison, but unfortunately Suzuki thought the car should compete with the likes of Skoda Superb, VW Passat, Honda Accord etc., and priced it out in that range. Once a product goes into the market with a high sticker price, itís very hard to drop back and sell (even with heavy discounts). Only a few informed buyers will give it a second look (like a few Kizashi owners in this forum).

The Kizashi indeed is a brilliant effort from Suzuki. I feel it should have done really well if it was the top end of the segment where Renault Fluence, Laura /Jetta TSI, Civic etc are placed.
Suzuki isn't wrong in comparing the car with the above named cars because in the US of A the Kizashi competes with Mercedes C300, the Audi A4 and the Acura TSX and literally defeats all of them in accelaration, braking, handling and safety It even managed to average out 560 units per month before suzuki declared bankruptcy in America.
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Old 8th May 2013, 12:27   #265
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Default Re: Kizashi at a whopping discount of Rs.5 lakhs!! UPDATE: Now at 11.49 L, Details Pg

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Originally Posted by rockporiom View Post
Suzuki isn't wrong in comparing the car with the above named cars because in the US of A the Kizashi competes with Mercedes C300, the Audi A4 and the Acura TSX and literally defeats all of them in accelaration, braking, handling and safety It even managed to average out 560 units per month before suzuki declared bankruptcy in America.
If they are not wrong, the car should have been a runaway success in the markets where it was launched. The Kizashi might have done well in the US NHTSA NCAP tests, but thatís hardly a benchmark for markets outside (especially for India).

Itís actually a non-starter even in Asian markets. For example, if I am in the market for a mid-size sedan (here in Singapore), I probably will go for a cheaper VW Jetta TSI 1.4 Sport. Size, features, safety etc. are comparable to the Kizashi, the 1.4 TSI (160bhp) maybe slightly less powerful compared to the 2.4L 178bhp, but the turbo petrol have better 0-100 figures, better fuel efficiency, and is easy on tax due to the smaller cc engine.

I believe if Suzuki get hold of a bigger diesel engine from Fiat (say the 1.6 /1.9 multijet), and re-launch the Kizashi as a CKD, it has the potential to do well.
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Old 8th May 2013, 16:35   #266
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Default re: Maruti Suzuki Kizashi - Discussion Thread

It's a shame this car didn't sell. It's quite a looker. I still remember seeing the Kizashi concept pics way back when and wondering if it would be as good looking at launch.

Wasn't the same, but it did not disappoint. Also shameful that Maruti is stuck in this 'Value for money' segment where anything premium from Maruti just isn't considered worth buying.
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Old 8th May 2013, 16:45   #267
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Default re: Maruti Suzuki Kizashi - Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Bingeljell View Post
Also shameful that Maruti is stuck in this 'Value for money' segment where anything premium from Maruti just isn't considered worth buying.
Classic case where a manufacturer finds it tough to step-up on the ladder whereas its always easier to come down the ladder.
For best eg. Maruti - Its strong hold lies in the A/ B segments. With brand image it has now, people will always perceive it as a value for money car in these segments only. Its tough for them to re-position themselves in another segment. A product can be positioned but brand image cannot. So whenever a buyer is looking for a car in the range of 15-20 lacs, he may not even think of a Maruti product.
For another example, take Honda/ VW etc. They entered India as premium car manufacturers but now they have satisfactorily selling products in lower segments like the Amaze/ Brio for the Honda, and Polo for the VW.

Last edited by saket77 : 8th May 2013 at 16:47.
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Old 8th May 2013, 17:14   #268
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Default re: Maruti Suzuki Kizashi - Discussion Thread

It's not impossible to do, but it probably needs to be done in a more planned manner.

I'm sure if Maruti launched a 8-12(maybe 14)lac sedan which was packed with features and showcased Luxury in a new way, that would be something people might consider. They'd have to spend a lot money pimping the Car as well as showcasing their 'premium' side.

Once the VFM tag has been sort of wiped off, it becomes easier for the brand to take risks with moving higher up the price range.

A colleague suggested that it probably makes sense for them to launch under a completely different brand name that's owned by Maruti Suzuki. Much like what Lexus does for Toyota or Infinity for Nissan. Easier to make a good first impression while stuff is still ambiguous than it is to change impressions that have been set over the last 20 years.
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Old 8th May 2013, 17:15   #269
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Default re: Maruti Suzuki Kizashi - Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by saket77
Maruti - Its strong hold lies in the A/ B segments. With brand image it has now, people will always perceive it as a value for money car in these segments only. Its tough for them to re-position themselves in another segment. A product can be positioned but brand image cannot.
For another example, take Honda/ VW etc. They entered India as premium car manufacturers but now they have satisfactorily selling products in lower segments like the Amaze/ Brio for the Honda, and Polo for the VW.
As has been said multiple times, this has nothing to do with brand image. And for God's sake, don't make it seem like Honda is in the Merc/Beemer category with Suzuki way down the food chain - both are peers, making mostly similar reliable cars with their respective strong/poor markets. For eg. in Japan I have seen these small pick-ups (like our Tata Ace) from Suzuki / Honda / Mitsu and other car-majors. So does having a Chotta Haathi in their line-up make them lack brand image ?

As far as the failure of Kizashi (or GV) is concerned, we have moved to be a diesel-favouring market and there aren't many who would buy a petrol sedan/SUV in the C+ or D segment. And this is not just about Suzuki cars. Before the Amaze-D came in, how many Hondas were being sold ? If not for the diesel car, they would have shut shop here. Same for other so-called premium manufacturers. In Apr-2013 figures, Skoda sold just 1 petrol-Laura for 125 diesel-Lauras. So, it is mainly about the 1st P - Product. Give a Product that the market likes and the car will sell, irrespective of the manufacturer. How many people buy the Renault Pulse / Scala / Fluence ? Each of which are flops if you compare with their respective peers. But look at the Duster from the same manufacturer. People queue up there for months, paying a premium of lakh+ over initial intro prices for the product. As simple as that.

And as if the fuel did not kill the Kizashi, the screwed up pricing and the subsequent discounts completed the job. If they had priced it sensibly, the car would have done better.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 8th May 2013 at 17:17.
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Old 8th May 2013, 17:53   #270
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Default re: Maruti Suzuki Kizashi - Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
If they are not wrong, the car should have been a runaway success in the markets where it was launched. The Kizashi might have done well in the US NHTSA NCAP tests, but that’s hardly a benchmark for markets outside (especially for India).

It’s actually a non-starter even in Asian markets. For example, if I am in the market for a mid-size sedan (here in Singapore), I probably will go for a cheaper VW Jetta TSI 1.4 Sport. Size, features, safety etc. are comparable to the Kizashi, the 1.4 TSI (160bhp) maybe slightly less powerful compared to the 2.4L 178bhp, but the turbo petrol have better 0-100 figures, better fuel efficiency, and is easy on tax due to the smaller cc engine.

I believe if Suzuki get hold of a bigger diesel engine from Fiat (say the 1.6 /1.9 multijet), and re-launch the Kizashi as a CKD, it has the potential to do well.
Firstly would like too point out that the new jetta did not get a good safety rating AFAIK it was rated "acceptable" in the safety test.

Secondly, The problem with most japs is that their petrol motors are big guzzelers when they are powerful(for eg v6 accord, 2.4 accord, kizashi, grand vitara, CRV). Instead of increasing size if they just put a turbo in their 1.6 engine it can develope 140HP though not enough for kizashi it can be used in ertiga and sx4. If a turbo is strapped on to the 2.4 engine on either the accord or kizashi it can develope a whopping 250-300BHP which is way more than what the v6 accord produces. Plus it is more fuel effecient and less polluting than a naturally aspirated V6.

Another problem is that most of them don't have a diesel power plant which is a major disadvantage in a country like India. Honda got smart and introduced its 1.5L I-DTEC engine which will definately lead it to success.

Maruti Suzuki is still dependent on Fiat for diesel power plants, further these power plants are limited to their capacity and can produce at Max 95 BHP which is not enough even for SX4 leave alone Kizashi. Plus they also carry a hefty premium. Suzuki was also in the same boat as honda since in reality they never really had a diesel engine. It is high time they develop a diesel engine for their cars which is actually made by them(unike the 1.3 and 1.9DDIS engines) because when it comes to engines the japanese are real good at it.


By the way the thread is again going so this will be my last reply to any comment regarding engines. Please stick to the topic or else there is a risk that the thread might be closed again.


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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
As has been said multiple times, this has nothing to do with brand image. And for God's sake, don't make it seem like Honda is in the Merc/Beemer category with Suzuki way down the food chain - both are peers, making mostly similar reliable cars with their respective strong/poor markets. For eg. in Japan I have seen these small pick-ups (like our Tata Ace) from Suzuki / Honda / Mitsu and other car-majors. So does having a Chotta Haathi in their line-up make them lack brand image ?

As far as the failure of Kizashi (or GV) is concerned, we have moved to be a diesel-favouring market and there aren't many who would buy a petrol sedan/SUV in the C+ or D segment. And this is not just about Suzuki cars. Before the Amaze-D came in, how many Hondas were being sold ? If not for the diesel car, they would have shut shop here. Same for other so-called premium manufacturers. In Apr-2013 figures, Skoda sold just 1 petrol-Laura for 125 diesel-Lauras. So, it is mainly about the 1st P - Product. Give a Product that the market likes and the car will sell, irrespective of the manufacturer. How many people buy the Renault Pulse / Scala / Fluence ? Each of which are flops if you compare with their respective peers. But look at the Duster from the same manufacturer. People queue up there for months, paying a premium of lakh+ over initial intro prices for the product. As simple as that.

And as if the fuel did not kill the Kizashi, the screwed up pricing and the subsequent discounts completed the job. If they had priced it sensibly, the car would have done better.
Truly said that our market has become a diesel favoring market but I don't think that it is going to be the case for long. Petrol prices are coming down and diesel prices are going up so there might be a time when diesel and petrol cost the same.

The only advantage with diesel is mileage which make it more economical to own a diesel vehicle even if diesel is costlier than owning a petrol vehicle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingeljell View Post
It's not impossible to do, but it probably needs to be done in a more planned manner.

I'm sure if Maruti launched a 8-12(maybe 14)lac sedan which was packed with features and showcased Luxury in a new way, that would be something people might consider. They'd have to spend a lot money pimping the Car as well as showcasing their 'premium' side.

Once the VFM tag has been sort of wiped off, it becomes easier for the brand to take risks with moving higher up the price range.

A colleague suggested that it probably makes sense for them to launch under a completely different brand name that's owned by Maruti Suzuki. Much like what Lexus does for Toyota or Infinity for Nissan. Easier to make a good first impression while stuff is still ambiguous than it is to change impressions that have been set over the last 20 years.
Absolutely correct they should have first launched a different car to compete with a 13-14 lakh market. This would have helped them create enough goodwill to launch the Kizashi about a year or a year and a half later. Maruti in this case used the lift instead of the stairs which led to the disastrous consequences for Kizashi.

Maruti could have saved the project eve after initial low response. By getting only initial 100-200 units as CBU and make remaining as CKD in India. This would helped reduce the price by 1.5 Lakhs and with the help of creating brand awareness they could have easily made it a success. Even honda Accord is a CBU and it is enjoying an average of 150 units a month, Honda didn't always have a premium brand value from birth they created it for themselves.

Last edited by rockporiom : 8th May 2013 at 18:04.
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