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Old 14th August 2012, 21:11   #16
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Default Re: The Truth about Mercedes India, according to Cama Motors (Ex-Mercedes Dealer)

If CAMA is aware of so much details, there is every possibility that they were also hand in glove with this until something went seriously wrong. Unless some hard facts are placed before the community, nothing can be made out of this one.
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Old 14th August 2012, 21:33   #17
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Default Re: The Truth about Mercedes India, according to Cama Motors (Ex-Mercedes Dealer)

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Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
If CAMA is aware of so much details, there is every possibility that they were also hand in glove with this until something went seriously wrong. Unless some hard facts are placed before the community, nothing can be made out of this one.
+1000.
Why were they so silent till date ? Now in Gujarat, Benchmark Mercedes is doing business, and even opening in Vadodara. Why CAMA were so silent when they knew that they were point of interaction with car owners and not informing the customers at that point of time = cheating the customer. Whats the proof that when CAMA gets dealership of any other brand they would not cheat the customer ?

Moreover, had their business not being snatched away by others, would CAMA come up with such details ? Or just continue the way they did for years ?

IMO, this is just to grab attention. This does not mean that I am refuting the issues, just that its coming from a source which remained silent and as far as my view goes, cheated the customers.

Let the investigation be done and then only we can conclude anything.
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Old 14th August 2012, 21:53   #18
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Default Re: The Truth about Mercedes India, according to Cama Motors (Ex-Mercedes Dealer)

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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Why were they so silent till date ?
They were silent because

Quote:
We never understood or expected that some of these campaigns, which amounted to removing parts and software and replacing them were connected to life threatening defects.(Really ? Then what an ignorant Service Centre you were !) We ourselves were so embarrassed by the pathetic quality that we blindly carried out these measures (Blindly going with the tide ?) which you will undoubtedly be disgusted by when you see the details.(Now that we get to see the details, what exactly was your plans until now ?)

It was only after many years that we could no longer remain in denial and we began to piece the details together, painting a picture of a company murderously involved in malpractice of the most serious kind. We are sure that it will shake the world of consumer rights when people are made aware of the deceitful way in which this company has tried to cling to their past glory, while being neck-deep in immoral and unethical practices.(Excellent Idea, now we are talking about the consumers. Bravo )
From here

Maybe they will be willing to end this with an out of court settlement and continue providing the great service that they have been providing so far.
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Old 14th August 2012, 22:47   #19
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Default Re: The Truth about Mercedes India, according to Cama Motors (Ex-Mercedes Dealer)

BMW Ultimat3 ad banner very sarcastically sitting on top of the Moneylife article! The big Germans playing dirty.

Last edited by Deep Blue : 14th August 2012 at 22:56.
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Old 14th August 2012, 23:22   #20
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Default Re: The Truth about Mercedes India, according to Cama Motors (Ex-Mercedes Dealer)

Mercedes benz India checks with Germany for warranty claims to be given or no even if the wiper motor fails. Yes ! Many shenanigans by MBIL.

I remember an old autocar mag circa 2007 when a leading lawyers C180 kompressor had multiple failures. The lawyer "promised not to recommended" mercedes anymore and Voila, Mercedes replaces the old C with a new one.
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Old 14th August 2012, 23:34   #21
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Default Re: The Truth about Mercedes India, according to Cama Motors (Ex-Mercedes Dealer)

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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Whats the proof that when CAMA gets dealership of any other brand they would not cheat .
If i were a manufacturer I dont think I'd want them as a dealer after they pulled a stunt like this. I dont understand what they expect to achieve through this.

Last edited by khanak : 14th August 2012 at 23:36.
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Old 14th August 2012, 23:54   #22
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Default Re: The Truth about Mercedes India, according to Cama Motors (Ex-Mercedes Dealer)

Guys, we should be thrilled. Because of these guys washing their dirty linen in public we get a glimpse of the truth we we otherwise would not have.

Of course the sudden bout of morality is questionable, its in 'self interest' rather than public interest but in the end it benefits everyone.

I am honestly not surprised, because of lax implementation of basic laws in India, folks get away with anything.

EDIT: I sincerely apologize to Cama Motors for my casual statement above. I have just gone through the site and it seems the owner bravely raised issues persistently to Mercedes and was completely sincere in his efforts since 2004 and earlier. From the multiple letters it is clear he is a individual who is genuinely concerned and deeply cares about customers and took the fight to Mercedes never mind financial losses. This is a rare thing is today's world and I applaud Mr Rustom Cama.

I am completely disgusted that inspite of his persistent efforts neither the media, various govt departments or Mercedes have remotely bothered to resolve these issues. This level of blatant and defiant disregard to customer safety is truly unique to India. If a dealer cannot do anything what chance for the average individual?

Last edited by raul : 15th August 2012 at 00:19.
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Old 15th August 2012, 00:30   #23
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Default Re: The Truth about Mercedes India, according to Cama Motors (Ex-Mercedes Dealer)

India has always been the dumping /testing ground for western players for several years with the help of a few dirty Indian partners.
This news isn't surprising at all honestly!!! In this case CAMA plays the part of the dirty partner. Due to their internal issues with MB, they decide to turn the game around. One thief revealing others thief's whereabouts
Good news is that the cover is partly blown, we can expect the consumers to be more sensitive to issues in their MBs than blindly believe their friendly service technician going forward...
My father in laws mb suspension once packed up on the highway leaving him stranded on goa highway with his family. As he was at very low speed they ask got away without any harm...the service tech supposedly said that its a common occurrence and will be repaired under warranty but now i'm wondering what would've happ if they were at considerably higher speeds

Last edited by The Wolf : 15th August 2012 at 00:33.
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Old 15th August 2012, 16:07   #24
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Default Re: The Truth about Mercedes India, according to Cama Motors (Ex-Mercedes Dealer)

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Originally Posted by Nilesh5417 View Post
When was the website up and other than the website, where has this news been reported? I do not think this news will have any serious impact on MB unless its taken up on some TV channel and goes beyond the internet. If MB have survived so far, they can survive going forward unless media kicks up a scandal.
But the important point is - is this true? Or is this some stunt engineered by BMW/Audi? It shows only 3 complaints so far and not sure if any customers will stand up if it comes to trial. And why this sudden change of heart on the part of Cama motors?
Unfortunately, the times are such that its hard to believe Cama motors is doing it with a simple motive of coming clean. And this sort of allegation is too serious to be trusted based on only 1 side of the story.
Are there any threads on t-bhp where MB owners are complaining that we can reference to?

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Originally Posted by BeamerBoy View Post
It is really sad state of affairs for Mercedes Benz.

Looks like an Ex dealer gone rogue. If I remember, CAMA Motors got separated from MB some years ago. What followed was a bitter claim and counter claim battle leading to arbitration. Truths and allegation rolling from both sides.

Wondering why the site comes up so late! Has CAMA exhausted all possibilities of any damage recovery ($$) from MB? I will take this with a pinch of salt. The situation is akin to a marriage gone bad. CAMA subsequently tried its hands on used cars, multi brand outlet but the business could not fly.

What is wrong with a company extending service measures? Every company does it. It is good that a company once it identifies a defect even after the delivery of the car goes out to call back the cars and fix it. Dead line for the job! Lest the dealer won't budge because there is no profit to be made in that repair.

Yes, there were a couple of 'service measures' that were specifically intended to keep the customer in the dark. Bad Manners Mercedes (Ref: Turbocharger measure). However, I am sure that communication would be a brain child of an in-experienced person.

Does issuing service measures imply poor quality? Not till such time service measures are appearing once in a while. Service measures exist and will continue to exist, how a company does it is a deciding factor.
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Originally Posted by Nitrous Power View Post
Just one question to Cama Motors: why were they silent when they were the sole dealer of MB for Gujarat for so many years? They decided to file complaints only after their dealership was snatched away and was given to Landmark Group.

However, government agency should look into all these allegations ASAP.

I feel the same that maybe Cama had a serious falling out with Mercedes BUT if we start dissecting Cama's motives we will be shooting the messenger. Forget the motives of Cama, the issue is that is all that is bwing mentioned about Mercedes true? If it is then Cama's motives are irrelevant. Is going into Cama's motives going to help us - NO. Is going into the business practices of Mercedes going to help us -YES. At least to those who may at some point be in a position to buy one for themselves.
I for one am not in a position to buy a Mercedes but feel sorry for people who pay an arm and a leg for a car like this and then are lied to.
I mean seriously how would one feel after having paid a premium for a so called premium car you found out that because of some less than appropriate parts your life and limb were at risk and the company knew about it and still decided to be coy about it? Those customers are not being treated as premium customers at all but like lambs for slaughter. If luck saves them fine otherwise screw them.
Do you reckon they do similar things in US/Europe and get away with it?
Do you think that the Jeffery Wigand's and Erin Brockovich's of the world would stand a chance if we decided to delve into their motives and ignore what they were trying to expose..? We should indulge in talk like that at our own peril.
Remember Ford Pinto - Ford chose to pay the burnt victims rather than recall the faulty cars as the former course of action would cost less than latter...!
If as customers we make the mistake of shooting at a wrong target we may find ourselves in the driving seat of a future Pinto..!
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Old 15th August 2012, 18:04   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowardly Lion
If as customers we make the mistake of shooting at a wrong target we may find ourselves in the driving seat of a future Pinto..!
Dude, nobody is trying to shoot the messenger. When something like this comes up, there are always two sides of stories and one has to look at both side. Look at my post that you have quoted, I said that government agency should start investigation ASAP. BUT, at the same time, Cama Motors should be investigated on why they did not go to court if issues of such serious nature were there.

By the way, back in the days, our dealing with Cama Motors was always transparent and smooth.
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Old 15th August 2012, 18:30   #26
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I seriously doubt that Mercedes would fail to issues recall in any market for serious safety issues. Has anyone checked if Mercedes has carried out a safety related recall on the issues cited by Cama in any other market? Recalls are needed only for safety issues, not for all defects.

Fixing defects under warranty or under extended goodwill warranty or when vehicles come in for service is a standard market practice followed by good manufacturers - the poorer quality ones would hope for the warranty period to end and fail to rectify defects after that.

Cars, for better or for worse, now have so much controlled by software that "patches" have become a way of life with them. None of us is shocked when Windows or Mac OS downloads updates every week, we have to get used to the same with our software controlled cars as well.
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Old 15th August 2012, 20:08   #27
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Default Re: The Truth about Mercedes India, according to Cama Motors (Ex-Mercedes Dealer)

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Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
I seriously doubt that Mercedes would fail to issues recall in any market for serious safety issues. Has anyone checked if Mercedes has carried out a safety related recall on the issues cited by Cama in any other market? Recalls are needed only for safety issues, not for all defects.

Fixing defects under warranty or under extended goodwill warranty or when vehicles come in for service is a standard market practice followed by good manufacturers - the poorer quality ones would hope for the warranty period to end and fail to rectify defects after that.

Cars, for better or for worse, now have so much controlled by software that "patches" have become a way of life with them. None of us is shocked when Windows or Mac OS downloads updates every week, we have to get used to the same with our software controlled cars as well.
Apples and Oranges. A work in progress windows that crash is a headache in the least and a severe headache at max. A defective software running a car could in theory result in loss of life and limb. The difference and therefore the due diligence involved should be immense.

There are 2 sides to every story.... of course and in my post I've mentioned as much, in fact I've started my rant saying as much.

Let me again state my point that may have gotten obscured in my rant -

This forum has considerable resources. Let us use those resources to find out to the best of our abilities if a manufacturer is being less than honest.

Re Cama - if what they are saying is not true then Mercedes, who has considerable financial resources at their disposal will make mince meal out of them in no time at all...

We were very keen on purchasing a Skoda Superb. After reading material on this forum we have side stepped Skoda for the moment. If there is a company whose dealers are running amok and the company is being non-responsive I don't wanna have anything to do with it. I'm certain that I'm not the only one on the forum who has sidestepped Skoda.

The hullabaloo about Merc may just cause any of the two to happen - authorities to wake up and tighten the screws, or Merc to tighten their own operations.

My experience with some of the biggest MNC's is that if they feel that they can get away with something they will do it...!

This is a company that is soon planning to bring Trucks onto our roads!!

I feel that we owe it to ourselves to ensure that our roads are as safe as possible.

I would highly recommend all on this forum to try and read a book by David Halberstam called "The Reckoning". A very good read about complacency setting in the best of organisations and the results thereof.
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Old 15th August 2012, 21:07   #28
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Default Re: The Truth about Mercedes India, according to Cama Motors (Ex-Mercedes Dealer)

Software patches are all fine and dandy, but sending such letters like free checkup and asking the dealers to replace the turbocharger without informing the owner of the car , is complete fraud( in search of appropriate word)

http://thetruthaboutmercedes.com/tem.../pdfs/SM11.pdf
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Old 16th August 2012, 00:41   #29
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Default Re: The Truth about Mercedes India, according to Cama Motors (Ex-Mercedes Dealer)

Guys, it seems some of us are not going through the site before commenting. I am guilty of course, for the impatient these 2 letters go to some way to show the Cama proprietor was trying his best for some time now. Let's not be indifferent to his efforts and cynical about his outburst now.

http://thetruthaboutmercedes.com/tem...fs/letter2.pdf

http://thetruthaboutmercedes.com/tem...fs/letter3.pdf

In the age of the internet only a matter of time this goes viral and causes serious damage to Mercedes. Wonder what their response is going to be, they can't ignore this. It won't go away, and there is tons of evidence in letters and other communication. How long before they take some heavy handed action to shut it down or try to reach some sort of understanding with Cama.

Last edited by raul : 16th August 2012 at 00:51.
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Old 16th August 2012, 06:59   #30
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Default Re: The Truth about Mercedes India, according to Cama Motors (Ex-Mercedes Dealer)

The second part of the article in Moneylife can be found here: The truth about Mercedes India-2: Absence of regulation - Moneylife. The article also has copies of the letter sent by Mr Cama to Competition Commission of India with copies to everyone (accessed at Jyoti Jindgar).

Some instances that shocked me were:

1. "In one case, the son of its customer died in a car accident because the airbag failed to inflate. When Cama sought the data relating to that episode, he received a letter from the company saying that the data was destroyed."

2. "Mr Cama alleges that dealers are forced to sign one-sided agreements, which are “totally immoral and unethical” and include “non-disclosure pacts”. This leaves the dealer facing “commercial and reputational suicide”. Illegal activities were forced to be carried out by dealers with the name “additional customer satisfaction campaigns,” he said." One would expect MB to show more care for its image. In this case its the dealer who is running to protect his reputation.

3. "According to Cama Motors, in case of Manish Patel’s death, the company sent one engineer, Lothar Shuzzare from Germany to inspect the car. After repeated attempts, Mr Shuzzare and Mercedes Benz gave some incomprehensible technical data on a single sheet and now the company is saying that the data was destroyed since many years have passed. And yet, the same person was dispatched by the company to inspect the S class vehicle in which Nirmal Saraf died."

MB has said “We strongly refute all the allegations levelled against us. We find these comments highly defamatory, vexatious and frivolous in nature and Cama Motors (our estranged dealer) is trying to tarnish our image; as such Mercedes-Benz India will pursue suitable legal course of action. We would also like to mention that a defamatory suit has already been filed against Cama Motors in Ahmedabad for similar defamatory activities carried on by him.”

@esteem_lover

To say "If CAMA is aware of so much details, there is every possibility that they were also hand in glove with this until something went seriously wrong." is of course speculative but also slanderous. It's sensible to assume that prima-facie every one, irrespective of their size or stature, has a fair reputation.

Cheers,
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