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Old 20th August 2012, 16:25   #91
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Default Re: 7 Simple Guidelines if you're buying a European car

I would say that the Ford vehicles are the combo of the best of 2 worlds - European Build & quality that comes close to the Japanese.

We have had the Ford Fusion for 5 years now. We had to replace the water pump last year ( my driver had forgotten to check coolant levels & had driven it with the expansion tank empty!!). We had to replace the clutch @ 48000 kms - possibly theresult of 2 drivers over the years. It has done over 50K & is a total hoot to drive on highways & ghats.
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Old 26th August 2012, 21:31   #92
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Default Re: 7 Simple Guidelines if you're buying a European car

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Hi arunrajk81
First of all congrats for the Duster you have booked!. I guess you would have done some research before deciding on a brand and model and booking it. Let me share some thoughts with you as I too have booked a Skoda Laura 2 days back. This decision came after long research and multiple considerations, re-considerations etc. I too am coming from Maruti Stable and looking forward to buy a European car. But after all the thinking and research there has to be some decision at the end right? Now after decision is made, we still listen to rumors and spend more anxious hours, days and months. But let me re-assure you you have chosen well. Have faith in your decision. At the end no brand is absolutely foolproof including legendary Toyotas too. So Just look forward to enjoy your drive.
Edit: Having booked a Skoda Laura CR TDI 2.0 Elegance MT, and the delivery day being within a week, I was tempted to change my choice to Elegance AT again and again. But somehow coming back to this thread makes me feel that choosing MT was correct one. Here AT and MT are not equal with AT having more powerful engine tuning (30horses more to be precise) the temptation to jump to AT is more with AT being available with all the trims where as in Jetta both MT and AT have 140bhp engines with 6 speed manual gearbox.
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Old 27th August 2012, 03:55   #93
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Default Re: 7 Simple Guidelines if you're buying a European car

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Originally Posted by arunrajk81 View Post
What made me to book duster is because its a Mini SUV which helps me in my Photographic Trips and Logans Proven Reliability in India as a Brand
I can see lot of Loga Taxis above 2Lakhs Kms still in better condition compared to Indigos
The Duster will prove itself to you, don't worry. It is an extremely reliable and frugal vehicle with a ride quality that is unmatched by vehicles a couple of segments above it too. Also, there have been zilch issues with the current line up of Renault/Nissan cars. Enjoy your drive.

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Edit: Having booked a Skoda Laura CR TDI 2.0 Elegance MT, and the delivery day being within a week, I was tempted to change my choice to Elegance AT again and again.
I d go with the AT if I were you. Reason: The poll I posted on Skoda reliability and the ample number of owners who confirmed that it is only the 7 speed DSG that has had issues off late. The DQ 250 is very reliable.

Here is the link to that thread. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...hatronics.html (Skoda Woes And The Ghost Of The Mechatronics!!)
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Old 27th August 2012, 06:36   #94
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Thanks Devadath for the suggestion
I have been seeing that MT Skodas haven't reported so many problems. Manson's 2011 DSG Laura had a failure this year if I remember correctly. So some issues with even 6speed DSGs too exist and continue. Everything else equal, part I can see failing in an MT Laura probably will be clutch plate if not driven properly but will be cheaper to replace. If 30 less horses in an MT Laura gives me lesser chances of failure, I will take it as an acceptable compromise. I had a colleague who burnt a CL MT Jetta's clutch recently which took 25k to replace, clutch plate being a non warranty part.
For me this will be the only car and I have no standby. Also I can't afford it to fail in middle of nowhere. Hence I will go MT way which will be I think is bit more reliable option of enjoying a European car.

Any faults in my logic?
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Old 27th August 2012, 07:55   #95
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Default Re: 7 Simple Guidelines if you're buying a European car

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Thanks Devadath for the suggestion
I have been seeing that MT Skodas haven't reported so many problems. Manson's 2011 DSG Laura had a failure this year if I remember correctly. So some issues with even 6speed DSGs too exist and continue. Everything else equal, part I can see failing in an MT Laura probably will be clutch plate if not driven properly but will be cheaper to replace. If 30 less horses in an MT Laura gives me lesser chances of failure, I will take it as an acceptable compromise. I had a colleague who burnt a CL MT Jetta's clutch recently which took 25k to replace, clutch plate being a non warranty part.
For me this will be the only car and I have no standby. Also I can't afford it to fail in middle of nowhere. Hence I will go MT way which will be I think is bit more reliable option of enjoying a European car.

Any faults in my logic?
Edit: Also someone with knowledge please enlighten me

1. what would be frequent issues with an MT Laura which prevents one from driving the car and leaves you stranded during a long journey? A/C compressor problems may make you just uncomfortable but I dont believe they stall the car.

2. Other than Clutch wear and tear any other consistent serious issues with MT Laura? DSG seems to be hit or miss affair, agreed more hits with only occasional miss. When its a hit, the owner praises it to no end but when its a miss, it leaves one stranded and disgusted. Correct?

3. I have heard the owners of failed DSG Lauras / superbs sounding disgusted and swearing never to purchase a Skoda again, but anybody felt that they could safely consider only MT Skoda options in future keeping in mind that it is the DSG feature that has failed? Probably Skoda is still value for money for the build and driving comfort and quality which you get even in MT if you leave the comfort of driving an AT aside?

4. If I want to keep the car for 5 years or bit more, is the MT option safer considering the fact that Ext warranty expires in 4 yrs? Do the probabilities of DSG failing increase with age? If I want to keep a DSG for more than 5 yrs, it will be wise to set aside an emergency fund of couple of lacs. Still you cant compensate for inconveniences faced if you are stuck in the middle of a long journey with your family to a remote hill station with no Skoda dealer nearby.

All in all I think the owner of this thread has aptly put it in his guidelines to stay away from DSGs and go for manuals. May be over next 5 years we will see the reliability issues getting solved. I was consoling myself I would go for an AT Laura as there are no DSG failures reported in 2012. But I was wrong.
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Old 27th August 2012, 10:17   #96
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Default Re: 7 Simple Guidelines if you're buying a European car

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Originally Posted by dezrskb View Post
Having booked a Skoda Laura CR TDI 2.0 Elegance MT
I would suggest you go for the AT as the DSG-6 gearbox issues are by far quite negligible. The MT in this TDI variant is strangely under powered as well as gets only a 5 speed gearbox. If it had a 6 speed one with the same amount of engine power as the AT one then it would have made more sense to stick with the MT. But if reliability is paramount, you can either think of compromising on luxury all together and shift from the Europeans luxo barges and consider brands like Toyota or live with the 5 speeder MT that you have chosen, as an MT will always be more reliable.
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Old 27th August 2012, 11:41   #97
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Thanks Dkaile for the comments.
I think i will tread the middle path of a European car with slightly better reliability of an MT, thats to say Laura MT. During my test drive I found the power of MT 110bhp sufficient. Hence the decision. I did consider Jetta CL but seems bit overpriced. I may not have an issue with DSG if I buy it but if it does, it will inconvenience me a lot as I have a single dealer and dont know how long he will take to procure parts and I have no standby car hence cant afford the car to remain off work.
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Old 29th August 2012, 09:38   #98
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Default Re: 7 Simple Guidelines if you're buying a European car

Just my inputs

i owned a skoda octy 1.9tdi ambiente for 5 years. did close to 82000 Kms in it. Had to sell it off.
Positives of the ownership
: Car was brilliant, not even a rattle in the cabin even at 82000 Kms.
: The engine was a dream, and extremely robust
: Brilliant efficiency
Thats it!!!

Cons
: Pathetic service both at Tafe & later at Vinayaka
: Service advisors who think they are GODS!!!
: Ridiculously expensive maintenance/upkeep. Ask the service advisors and their reply is " Its a German car, it will be a little expensive!!!"

From 60000Kms - 75000Kms, the service costed us in the range of 74000/- (for clutch plate + fly wheel +water pump + timing belt replacement and routine service) . That was when we decided to sell it.

Regards
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Old 29th August 2012, 14:42   #99
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Default Re: 7 Simple Guidelines if you're buying a European car

Well another "do not buy a skoda" thread, that is what the content means anyway, even though the subject talks about european cars in general.
I dont have the experience of owning an "actual" skoda, I have bought the Rapid which is a "Euro" car for sure, but does not probably carry the Skoda DNA as much as the Laura or the Octy.
I had a dzire for 4 years, so I guess I'm qualified to comment on "Japanese" cars. Was the car trouble free? No! The braking was horrible, I went to the service center as many as ten times in an effort to get this rectified, but no help. There were numerous cases of very bad rattling noise in the front wheels. One of the twin horns would just stop working every time you hit a pothole. But somehow you learn to live with these niggles. Not very satisfying if you ask me, but it was my first car and I was happy to take it to the service center now and then to sort out these small issues. When I decided to sell the car and go for a new one, I just wanted to ensure I bought a much better car, even if it meant taking a bit of risk. I have driven the Rapid for 5k now and i will tell you outright that this is much better than say an SX4 or a sunny in almost all aspects. Yes, servicing, spares may be the areas where there are many concerns due to high costs etc, but rather than servcing a japanese / korean car twice or thrice a year and spend 4k on each service, I wouldnt mind spending 8-10 on a single service every year.
The "other" skodas have a quiet a bad reputation from what I have heard due to their lack of localization. The fabia, which is the best built car under 10 lakhs, suffers from lack of expertise in the service centers etc. Laura, I'm not sure, I have always head their owners vouch for their quality.
The whole thing is very relative, some of us dont mind riding rattling Jap cars, taking them to service every 3rd or 4th month and would happily call them reliable, whereas if it was a skoda or a VW, our expectations suddenly become very high and we start degrading them at the sight of the smallest issue. I'm not saying that VW/Skodas are the best around, but every car has its strengths and weaknessess and for Skoda /VW it is probably their servicing network. I guess with sharing platforms, {Rapid/vento, UP/Citigo} their spare part prices and servcing becomes a lot better.
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Old 29th August 2012, 15:35   #100
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Default Re: 7 Simple Guidelines if you're buying a European car

I suppose "motorworks" is right. Every car has its share of problems. Probably it is the cost of repairs which makes people unable to digest problems in European cars. Japanese cars also have its fair share of problems.

When I had a Zen about 8 to 9 years back and by the time I sold the car when it reached 60,000 kms on the odometer, I had to change the drive shaft 4 times and each time the service centre refused warranty stating that the oil seal is broken. I am a sedate driver and I donot understand how the same problem can crop up on one car when none of my other cars in my 30 years of car ownership had any such problem. The God of Luck plays a major part in owning a trouble-free car.
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Old 29th August 2012, 15:40   #101
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Default Re: 7 Simple Guidelines if you're buying a European car

There use3d to be (probably still is) a regulation that a govt car can be replaced after 6 years or 50,000km whichever came first. I think one may stretch the mileage a bit, but it is a sound advice. There is a lot of wear and tear and simply ageing going on.
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Old 10th September 2012, 14:03   #102
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Default Re: 7 Simple Guidelines if you're buying a European car

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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
My MB is better than your MB. The ABS can never fail on my MB, because it has no ABS!!
OT, Are you referring to post #24 here ?

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...tml#post111117 (Autohangar tried to dupe me!!)
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Old 10th September 2012, 14:17   #103
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Default Re: 7 Simple Guidelines if you're buying a European car

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Originally Posted by motorworks View Post
The whole thing is very relative, some of us dont mind riding rattling Jap cars, taking them to service every 3rd or 4th month and would happily call them reliable, whereas if it was a skoda or a VW, our expectations suddenly become very high and we start degrading them at the sight of the smallest issue.
Precisely motorworks. In fact, the much defamed DSGs too have proven to be very reliable off late with the exception of the 7speed dry clutch DSG fitted in the Superb.
See this thread and poll results:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...hatronics.html (Skoda Woes And The Ghost Of The Mechatronics!!)

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Originally Posted by thesilentone View Post
I suppose "motorworks" is right. Every car has its share of problems. Probably it is the cost of repairs which makes people unable to digest problems in European cars. Japanese cars also have its fair share of problems.
He is indeed right and we have overdone the Skoda thing.

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
There use3d to be (probably still is) a regulation that a govt car can be replaced after 6 years or 50,000km whichever came first. I think one may stretch the mileage a bit, but it is a sound advice. There is a lot of wear and tear and simply ageing going on.
I dunno Prof, but don't you see old Land Rovers, Toyotas and Mitsubishis running for decades and millions of kilometers in the barren lands of SA and Australia?

I feel 50k kms/6 years is too short a life for a car.
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Old 10th September 2012, 14:45   #104
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Originally Posted by motorworks View Post
Yes, servicing, spares may be the areas where there are many concerns due to high costs etc, but rather than servcing a japanese / korean car twice or thrice a year and spend 4k on each service, I wouldnt mind spending 8-10 on a single service every year.
These people who service their japanese cars thrice a year and spend 4K on each service - who are they and how many kms do they drive per year?

I drive my swift around 10000 kms per year. I service my car once a year. In the odd year - it's a minor service costing 1500-2000. In the even year, it's a major service costing 4000-5000.
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Old 10th September 2012, 15:48   #105
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A very interesting and thought provoking thread. Few things that crossed my mind while reading this -

1. German cars give that solid feel inside the cabin even after it crosses a lakh on the odo (My friend to whom I suggested the Octavia and drove on Day 1 still thanks me for this suggestion. I drove it again at 88,000 and it still felt like Day 1. My Elantra failed to give me a feel that matched this even at an earlier odo reading)

2. Mechanicals - It looks like a hit or miss thing for me. Let me comment on a few of the cars in our circle -

1. The Octavia - this is the one I mentioned above. Had the extended warranty for the Rider Classic and he enjoyed this warranty to every bit. Even used to get wiper blades replaced which he jokes was only because of the intro I was able to give him there. At 1,10,000 when he finally sold it, he didnt have any major work (even the clutch) to be done - everything was intact!

2. VW Jetta 2010 May - The CRDi version, PDI was a bit too loud. At 40,000 km as of today, I see an owner who still sings praises. Even today, we had a talk and he seemed to be more in love with his Jetta. He started taking better care of her after another friend of ours bought the new Jetta AT HL. This car is loaded with everything one can possibly dream of in that segment.

3. Mahindra XUV 5oo - No niggles or issues till date after having clocked 30,000 km. A close friend who also has a pre-owned, abused vRs he is restoring step by step, Peted Innova and a Scorpio. His was the first XUV that rolled out from TVS in Trivandrum.

4. My Elantra - blissful experience for the price I paid. However, a rattle that started at 5000 km on the dash continues at 1,20,000. Clutch is the Achilles Heel for this car - wore out more than I thought I would. Some blames it on the Petes, but I was told by a friend that it has a small unit that potentially makes it weak. Comparing with the Octavia, there is a certain difference at 1KM or 100,000 in terms of overall refinement. Both of us are happy - for the price I paid, I am happy for the services it offered and I tend of forgive the small rattles and trips to the service center and for the Octavia owner, he is delighted albeit having less power on tap for the refinement and solid build he enjoyed.

5. Laura PD - One of our friends has it and despite some of the earlier models having issues with the Compressor unit and the Engine mounts, this guy finds it difficult to let go of it despite having this constant urge to get an Automatic! Does periodic service and is gentle on the car - no mods AT ALL!

6. Verna CRDi - A friend of mine recently sold his Verna after having completed 86,000 on the Odo. I remember clearly the issues we found with its Clutch and rattles at around 10,000. The rattles just wouldn't go away and the strange sound after releasing the clutch existed even after repeated "Checks" by the technicians. Dull interiors for his 2007 Verna - sold it and got a pre-owned 2009 Passat HL. Jumped several steps! Had a minor issue with a Secondary Cooling Unit and knows he is out of warranty period. Says he consciously took the decision and is happy about it for the absolutely princely ride experience it offers. He says he wouldnt paying for a part that fails for the kind of difference it offers for an auto-crazy person like him.

7. Fiat Linea - A friend of ours bought a Linea recently and unluckily for him, has had more trips to the Service center than his hometown for minor niggles.

Great thread - and the lesson is whatever brand we own, there is an unlucky star that could turn our way and ruin the ownership experience. Otherwise, Koreans cost less and offer great Value for Money, Japs cost decent, offer moderate features but great reliability and service and Germans offer great refinement for a price tag!

I am looking to move up and after having read GTO's thread, I decided to go in for a pre-owned car. Got a sweet deal when I came across a 2010 Jetta that has done just 7000KMS! Elantra is still a favorite black stallion and I wouldnt want to let go of it. Finally decided to let go of our one year old i10 AT Asta. If someone is looking for a car of that sort, please send a PM.
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