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Old 16th August 2012, 11:49   #16
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Default Re: Honda City S-AT is back!

Well folks I am taking up the gauntlet. I have had an AT since 1999 when I bought s second hand (1997) Zen AT.

Let me first take up the N vs D with brake issue. In any case when stopped the brake should be kept pressed, else it can roll very easily. Keeping the car in D is more convenient but does consume a bit more fuel since the Torque Converter is very much in the picture all the time. If I expect the stop to be short I stay in D else may shift to N.

An AT is a boon in start stop driving. No hassles, no pain in the left leg etc. Also, quite often when things are really slow just easing on the brake is all you need to creep forward.

The place to be careful with an AT is hills. Going up you may wish to override the AT, esp if it starts hunting. Coming down you must be in one of the lower ratios, where the engine braking is operating at all times. Otherwise by riding the brake pedal all the way, you risk cooking the brakes, and ending up with no braking.

One small think with ATs. There is a bit of a lag when starting from static, and also if you try for kickdown, the car may pause before gathering its skirts and start racing.

My old Zen was a carb, 50bhp, 3 Speed AT, the Santro is 60+ bhp with a 3+1 ATtransmission, while the Civic is the 5-speed high end (with torque converter lock above a certain speed). The same transmission is found in the City.
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Old 16th August 2012, 14:01   #17
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Default Re: Honda City S-AT is back!

One thing I forgot to add is a small trick to improve the consumption. If you expect to be just running also leisurely at some speed you have reached, lift off momentarily, this will encourage an upshift, and then drive gently. I do this all the time. The Civic has a tacho so I know what is happening, on the Santro with no tacho I have to play it by the ear.
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Old 17th August 2012, 09:30   #18
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Default Re: Honda City S-AT is back!

*Update*

Prices & brochure added to the opening post.
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Old 17th August 2012, 10:05   #19
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Default Re: Honda City S-AT is back!

Yes! You need to keep pressing the brake when stationery. however when you are driving there is no need to keep pressing the clutch to upshift/downshift all the time. Also the effort to push the brake is much lesser than to operate the clutch. An automatic is a boon to users who spend minimum 1 hour in rush-hour daily.

Trust me once you get used to the automatic, you hate the manual (Our driver always finds a way to get his hands on the Superb instead of the other cars at home)
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Old 20th August 2012, 03:31   #20
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Default Re: Honda City S-AT is back!

Quote:
Originally Posted by urajkumar View Post
Yes! You need to keep pressing the brake when stationery. however when you are driving there is no need to keep pressing the clutch to upshift/downshift all the time. Also the effort to push the brake is much lesser than to operate the clutch. An automatic is a boon to users who spend minimum 1 hour in rush-hour daily.

Trust me once you get used to the automatic, you hate the manual (Our driver always finds a way to get his hands on the Superb instead of the other cars at home)
I curently drive a manual and am interested in an AT. Honda AT is on the radar along with Verna, Fiesta and Vento.

Do you shift to N when halted at a red light? How is the reversing when compared to MT? Can you control the speed with only the brake - is there a reverse creep also?

And what will be the on road price for SAT - what do we NOT get in the SAT when compared to the top version apart from sun roof and is it worth the lower price?

Thanks in advance,
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Old 20th August 2012, 09:50   #21
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Default Re: Honda City S-AT is back!

Welcome move by Honda, wonder why it took so long. But, timing is just right for my brother to reconsider his decision & move from S-MT to S-AT.
We tested AT on a slope, it didn't roll back after release of foot brake and moved forward after pressing accelerator peddle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venkytalks View Post
Do you shift to N when halted at a red light?
Please read post by 'sgiitk' in this thread.

Quote:
what do we NOT get in the SAT when compared to the top version apart from sun roof and is it worth the lower price?
Yes, it's worth lower price. Features missing in S-AT Vs V-MT or V-AT would be Cruise control and other cosmetics like chrome grill, chrome handles. Please check brochure for details.
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Old 20th August 2012, 10:34   #22
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Default Re: Honda City S-AT is back!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venkytalks View Post
1. I curently drive a manual and am interested in an AT. Honda AT is on the radar along with Verna, Fiesta and Vento.

2. Do you shift to N when halted at a red light? How is the reversing when compared to MT? Can you control the speed with only the brake - is there a reverse creep also?
1. Honda AT is probably superior to the the others.
2. Normally I leave it in D (already discussed). Yes, there can be reverse creep so it is the normal mix of brake and throttle. In a way reversing is easier since you do not have to declutch, and can use the reverse creep to move very slowly. Remember creep is worse in a cold engine due to higher revs, and cooler transmission oil.
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Old 21st August 2012, 00:14   #23
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Default Re: Honda City S-AT is back!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venkytalks View Post
I curently drive a manual and am interested in an AT. Honda AT is on the radar along with Verna, Fiesta and Vento. Do you shift to N when halted at a red light? How is the reversing when compared to MT? Can you control the speed with only the brake - is there a reverse creep also?
And what will be the on road price for SAT - what do we NOT get in the SAT when compared to the top version apart from sun roof and is it worth the lower price?Thanks in advance,
You need not shift to N unless its a long wait. Reversing again can be done using brake for short distance / low speed.

The On-road price of Honda AT in chennai is 10.5 lakhs and it has most must imp features like ABS / Airbags / Music system etc to my knowledge. You should also try the Ford Fiesta (new) Style variant which matches to Honda AT in almost everything including price. The big difference is that Ford AT is advanced technology which uses dual clutch which gives good refinement and efficiency as well. Vento is slightly expensive. If you like the looks Hyunday Verna is available too. Of course Honda is a Honda.

Go ahead and buy an automatic if you are stuck in bumper to bumper traffic everyday. Do take a test drive to decide what works for you. Its definitely worth the investment

Last edited by urajkumar : 21st August 2012 at 00:20.
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Old 21st August 2012, 00:26   #24
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Default Re: Honda City S-AT is back!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venkytalks View Post
I curently drive a manual and am interested in an AT. Honda AT is on the radar along with Verna, Fiesta and Vento.

Do you shift to N when halted at a red light? How is the reversing when compared to MT? Can you control the speed with only the brake - is there a reverse creep also?

And what will be the on road price for SAT - what do we NOT get in the SAT when compared to the top version apart from sun roof and is it worth the lower price?
My two cents

A. The Verna's would be the worst of the lot in terms of outright refinement and punch. I had to choose between a Vento and City and chose a used City since I felt the City was a bit more responsive and the paddle shifts were really useful, not something just for show. The Fiesta is a joy to drive, loved it when I drove it some months back, but the engine is just so underpowered. Shame, because there's a lot to like about it. For me, it would be City>Vento>Fiesta>Verna

B. I shift to N only during long signals, activating the hand brake in tandem. There is also a reverse creep and this can be easily managed using the brakes, no problem there.

C. To quote some news reports

Quote:
What the City S AT trim misses out from the higher spec V AT is chrome-tipped exhaust, fog lamps, turn indicators on ORVMs, 10-spoke alloy wheels and on the inside gun-metal finish on the dashboard and cruise control.
So if you want the City AT at a lower price point, it makes sense. The big misses are fog lamps, turn indicators and maybe cruise control. But the extra dough for the V AT definitely makes sense, it's a negligible jump, even if I think the 5 spoke alloys look better than the 10 spoke ones.

Last edited by iliketurtles : 21st August 2012 at 00:27. Reason: Typo :(
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Old 21st August 2012, 11:14   #25
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Default Re: Honda City S-AT is back!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
1. Honda AT is probably superior to the the others.
Hi SG Sir,

I do not concur with you that Honda's AT is superior to Hyundai or as a matter of fact any other AT offered in other cars. Keeping aside the reliability problems/issues of the VW Group DSGs, if two or more cars offer 4-speed ATs, one is better for one set of drivers the way it is tuned.

To put it in simple words, if it upshifts earlier & downshifts later, it may not be good for enthusiasts, but, good for mileage conscious drivers & vice-versa.

Hope I am not incorrect & not offended you .

Cardeep
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Old 21st August 2012, 11:32   #26
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Default Re: Honda City S-AT is back!

How about a Corporate AT at 8.xx ex showroom ? Would really set the cat among the pigeons - for the average corporate self driver, the convenience + 1.5L saving might just turn the tables on diesel considerations.
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Old 22nd August 2012, 00:16   #27
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Default Re: Honda City S-AT is back!

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Originally Posted by the.city View Post
I so feel for you. I got mine in May. Only if I had waited for a few more months!!!

Also, why don't they indicate AT in some way on the car? I would love to sport a AT label next to the "V". Nobody does this. I wonder why?

Sporting AT? If your idea is to make people aware then let me tell you that most people in our country would not know even if car companies wrote the words "Automatic Transmission" at the back. What is transmission, they would say? Overhead electric lines? Then car companies would have to write "Automatic Gears". Then may be 50 per cent would get the picture.

i10 sports "auto" at the back. I saw one person asking why is a car sporting "Auto" badge? Is it an auto-rickshaw? My A-Star sports "Automatic" badge but right underneath it, MUL put ABS badge. So, now it reads like "Automatic ABS" and many people asked me, "Does A-Star have an automatic ABS?" That is our automotive knowledge.
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Old 22nd August 2012, 09:57   #28
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Default Re: Honda City S-AT is back!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CARDEEP View Post
I do not concur with you that Honda's AT is superior to Hyundai or as a matter of fact any other AT offered in other cars. Keeping aside the reliability problems/issues of the VW Group DSGs, if two or more cars offer 4-speed ATs, one is better for one set of drivers the way it is tuned.
We are all free to have our opinions.

For starters the Honda AT is a five speed and not a four speed. The Ford is (I think) a six speed CVT.

Some ATs are effectively 3+1's and not even true four speeds. Why I say so is that I have the same AT in my Civic and remember at speed (I think above 70kph or so) the transmission locks out the Torque Converter giving you better efficiency. In one run from Agra to Kanpur I got 17.6kpl in the Civic with the AC running. In my two years I have found the AT to be very smooth and nice. Honda City Mk.II had a CVT and was nowhere as good.
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Old 22nd August 2012, 12:43   #29
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Default Re: Honda City S-AT is back!

Bit confused on why we need to shuttle between 'D' and 'N'.
The engine rpm is the same in both these modes as well as in 'R'. I am talking about running scenario, wherein the engine temperature has warmed up.

If this is the case, then efficiency vise are we gaining anything by moving across? Or is it the extra braking that we are avoiding? Or is there anything else?
Kindly excuse if this is completely
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Old 22nd August 2012, 13:54   #30
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Default Re: Honda City S-AT is back!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
The Ford is (I think) a six speed CVT.
Sir, I believe the Fiesta (the Ford you refer to) sports Ford's own dual-clutch technology.

And yes, the City 5 speed truly is very fuel efficient. I got an average of 17.9 if I remember right for an extended 250 km drive between Lonavala and Mumbai with the A/C fully on at all times.
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