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Old 18th December 2012, 14:53   #136
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Default re: *Rumour* : Honda Civic to be pulled off from India

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Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Autocar India issues started showing up the Civic again, in the car prices section. It was not showing since 4-5 months, and suddenly it reappeared with present pricing.
Reiterates the fact that the Civic is here to stay
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Old 18th December 2012, 15:09   #137
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Post re: *Rumour* : Honda Civic to be pulled off from India

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Reiterates the fact that the Civic is here to stay
I'm not so sure about that. Honda hasn't conclusively divulged their plans for the Civic in India. Now whether the latest Civic will get the state-of-the-art 1.6 i-DTEC engine from the European market, remains to be seen. It is a well-known secret that Honda feels it isnít a great fit for our conditions. Besides the new Civic that was launched last year isnít a huge improvement over the outgoing model.

Make no mistake though, I would only be delighted if they revived the Civic in India. I think it is a iconic car of sorts - not just for Honda but also for, in many ways, reshaping the D segment here.
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Old 18th December 2012, 15:24   #138
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Default re: *Rumour* : Honda Civic to be pulled off from India

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Originally Posted by Omtoatom View Post
I'm not so sure about that. Honda hasn't conclusively divulged their plans for the Civic in India. Now whether the latest Civic will get the state-of-the-art 1.6 i-DTEC engine from the European market, remains to be seen. It is a well-known secret that Honda feels it isnít a great fit for our conditions. Besides the new Civic that was launched last year isnít a huge improvement over the outgoing model.

Make no mistake though, I would only be delighted if they revived the Civic in India. I think it is a iconic car of sorts - not just for Honda but also for, in many ways, reshaping the D segment here.
Revival is a certainty. The only question is when. The current civic in india is still a stellar car, I can speak from my own experience of owning a 2006 Civic. The only reason for its downfall is the lack of a diesel mill.
I think, what Honda felt is that its important to keep the car afloat, till they have a diesel engine ready, just so that it remains in the minds of people. My Civic is giving me an overall mileage of 13.5 kmpl in Delhi. I am pretty happy with that.
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Old 18th December 2012, 16:17   #139
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Post re: *Rumour* : Honda Civic to be pulled off from India

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Originally Posted by coolkurt View Post
Revival is a certainty. The only question is when. The current civic in india is still a stellar car, I can speak from my own experience of owning a 2006 Civic. The only reason for its downfall is the lack of a diesel mill.
I think, what Honda felt is that its important to keep the car afloat, till they have a diesel engine ready, just so that it remains in the minds of people. My Civic is giving me an overall mileage of 13.5 kmpl in Delhi. I am pretty happy with that.
I'm sure it is Kurt. There's no question of the car's stardom buddy - why just in India but globally. I'm just saying Honda themselves seem to be unclear about the future strategy of such a stellar car from their stable. Even the press statements/reports emanating out of their hut aren't exactly confidence inspiring.

While the petrol Civic in India is understandably struggling to find its footing in a diesel-dominated segment that it finds itself in, Honda has not exactly been falling over the competition either to plonk a diesel mill under the Civic's hood. Firstly they have clearly missed the bus. To add to that, they seem to be skeptical/apprehensive about their own much talked about i-DTEC engine and its chances as the Civic's heart.

The Civic has served countless owners across the globe such as yourself commendably well. I see no reason for Honda to disregard that legacy and brand value. Except they cannot afford to be messed up in their mind. That's all I'm trying to say man.

Last edited by Omtoatom : 18th December 2012 at 16:21.
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Old 18th December 2012, 17:05   #140
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Default re: *Rumour* : Honda Civic to be pulled off from India

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Originally Posted by Omtoatom View Post
I'm sure it is Kurt. There's no question of the car's stardom buddy - why just in India but globally. I'm just saying Honda themselves seem to be unclear about the future strategy of such a stellar car from their stable. Even the press statements/reports emanating out of their hut aren't exactly confidence inspiring.

While the petrol Civic in India is understandably struggling to find its footing in a diesel-dominated segment that it finds itself in, Honda has not exactly been falling over the competition either to plonk a diesel mill under the Civic's hood. Firstly they have clearly missed the bus. To add to that, they seem to be skeptical/apprehensive about their own much talked about i-DTEC engine and its chances as the Civic's heart.

The Civic has served countless owners across the globe such as yourself commendably well. I see no reason for Honda to disregard that legacy and brand value. Except they cannot afford to be messed up in their mind. That's all I'm trying to say man.
Truly agree with that. What i'm trying to say is that its sad to see this thirst for the dirty fool. Brilliant petrol cars like the civic are pushed into neglection due to this.
I am going to keep my '06 civic for atleast 5 more years. Going by the discounts, I think if one is still in the market for a sporty petrol sedan, one neednt look beyond the civic. its far from dated. Hopefully honda delivers.
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Old 18th December 2012, 17:13   #141
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Default re: *Rumour* : Honda Civic to be pulled off from India

The amaze is a 1.6ltr engine with shorter stroke bringing it down to 1.5ltr . I'm pretty sure new civic with same engine in 1.6ltr guise and probably a VTT turbo to get 110-120bhp (and hence longer stroke to increase torque for a bigger car) is possible.
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Old 18th December 2012, 18:37   #142
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Default re: *Rumour* : Honda Civic to be pulled off from India

The present civic is being offered at a flat cash discount of 1.4 L here in Doon. Was actually a bit inclined to switch mine for the new one with the sunroof and better suspension.
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Old 18th December 2012, 18:49   #143
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Default re: *Rumour* : Honda Civic to be pulled off from India

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Originally Posted by coolkurt View Post
Reiterates the fact that the Civic is here to stay
Sorry to disagree here. The Civic figures getting a post in car magazine can not be corelated to its existence here in Indian market.

This particular news of Civic being pulled off is a rumor and has been cleared directly by Honda India's VP (thanks to you for that link )

Lets be clear;
Civic is a CKD, so it is not difficult for Honda to stop/continue the present model. IIRC, Honda donot have a dedicated plant for Civic alone, so plant floor utilization is never a problem, if they are not building Civic, they will use that space for couple of Brio's.

The only reason why the 9th gen didn't come to India is because of its unexpected failure elsewhere. Now, they had almost rectified this, so things can change.

Just like some companies take some internal hits to preserve their stock market image, Civic is an iconic symbol for Honda, they will leave it off its shelves, only if it is that imminent a bomb.

Honda's diesel mill getting into the Civic is not a distant proportion now, so things are bright even in that aspect.

IMO, its just a matter of time for Honda to take in the new Civic. At present, they might not be doing it, just because they are too busy with the Amaze and Brio.
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Old 18th December 2012, 18:50   #144
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Default re: *Rumour* : Honda Civic to be pulled off from India

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Originally Posted by Omtoatom View Post
I'm not so sure about that. Honda hasn't conclusively divulged their plans for the Civic in India. Now whether the latest Civic will get the state-of-the-art 1.6 i-DTEC engine from the European market, remains to be seen. It is a well-known secret that Honda feels it isnít a great fit for our conditions. Besides the new Civic that was launched last year isnít a huge improvement over the outgoing model.

Make no mistake though, I would only be delighted if they revived the Civic in India. I think it is a iconic car of sorts - not just for Honda but also for, in many ways, reshaping the D segment here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by absynthguzzler View Post
The amaze is a 1.6ltr engine with shorter stroke bringing it down to 1.5ltr . I'm pretty sure new civic with same engine in 1.6ltr guise and probably a VTT turbo to get 110-120bhp (and hence longer stroke to increase torque for a bigger car) is possible.
The Civic in India will not get the European 1.6 i-DTEC. That engine is designed to run on ultra-low sulfur diesel, which is not what you get in India and hence all its fancy emission tech such as particulate filters will come to naught.

The 1.5 Honda diesel is a stripped down version of the 1.6 with all the emissions tech removed to run on our diesel. The question is, will Honda make the 1.6 also in a stripped-down guise just for our market and 100cc more? I think not.

If one looks at the trend from other carmakers, one diesel engine is used from entry-level car all the way to a D-segment sedan. Hyundai plonked the same 1.6l diesel engine in the Elantra and the Verna. Renault has the same K9K engine in all its cars. This raises the question why Honda won't put the 1.5l Amaze diesel in the Civic, even if the same engine/power combination is used in the City? It will be on par with the Elantra and superior to its arch rival the Corolla.

I think that's the way Honda will go with the Civic in India. A modern, powerful 1.8l petrol and a frugal, but slightly anemic, diesel. Just like the Elantra, Corolla and Fluence.
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Old 18th December 2012, 19:20   #145
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Default re: *Rumour* : Honda Civic to be pulled off from India

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Originally Posted by StarScream View Post
The Civic in India will not get the European 1.6 i-DTEC. That engine is designed to run on ultra-low sulfur diesel, which is not what you get in India and hence all its fancy emission tech such as particulate filters will come to naught.

The 1.5 Honda diesel is a stripped down version of the 1.6 with all the emissions tech removed to run on our diesel. The question is, will Honda make the 1.6 also in a stripped-down guise just for our market and 100cc more? I think not.

If one looks at the trend from other carmakers, one diesel engine is used from entry-level car all the way to a D-segment sedan. Hyundai plonked the same 1.6l diesel engine in the Elantra and the Verna. Renault has the same K9K engine in all its cars. This raises the question why Honda won't put the 1.5l Amaze diesel in the Civic, even if the same engine/power combination is used in the City? It will be on par with the Elantra and superior to its arch rival the Corolla.

I think that's the way Honda will go with the Civic in India. A modern, powerful 1.8l petrol and a frugal, but slightly anemic, diesel. Just like the Elantra, Corolla and Fluence.
I love CIVIC! Period.

Although I am almost certain that my next car will be a D segment Euro sedan, I still appreciate the sporty and quality feel that one gets with the Civic.

Two points:

1. Honda doesn't really have a world beater type engine they had last time around. When the last gen Civic was launched, its petrol motor was simply outstanding. And until VAG came up with the TSI range of engines, it had remained segment best. That is no longer the case. Honda has carried forward the same engine into the next gen car. While it will stsill do a decent job, it is nowhere close to being the segment best now. Honda needs a turbo charged, direct injection 1.4-1.5 liter engine producing some 160-170 bhp to keep up the engine Honda pedigree. They don't have such an engine yet. So, I don't expect a segment best Honda engine in the new Civic anymore.

2. I think Honda will make a necessary changes required to the 1.6 i-DTEC engine and launch it in India. The Civic, unlike, Brio and Amaze, is a relatively premium product in India. Thus, people will not accept a souped up 1.5 liter, even though it may be a derivative of the same famed 1.6 i-DTEC. One thing we have to hand over to Honda is bringing latest tech to Indian market and I expect that trend to continue. They are in no hurry to launch the car anyway.

Last edited by Abhi_Automobile : 18th December 2012 at 19:23.
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Old 18th December 2012, 20:09   #146
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Default re: *Rumour* : Honda Civic to be pulled off from India

I saw a Grey S ready for delivery at Pushp Honda about 10 days ago.
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Old 18th December 2012, 20:27   #147
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Default re: *Rumour* : Honda Civic to be pulled off from India

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Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile View Post
I love CIVIC! Period.

Although I am almost certain that my next car will be a D segment Euro sedan, I still appreciate the sporty and quality feel that one gets with the Civic.

Two points:

1. Honda doesn't really have a world beater type engine they had last time around. When the last gen Civic was launched, its petrol motor was simply outstanding. And until VAG came up with the TSI range of engines, it had remained segment best. That is no longer the case. Honda has carried forward the same engine into the next gen car. While it will stsill do a decent job, it is nowhere close to being the segment best now. Honda needs a turbo charged, direct injection 1.4-1.5 liter engine producing some 160-170 bhp to keep up the engine Honda pedigree. They don't have such an engine yet. So, I don't expect a segment best Honda engine in the new Civic anymore.

2. I think Honda will make a necessary changes required to the 1.6 i-DTEC engine and launch it in India. The Civic, unlike, Brio and Amaze, is a relatively premium product in India. Thus, people will not accept a souped up 1.5 liter, even though it may be a derivative of the same famed 1.6 i-DTEC. One thing we have to hand over to Honda is bringing latest tech to Indian market and I expect that trend to continue. They are in no hurry to launch the car anyway.
Point 1 - It is true that Honda fell behind in petrol-engine technology and were slow to adopt direct injection and turbo charging but that is changing:
http://world.honda.com/news/2011/411...ogy/index.html
The Civic will get the 1.8 with direct injection, VTEC and turbo. The City gets the 1.5 with VTEC and direct injection. Its just that the Civic redesign came due before the engine announcement, that's why it got the old engine.

Point 2 - I disagree. If Indian buyers can accept the Elantra, Fluence and Corolla diesels, I see no reason why Honda won't employ the same trick. The economics of tweaking the 1.6 DTEC for India won't be viable. With the 1.5 diesel in top tune in the Civic they will be on par with the Elantra's performance and ahead of the Fluence and Corolla. Time will tell.
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Old 19th December 2012, 14:18   #148
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Default re: *Rumour* : Honda Civic to be pulled off from India

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Originally Posted by StarScream View Post
Point 1 - It is true that Honda fell behind in petrol-engine technology and were slow to adopt direct injection and turbo charging but that is changing:
http://world.honda.com/news/2011/411...ogy/index.html
The Civic will get the 1.8 with direct injection, VTEC and turbo. The City gets the 1.5 with VTEC and direct injection. Its just that the Civic redesign came due before the engine announcement, that's why it got the old engine.

Point 2 - I disagree. If Indian buyers can accept the Elantra, Fluence and Corolla diesels, I see no reason why Honda won't employ the same trick. The economics of tweaking the 1.6 DTEC for India won't be viable. With the 1.5 diesel in top tune in the Civic they will be on par with the Elantra's performance and ahead of the Fluence and Corolla. Time will tell.
Let me rephrase my second point:

I hope my second point gets looked into and we indeed get the 1.6 iDTEC engine. It has won rave reviews. With the Jetta already in and new Octavia lined up for 2013 launch, I do not expect the Honda to have class leading interiors, even after the upgrade. Thus, its important we at least get the best of engines Honda has.

PS : I didn't see the turbocharging thing mentioned in the gasoline engine tech anywhere. It appears that Honda believes that only direct injection is enough for now. BTW, turbo-ing an engine is a much easier exercise!

Last edited by Abhi_Automobile : 19th December 2012 at 14:24.
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Old 19th December 2012, 20:08   #149
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Default re: *Rumour* : Honda Civic to be pulled off from India

There is no need to write an obituary. The current civic is going to linger. Honda will continue selling it in its current till they refresh it. Petrolheads, now or never
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Old 19th December 2012, 21:07   #150
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Default re: *Rumour* : Honda Civic to be pulled off from India

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Originally Posted by Abhi_Automobile View Post
Let me rephrase my second point:

I hope my second point gets looked into and we indeed get the 1.6 iDTEC engine. It has won rave reviews. With the Jetta already in and new Octavia lined up for 2013 launch, I do not expect the Honda to have class leading interiors, even after the upgrade. Thus, its important we at least get the best of engines Honda has.

PS : I didn't see the turbocharging thing mentioned in the gasoline engine tech anywhere. It appears that Honda believes that only direct injection is enough for now. BTW, turbo-ing an engine is a much easier exercise!
The new Civic is out in the US and the rest of the world. The 1.8 has soldiered on with minor tweaks and there is no turbo charger. In fact the high power Civic Si also uses a naturally aspirated 2.4l engine. In fact, Honda pulled the plug on a turbo engine in their Acura RDX SUV and replaced it with a NA 3.5 V6 engine.
Honda is not too confident or hum ho about selling turbo engines, as I perceive.
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