*Rumour* : Honda Civic to be pulled off from India

[avira_tk]

Honda is quite late in pulling the plug on this model, good as it was, its been seven years and the facelift hasn't done anything for sales. The fact is that petrol C2 sedans are on life support, this one with fog lamps as luxury items should have been canned long time ago.

The 2012 Civic is a bore, it makes Toyotas look exciting. Honda should save the Civic name for a new model that can go head on with the Jetta/Laura. Diesel engines, fog lamps, the works, if that doesn't happen then Honda will be another bit player.

[R2D2]

Ok, here are my thought Suhaas.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

- The new Civic hasn't gained popularity with many and wasn't well received. Also, the current engine option isn't enough for the market. Perhaps they decided to skip this one and introduce the next - one that will have a wider range of engines?.

Yes I do hope so! I really hope they introduce a Civic, even if they skip the 9G Civic, some day but the total lack of insight into what their plans are is baffling to me. It is their intentions that are not clear - Why is a large well known Japanese car mfr pulling the plug on a well respected and accepted D1 segment sedan. Low sales is not the reason - there are many cars that got by with low sales but the mfr stuck on - e.g. Fiat, and Hyundai with their Elantra and Sonata. A neighbour who purchased the PAL Peugeot 309 was most let down when they pulled out..as did another who bought the Mahindra Ford Escort.


I put myself in that position because I nearly bought a Civic in 2008 after selling off my 9G Corolla..and instead plonked for an Altis. So do I say 'Phew!'?

Originally Posted by suhaas307

- Current Civic owners don't need to cry to the heavens. Sure, it's disappointing to see that the car you have will no longer be made, for however long the period. Spare parts and regular service will be available for a long time..

If I were a Civic owner I wouldn't be worried about spares especially the consumables - the car is reliable like any other Jap sedan. What is of concern to me is the the resale price. Petrol cars have low resales prices and a discontinued model even lower. Of course for those owners who aren't bothered about the resale price it is a different matter. But I think it's human nature to be worried about this kind of an event.

Then there's the impact of what this will do to the other cars in Honda's line like the Accord or CRV, and to the competition. Toyota, Skoda and others may be emboldened only because the Civic is discontinued. This is pure hypothesis here.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Rest assured, the Indian auto-market cannot be ignored. It's a huge business now and everyone wants some of it. Just look at the number of new launches and new brands entering our market in the last 5 years. New segments have been created. Assembly Lines are being built and some cars are even being exported!.

Indian auto market is big Suhaas..but when one of the most preeminent Jap car mfrs discontinues a well accepted car without a replacement model OR a future plan to introduce one, it leaves one wondering. I have found Honda Siel to be a fickle company.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

It may not be completely accurate, but do you remember the used City Vtec prices after the model was discontinued? It soared and some were going for base-price Swifts, even those that had done in excess of 70k on the odo..

I owned a City Type II (that's why I call myself an ex-Honda car owner) and it had a good resale value. But when I sold it the NHC was introduced and it was quite natural (to the buyer) that I wanted to sell it off in the assumption I wanted to buy the New City or upgrade to a D1 segment Corolla. In my case it was the latter.

Had I been selling a discontinued model line, say if had the City range been pulled off the market like the Civic is today, it would had a large negative impact on the resale price. Buyers of 2nd hand cars need the smallest excuse to beat you down. It is even worse today especially for petrol engined cars.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

People who want Civics will want to get it now, because it's a car you will cherish.

I doubt it Suhaas. Very few will opt to plonk down 15-17L on a car that will be discontinued. Not exactly pocket change and IMO a bit too much money to spend on a discontinued model.

If I were in the market for a Civic, my wife would have none of it. I'd look at alternatives from Chevy, Toyota, VW/Skoda or Renault.

OTOH there may be a few pre-worshipped examples I may consider for the value they bring.

[wilful]

Originally Posted by R2D2

+1 If I had a Civic I'd be really uncomfortable. Unusual for a manufacturer to discontinue a well appreciated car model without introducing a successor OR giving any indication if it will be reintroduced after a while.

Unusual yes - but it has happened here in the not too distant past - Hyundai Elantra.

Considering our country's fuel pricing policy, I really wonder if there is any scope (in the long run) at all even for the "petrol" Honda City (or for that matter any C2 segment petrol sedans). I think one more large petrol hike will be the final straw for petrol sedans altogether.
I wish the petrol vs diesel figures were also available model-wise in the monthly car sales figures. They would make stark reading.

[nik_kapur]

Being a Honda Civic owner and user for almost 6 years now. Im really disappointed to hear about the car being withdrawn from the market. Resale of the car is going to rock bottom now. Even if parts are available, used car buyers will think twice as its a mental thing here in India (fueled by used car dealers).
Honda says the D segment has shrunk, but i disagree and i believe the Elantra launch will bring in good numbers. Its all about diesel.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by wilful

Unusual yes - but it has happened here in the not too distant past - Hyundai Elantra..

I don't think that's a fair comparison as the Elantra was a non-starter from the day it was introduced in 2004. While the Civic set the charts on fire starting from its launch in 2006 till around 2008.

I could have said it is a product lifecycle based reduction in sales levels, but in the Civic's case it is more than that - price and constant price increases, accessories/features not at par with the competition, lack of a diesel, so-so after sales service and a general 'take it or leave it' attitude by Honda.

However taking your example - The Elantra has now been refreshed and the new model looks good! If Honda had just given SOME hope of a refreshed Civic even if a year from now I'd have been happy.

Originally Posted by wilful

Considering our country's fuel pricing policy, I really wonder if there is any scope (in the long run) at all even for the "petrol" Honda City (or for that matter any C2 segment petrol sedans)

It's only a matter of time before all manufacturers offer diesel engine options - or they will fail. Petrol will be around for enthusiastic petrol heads and those whose cars don't do much mileage with resultant lower cost of operations. But diesel engined cars will come at a steep premium partly because of mfrs hiking prices and partly due to Govt. taxation policies as diesel is a subsidised fuel. As always the Govt shoots itself in the foot with high subsidies.

[CARDEEP]

I believe this is a step back by Honda to gain 2-steps advantage when they launch the earth dreams diesel (1.6L advanced diesel) .

Moreover, this can help them concentrate more on City upgrade as it will be due in a couple of years & is a good seller.

[GTO]

Umm guys, this has nothing to do with the Civic's India sales. Even if it was selling 300 a month, the (current) 8th gen Civic would be pulled off the market. Reason : NO SUPPLIES! The 8th gen Civic's production has reached the end of the road worldwide.

Logically, Honda would have launched the 9th generation here as a replacement. But Honda India knows the 9th generation Civic won't do anything for the company's fortunes. It's too boring, and doesn't appear to be much different than the 8th gen. Plus, launching a petrol-only new model in a diesel obsessed market makes little sense.

Of course, there isn't a doubt that the 8th gen Civic made for a poor value proposition. It's price kept going higher and higher, while the basic equipment levels were bettered by 1/2 price hatchbacks.

But again, the sales performance isn't the reason for Honda pulling the plug. Remember, there are cars still on sale that sell a lot less than 138 units in a month. Honda India is simply going to run out of kits soon.

[Mpower]

Still confused by Honda's decision. Yes they don't have diesel but whats new? They never did.

All their cars right from Brio to Accord are still petrols so why just pull the 9th gen Civic? Besides they make some of the silkiest petrol engines and the customers are well aware of that.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by issigonis

Honda maybe looking at a 3-5 year time frame to re-establish itself with a broad range of models right from the B1/B2 to the D1/D2 segments, tailored for the Indian market, which has characteristics all its own.

by which time our powers that be should have been forced to take a decision on diesel price deregulation due to pressures on the economy. No that was in 2010. Oh wait. Forget it

Originally Posted by R2D2

It's only a matter of time before all manufacturers offer diesel engine options - or they will fail. Petrol will be around for enthusiastic petrol heads and those whose cars don't do much mileage with resultant lower cost of operations. But diesel engined cars will come at a steep premium partly because of mfrs hiking prices and partly due to Govt. taxation policies as diesel is a subsidised fuel. As always the Govt shoots itself in the foot with high subsidies.

Upside (in a buyers market only!) is we get great used petrol car deals. It looks like our next generation will see pics of petrol pumps and ask us what this was? A bit similar to what we asked our grandparents about the 'anna' system.
Edit: In terms of coins. Not the tennisplayer turned model nor the social crusader!

[shashank.nk]

Its sad to read that the Civic is being pulled off. When it was launched, it was probably the best selling D1 segment car for quite sometime, this with a petrol engine ! If other cars did better, it was because they came with a diesel heart.

The positive side to this is, us enthusiasts will get good deals on used civics, the resale was already low thanks to the petrol engine, add 'no longer in production' tag to that, we can see the prices plummet further.

Too bad for the owners, but good for us enthusiasts considering a petrol !

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by GTO

But again, the sales performance isn't the reason for Honda pulling the plug. Remember, there are cars still on sale that sell a lot less than 138 units in a month. Honda India is simply going to run out of kits soon.

You have a point there about the kits GTO.

But to keep customer interest in the Civic alive, I feel that Honda should make a 'forward looking' announcement about the next gen Civic, (not 2012, maybe the redesigned '12 or even a '13) soon after the 8G stocks are depleted.

A 'Mums-the-word' approach simply sends the wrong signals to customers, both current and prospective. At this time I seriously wonder what these guys are up to.

Originally Posted by Mpower

Still confused by Honda's decision. Yes they don't have diesel but whats new? They never did. All their cars right from Brio to Accord are still petrols so why just pull the 9th gen Civic?

Agreed.

Lack of a diesel has never stopped Honda before. IIRC the price of a litre of petrol has always fluctuated between 1.3x to 1.8x that of diesel in the past decade. When I bought my current car in 2008 petrol was about 60/litre. People just get used to higher fuel prices and adjust their budgets or reduce car usage or look at alternative modes of transport. When my organisation shifted to the outskirts of Pune, I started using the company bus for 3 days out of 5. Works out cheaper. It's not just the cost of fuel that I saved but avoided a not so pleasant drive through rush hour traffic in my car. I was less stressed when I arrived at the office.

[PranavDesai]

This sounds both, sad and strange. I took delivery of my Brio S(O) on April 24. Before that I obviously visited the dealer, Landmark Honda, multiple times for test drive, booking, accessories, and sometimes just for fun to look at City and Civic. During my visits I interacted with my SA as well as his colleague about upcoming Honda launches and both pretty confidently told me that Honda is going to launch a diesel car by this year end or early 2013. My SA told me it is the new Civic whereas the other guy said it was the CRV, but both agreed on the point that diesel or not a new Civic is coming, and now we have the Autocar scoop. I feel sad for Civic, a good car let down by petrol prices. The driver's seat and the dashboard design still come to my mind whenever I just see a Civic pass by. The Autocar story says Honda does not believe its 1.6 diesel to be compatible with "Indian conditions." Either Honda has lost confidence in its engineering skills or they don't consider us worthy of it, and then its just plain arrogance/stupidity for not launching a diesel when all companies are going that way.

[vb-san]

I am not really surprised with this decision. As GTO mentioned, if the production has stopped worldwide, there is no point in pushing along with a old model. For me it's better to stop on a good note rather than making the Civic run along as a aged warhorse, and sell at a discounted price (like how GM was doing with the Optra).

Now that the 9th generation is doing pretty average worldwide, I hope Honda will make necessary amendments and bring the 10th generation to India (similar to what Hyundai did with the Elantra).

[Mpower]

@vb-san, what the Autocar article is saying is that the model 'Civic' is being pulled from India. Honda usually does not sell old and new side by side like Ford is doing with the Fiesta.

To put things in perspective, Suzuki with zero expertise in diesels proactively went out and acquired the fantastic 1.3 MJD for its cars. On the other hand, Honda has an inhouse engine for its Euro Civic but is unable to drag and drop it into the sedan model. Sad!

[vb-san]

Originally Posted by Mpower

@vb-san, what the Autocar article is saying is that the model 'Civic' is being pulled from India. Honda usually does not sell old and new side by side like Ford is doing with the Fiesta.

Yes, I got that bit. What I mean is, even if it's not sold side by side with a newer version, everyone kind of know that this indeed is kind of an old model. And if they don't have plans (or rather lack of courage/confidence) bring in the 9th gen to India, why to lug around with a old model? That will dilute the brand Civic in our market.

Originally Posted by Mpower

To put things in perspective, Suzuki with zero expertise in diesels proactively went out and acquired the fantastic 1.3 MJD for its cars. On the other hand, Honda has an inhouse engine for its Euro Civic but is unable to drag and drop it into the sedan model. Sad!

Yes, they actually should have launched the 9th gen Civic with the 1.6 i-DTEC. The 118bhp engine may not set the segment on fire, but being a Honda, it would have gathered a decent response from the car buying public.