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Old 6th August 2012, 20:08   #46
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Default re: *Rumour* : Volkswagen Discontinues 1.6 MPI Petrol Polo- Update: now confirmed!

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Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
So bring in a FTD diesel hatch! Give us a 1.6 MJD Punto/ Swift or 1.6 Tdi Polo and I 'm sure they'll sell. With over crowded cities and lack of parking spaces, I am sure the self driven urban male will lap up a hot hatch even if he can get a 'boring' sedan for the same price. I see a trend in cities like Bangalore where people have two cars at home. An SUV + hatch or a Sedan + hatch. The big car does outstation duty , while the small car does city duty.

THe hot hatch will never see volumes like the 1.2s, and it would be foolish for anybody to expect that. But it can do wonders to the brand on the whole. Look what the Swift did to Maruti for example. I still remember how ACI first described it : "A Maruti that's fun to drive"
Your correct leave the swift just look what the Palio 1.6 has done to the Fiat brand it is still being discussed in this forum. I think the Polo 1.6TDI will sell respectable numbers. They must just offer it in the Highline trim as they did with the 1.6MPI.

A polo 1.6TDI with just the basic creature comforts plus ABS, Airbags and Alloys and a decent price will find many takers. No audio or bluetooth, no parking sensors etc.
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Old 6th August 2012, 20:42   #47
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Originally Posted by vikramv007
Latest update is both the Vento and Polo are receiving minor facelifts and a price revision next month. Its likely only two variants of the Vento Diesel will continue and safely expect both to have all the safety equipment and much more comfort creatures than the current car. The plant i guess has already started producing the facelifted version
Vikram, price revision UP or DOWN? Polos are not selling well anyway, a price increase would put sales at further risk!
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Old 6th August 2012, 23:06   #48
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Default re: *Rumour* : Volkswagen Discontinues 1.6 MPI Petrol Polo- Update: now confirmed!

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Originally Posted by v.anand View Post

However name me one car under Rs. 8 lakhs space that is more fun than Polo 1.6 (assuming you have driven all available). Not Jazz, Swift, Micra, Figo, even Punto comes close to the overall package of Polo 1.6. The point is this engine is not a dud, considering the the competition. Its got a fine balance between efficiency and power. Refinement could have been slightly better and thats where the age shows. Among mid hatches, other than Punto 90HP steering, Polo 1.6 is a better overall package than all whereas same can't be said of Polo 1.2 Highline.
one satisfying car < 8L? I'll name two, but they are slightly above 8L, very slightly - Swift D and Punto 90HP, both being diesels (not sure if you were referring to only petrol hatches). In spite of being diesels, both of these are way more fun to drive than a dull, boring Polo 1.6. Not sure what is the 'overall package' you are referring to. Steering feedback is not the only thing. I believe even in the handling department, Polo is no match for either the Swift or the Punto. The dynamics are also strictly average. It is not a corner carver. VW's service and maintenance is not exactly better than Maruti too. Features-wise, there are other hatches which offer more equipment levels, eg. i20 Asta can put even C segment sedans to shame. To be quite frank, neither did the Polo 1.6 have a stonker of an engine like the Palio 1.6 GTX, nor was it having the brand and service network backing of a Swift. As far as FTD factor is concerned, don't get me wrong here, but even the Brio V MT felt way more punchy to drive in the city than the Polo 1.6. It (polo 1.6) was just a well balanced car without the clatter of the 3-pot motor. By no means was it a 'hot hatch' in terms of sheer performance. My 2 cents.

2 things prevent such vehicles from setting sales charts on fire.

- It is hard to change the Indian buyer's mentality once the polarization has happened towards diesel. Thanks to the media's extensive coverage whenever there is a fuel price hike, people have now been trained to aspire to diesel cars to save running costs. Petrol cars are a no-no. In this situation, a hatchback with a 1.6L engine would only raise eyebrows, not sales charts now.

- Many people find it hard to digest that a hatchback costs upwards of 8.5L for the top end, high power variant. The aam aadmi would rather buy a plain jane Dzire VDi for 8L than a Polo 1.6 petrol. Can we blame them? This 'big is better' attitude will not change soon. What might change their minds is the presence of diesel engines in hot hatches.

On a curious note, how much does it cost them to plonk the Vento's 1.6TDI engine into the Polo? Just a cut paste job since they already use this engine in the Vento and Rapid. That Polo 1.6TDI would be a hoot to drive. Wish they bring in something like that. My stand - the market for hot hatches is not dead. The market for petrol guzzlers is. Bring in a Polo 1.6 TDI, or a Swift 'Sport' with the 93PS Multijet engine with VGT. I am sure these will sell like hotcakes.

P.S - what's next on the hitlist? Skoda Fabia 1.6 MPI?

Last edited by KarthikK : 6th August 2012 at 23:21.
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Old 6th August 2012, 23:42   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarthikK

On a curious note, how much does it cost them to plonk the Vento's 1.6TDI engine into the Polo? Just a cut paste job since they already use this engine in the Vento and Rapid. That Polo 1.6TDI would be a hoot to drive.
One thing I can think of is excise benefits to be foregone. AFAIK, for hatchbacks the diesel engines should be less than 1500cc to be eligible for excise benefits.

I'm also all for Polo with a 4 cyl engine and 90ps on tap,I'll be the first one to exchange !
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Old 7th August 2012, 00:17   #50
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@Karthikk, I only like to say you dont know this car well enough, with all due respects.

You seem to question every virtue of Polo and I request you to kindly take it for another drive to ascertain its superiority in ride and handling, efficiency and quality. Only place competition (other than Hyundai, of course) holds perceptible advantage is the steering.

I come from Palio GTX and also drive Brio V MT which is compared with this car here. Just can't accept Brio is better in city, the difference is really huge performance wise and not so huge when it comes to efficiency. Polo not only revvs freely, it packs a lot of punch in the mid range bettered only by the City IVTEC in both these departments. The gearing is different here though where most city drive is manageable through third but second is too short.

What I meant by overall practicality is its big boot, passenger comfort, ergonomics, light controls, good ground clearance, efficiency, quality of parts in and out, all of which competition lacks in some way or the other. Performance too is at a very favorable position.

I did drive Punto 90 hp and swift, only diesels better than this 1.6 is other 1.6s. Its got a 0 to 100 time of 11.1, remember!
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Old 7th August 2012, 00:48   #51
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Default re: *Rumour* : Volkswagen Discontinues 1.6 MPI Petrol Polo- Update: now confirmed!

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Originally Posted by ethanhunt123 View Post
Even people buying a 30L car want to buy a diesel !
True

How I wish the de-regulation would come into effect asap. What's happening now is not a good sign at all for such a dynamic automobile market as India's. Although new-gen diesels are way more efficient than petrols, haven't we always associated performance automotives to petrol? As they say, change is inevitable and change sure has struck with a bang.

Imagine the day when F1 cars switch to diesel.. The day is not toooo far.

Also, here's an old link that I found. Let's face it. There is no 'hot' hatch in India at the moment. The question at hand is who is 'warmer' than the other? Though the car specs is one thing, true performance can be measured in a test. This article here is after one of India's best drivers - Karun Chandhok - tested them on the track. Read on - http://overdrive.in/details/225/The-...akh-track-test

Last edited by mempheS.D : 7th August 2012 at 01:03.
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Old 7th August 2012, 01:01   #52
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Default re: *Rumour* : Volkswagen Discontinues 1.6 MPI Petrol Polo- Update: now confirmed!

Just remembered reading about Polo 1.6 and Fabia 1.6 related news on other sites earlier, they had mentioned that this particular variant is a CKD. In this case it is more likely to be the result of manufacturing being ceased than being of poor sales. Otherwise, if the engine is being produced for Vento and Rapid, then it is not hard to continue with the car.
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Old 7th August 2012, 01:35   #53
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Default re: *Rumour* : Volkswagen Discontinues 1.6 MPI Petrol Polo- Update: now confirmed!

The enthusiast in me is thoroughly disappointed with this news, though the 'practical me' didn't blink an eye!

Not only was the low demand a problem, its also the dealers pushing diesels!. Here's what happened with me:

We were in a VW showroom and had asked for a TD of Poli diesel,SA says diesel isn't available. Dad and I had already done TD of the Polo diesel a day ago, this was only to show the car to my sis and mom. I ask if the 1.6 is available and he says yes, we gladly opt for it as my sis and mom hardly care about driving experience et al.

We take a 4km TD and what a car it was! Mid range was superb to say the least, the Swift 1.2 i'd TD'd was nowhere close to this engine in terms of power delivery! We (Dad and Me) were so impressed we decided to reconsider our decision and asked the SA on his opinion.

Me: I'm thinking of going for the Polo 1.6 over the diesel highline.
He: Sir, not a good idea. The 1.6 is a guzzler a you don't need so much power in city!
Me: The mid-range is superb! The diesel is very dull in comparison, and this has 105bhp!
Him: Its a waste sir, you'll get max 9kmpl in city and you can't go very fast in city, resale will also be very low.I say get diesel because its nearly the same price and get almost 15kmpl, plus better resale.

Though he made complete economic sense,i was surprised by him suggesting not to go for the 1.6 and go for the diesel instead when petrols hardly sell!

VW was never interested in selling the Polo 1.6 I guess.

Last edited by shashank.nk : 7th August 2012 at 01:36.
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Old 7th August 2012, 05:28   #54
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Default re: *Rumour* : Volkswagen Discontinues 1.6 MPI Petrol Polo- Update: now confirmed!

I think it is a shame that our market looses the only decently powered ( it is not powerful by any means, it is just that other cars are underpowered) hatch that existed. Guess it would take few more years for our market to mature and understand things like, a four cylinder 1.6 L petrol engine in a little hatch is never going to pinch them as hard as they imagine. If driven sensibly, it would yield as much, if not better fuel efficiency than a 1.2. Further it provides a stress free drive in the highways, a better drive in the hills, especially when fully loaded and most importantly that smile on your face, when you red line a petrol engine, priceless.

No diesel would ever match a petrol car when it comes to precise throttle response and smoothness, and NA engines would be more intuitive to drive than a turbo diesel, any day. With lot of people willing to upgrade a car in 3 or 4 years these days, the loss they incur while upgrading is always going to be higher than the amount they save by driving a diesel and that being the case, why are they sacrificing the very essence of driving pleasure? The market seems to be in a transition state with the fuel prices soaring and once there is some stability, people buying cars would realize that if a fellow biker can afford petrol, why can't they?. Another strange trend is that, only the car market tends to tilt in favor of the diesel while in the two wheeler market, I see more bikes with bigger cubic capacities being introduced and the 150cc s (which were considered performance bikes a few years back) have now become more like commuters.

I have no experience with the polo, but a few drives on a Jetta and I think most people who complain that the polo is not exciting as the swift must realize that the VWs generally mask the speed sensation much better than any Japanese car. It is a little price you pay for a solid car and sure footed handling.

If you still have doubts on the polo's performance, I am quoting a fellow bhpian's comments in his S-class report. (thanks to androdev)

Quote:
Originally Posted by androdev View Post

Being a V6 petrol, the engine is super smooth and pulls effortlessly. On an unrelated note, I was surprised by many VW Polos that were driven quite aggressively during my highway runs. One Polo driver was particularly painful and he weaved through dangerously to overtake me in a tight situation forcing me to brake for his safety and give way to him (you know the type). When we got an empty patch, I tail-gated him at a safe distance forcing him to maintain the lead and he was able to sustain 180kmph for decent amount of time. I was impressed with Polo (not the driver though).
I really think the government should change its stupid rule on the size of the petrol engines and find some sensible ways to keep the petrol price in par with diesel. The diesels also emit more pollutants and it is certainly not a good trend to have everyone run on diesels. Finally, the unrefined, under-powered 3 cylinder petrol and diesels should have been pulled off, not the 1.6
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Old 7th August 2012, 07:52   #55
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Default re: *Rumour* : Volkswagen Discontinues 1.6 MPI Petrol Polo- Update: now confirmed!

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Originally Posted by v.anand View Post
@Karthikk, I only like to say you dont know this car well enough, with all due respects.

You seem to question every virtue of Polo and I request you to kindly take it for another drive to ascertain its superiority in ride and handling, efficiency and quality. Only place competition (other than Hyundai, of course) holds perceptible advantage is the steering.
Sir, I am not saying the Polo 1.6 is a bad car. It is well rounded package with decent performance figures and complementing FE figures to boot. In fact, it was the one of the two best options along with Fabia 1.6 in the petrol 'hot hatch' segment. I am also a fan of the Polo 1.6, so I am not supportive of this move by VW, because it gives one less option for us petrolheads.

All I am saying is that it was not the performance benchmark for hot hatches. I have driven this car quite a bit on ghat sections. It is a good handler and feels quite planted, but not in the league of the Punto, Palio GTX or the Fiesta 1.6S which you can throw around corners. The in-gear acceleration figures are good, but the feel of the 1.6 polo is more sedate. It is not mind-blowing and in-your-face like the original GTX. We are all entitled to our opinions based on our experiences of this car, and I completely respect yours

Quote:
I come from Palio GTX and also drive Brio V MT which is compared with this car here. Just can't accept Brio is better in city, the difference is really huge performance wise and not so huge when it comes to efficiency. Polo not only revvs freely, it packs a lot of punch in the mid range bettered only by the City IVTEC in both these departments. The gearing is different here though where most city drive is manageable through third but second is too short.
I am yet to drive a hatchback as adrenaline-rushing as the Palio 1.6 GTX. The Polo 1.6 is good, but isn't a performance scorcher. That was my point. I just mentioned the Brio to show how much of a difference the power-to-weight ratio can make in the city. The gearing also was one aspect as you mentioned.

Quote:
What I meant by overall practicality is its big boot, passenger comfort, ergonomics, light controls, good ground clearance, efficiency, quality of parts in and out, all of which competition lacks in some way or the other. Performance too is at a very favorable position.

I did drive Punto 90 hp and swift, only diesels better than this 1.6 is other 1.6s. Its got a 0 to 100 time of 11.1, remember!
I was talking from an enthusiast's point of view, because that's what this car was propositioned to be. Why would I, as an enthusiast care about boot space, passenger comfort, light controls, good ground clearance and fuel efficiency? These constitute practicality, not performance. All these things that you mentioned are available in the 1.2 Polo Highline as well, sans the performance. It is only the performance difference I would be concerned about, if I were a potential 1.6 customer willing to pay an extra lac more over the 1.2. By performance, I don't just mean bhp figures (72bhp v/s 105bhp). It has to be an enthusiast vehicle in every sense.

Of course, the diesels can't be as free-revving as the Polo 1.6 and can't challenge these 0-100 figures. I only mentioned them as other cars available less than or at 8L and are fun to drive, which you asked in your previous post . A Polo with the wonderful 1.6 TDI engine would be a blast to drive, at the same time it would be a diesel so would not suffer from the 'costly fuel' image. That would make it a better proposition in the current market.

P.S - VW never advertised the 1.6 petrol, right? Shashank.nk's post was interesting about the staff not trying to push customers for a 1.6 purchase. I doubt if people (non enthusiast buyers) will even notice this model going, hardly anyone knew about its presence anyway.

Last edited by KarthikK : 7th August 2012 at 08:08.
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Old 7th August 2012, 09:21   #56
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Don't quite know of this is relevant, but on my way to work this morning i caught up on a plain jane TC Polo with TDI badging. Nothing out of the ordinary, however, take a look at the alloys, they definitely aren't stock. Wondering if this has the more powerful diesel everyone is talking here
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Old 7th August 2012, 11:00   #57
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Originally Posted by methecupid
Don't quite know of this is relevant, but on my way to work this morning i caught up on a plain jane TC Polo with TDI badging. Nothing out of the ordinary, however, take a look at the alloys, they definitely aren't stock. Wondering if this has the more powerful diesel everyone is talking here
Those wheels are massive! 16" or 17"? can't really make out.
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Old 7th August 2012, 11:43   #58
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Default re: *Rumour* : Volkswagen Discontinues 1.6 MPI Petrol Polo- Update: now confirmed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
On a curious note, how much does it cost them to plonk the Vento's 1.6TDI engine into the Polo? Just a cut paste job since they already use this engine in the Vento and Rapid. That Polo 1.6TDI would be a hoot to drive. Wish they bring in something like that. My stand - the market for hot hatches is not dead. The market for petrol guzzlers is. Bring in a Polo 1.6 TDI, or a Swift 'Sport' with the 93PS Multijet engine with VGT. I am sure these will sell like hotcakes.

P.S - what's next on the hitlist? Skoda Fabia 1.6 MPI?
I had the same question. What happens to the 1.6 MPI Fabia now? It is sad that VW pulled the plug on the 1.6 Polo. It was easily the most potent Polo amongst the 3 engine options on offer (FE factor excluded). The 1.2 petrol and 1.2 TDi are seriously the cars that deserve the axe for the 3 cylinder dated engines. Ironically, the Indian market prefers these 2 variants to the 1.6.

1.6 TDi in a Polo would set the hatch market on fire. There is a separate thread on this too. For all practical reasons, VW is likely to detune this engine to just under 1500 cc and plonk it in the Polo if at all such plans exist. Theoretically, it should be an easy job when you already have the same engine in the Vento.

Swift Sport per se is sold as a petrol car in Int'l markets. So I don't see that badging even if the VGT engine makes it to the Swift. Maruti have never been aggressive with what they could have offered in the Swift in terms of features (no bluetooth, no 60:40 split, etc); so a VGT engine making it to the Swift might never happen.

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Originally Posted by shashank.nk View Post
One thing I can think of is excise benefits to be foregone. AFAIK, for hatchbacks the diesel engines should be less than 1500cc to be eligible for excise benefits.

I'm also all for Polo with a 4 cyl engine and 90ps on tap,I'll be the first one to exchange !
Absolutely. Only concern would be the pricing. The 1.2 TDI HL costs well over 8.5L if I am not wrong. And that too with a sparse equipment list.

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Originally Posted by methecupid View Post
Don't quite know of this is relevant, but on my way to work this morning i caught up on a plain jane TC Polo with TDI badging. Nothing out of the ordinary, however, take a look at the alloys, they definitely aren't stock. Wondering if this has the more powerful diesel everyone is talking here
Lets hope its the 1.5L TDi that you saw. Even a 1.2 TSi would be welcome to replace the outgoing 1.6.
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Old 7th August 2012, 12:06   #59
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Default re: *Rumour* : Volkswagen Discontinues 1.6 MPI Petrol Polo- Update: now confirmed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by methecupid View Post
Don't quite know of this is relevant, but on my way to work this morning i caught up on a plain jane TC Polo with TDI badging. Nothing out of the ordinary, however, take a look at the alloys, they definitely aren't stock. Wondering if this has the more powerful diesel everyone is talking here
From a pessimistic view, I would be inclined to believe this is the 1.2 TDi with after market alloys . Unless the alloys were VW-badged and the car had camouflaging covers, I would think this one is just another polo 1.2 TDI with the owner changing to aftermarket alloys on delivery day (hence the TC plate).

Another doubt - don't the tyres also look a little bigger than the ones on the current highline?
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Old 7th August 2012, 12:15   #60
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Originally Posted by fuel_addict
1.6 TDi in a Polo would set the hatch market on fire. There is a separate thread on this too. For all practical reasons, VW is likely to detune this engine to just under 1500 cc and plonk it in the Polo if at all such plans exist. Theoretically, it should be an easy job when you already have the same engine in the Vento.
Errrr..l how do you "detune" the engine to 1500cc ? You mean change the engine geometry by keeping the same block and reboring it to 1500cc ? That would entail quite a lot of investment. Considering the Polo 1.2TDi is already touching 8.5L, a 1.5 or 1.6 TDi will cross 10L. Who would buy it then ?
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