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Old 9th September 2012, 02:16   #76
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Default Re: August 2012 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

Polo definitely lacks the bells and whistles which you expect in a car in this price range. However, you do get better build and more mature ride and handling.

It still may not be the best value for money proposition but the car does have its advantages (at the cost of losing out on some areas like comfort features) when compared to its Japanese or Korean rivals.
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Old 9th September 2012, 10:23   #77
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The UV segment sales really amazes and brings some thoughts to my mind...

In the US, my understanding is, SUVs share of market grew because Americans are "huge", their cities are spread far apart with good roads and hence preference to travel long distances with lots of luggage etc.. If you compare this with why Indians ( again my understanding ), are lapping up SUVs, its because
a) our roads are getting worse and we need such vehicles to have a better ride quality
b) our traffic is becoming more unruly and hence might is right funda is taking precedence
c) almost all SUVs come with a diesel engine and hence cheaper to run !

just brings how the poor/misplaced policies of a govt is driving up sales of a class of vehicles, which i feel, doesn't augur well for the overall demographics of a country like ours


coming to the numbers

1) Duster sales are steadily climbing. it would be good to see in about 2-3 months, at whose expense Duster is gaining - is it more from the sedans or the existing crop of SUVs like Scorpio/Safari

2) Bolero sales - again these numbers fascinate me but I presume this includes the sames of the other body shapes like Festera, Marshal, Camper, Pick ups etc ? or is it pure Bolero model alone ? Again I wonder why Govt Depts buy ONLY Boleros and dont even consider the Sumo when its cheaper ? Arent these vehicles bought through a competitive bidding process ? are Sumos so unreliable that Govt dept favours the Bolero ?

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Old 9th September 2012, 15:49   #78
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Originally Posted by joslicx View Post
Actually its wrong to compare Polo with Figo. Figo is not positioned as a premium car. Polo is very much positioned in the market as a premium small car.

Polo should be compared with i20 and Jazz. i20 is highly successful (on that basis it can be argued that all the bells and whistles do sell). Thats what the geniuses at VW are now trying to do - match i20 for features. The mango junta in India do not look at Engines that much as much as they look at differentiators like ACC or beige interiors or other feel good factors etc.

Their positioning is certainly very different, but, they do cater to the same segment of buyers. Figo, Swift, Polo, i20, Fabia, Micra, Pulse, Liva, Indica, Punto: they are all fighting it out in the same category. Now, each manufacturer might major on different selling points, like VFM or style or quality and so on.
The i20 does offer a lot of equipment, but it's success is built on several other factors as well, namely the it's styling, both in and out, its network, and no big deal breakers as far as Indian consumers are concerned.
It would too simplistic to classify the Indian customer as being feature centric and completely blind to something as essential as the engine (Pick-up, FE, power figures). They might not go as deep as finding out about the chassis, (which explains the success of Hyundai). Agree with you on the Jazz front, but diesel-petrol disparity is way too high. Petrol models nowadays have to appeal to the heart rather than the head to stand a chance. The City does that, but the MPV-like styled Jazz doesn't, not with its 1.2L engine
They should either plonk in the 1.5 L engine, or a more practical option would be to get that upcoming Brio diesel engine into the Jazz as well
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Old 9th September 2012, 17:23   #79
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Originally Posted by srikanth.vemuri

Their positioning is certainly very different, but, they do cater to the same segment of buyers. Figo, Swift, Polo, i20, Fabia, Micra, Pulse, Liva, Indica, Punto: they are all fighting it out in the same category. Now, each manufacturer might major on different selling points, like VFM or style or quality and so on.
So if we go by your argument then figo only sells half as much as swift every month so it must be a failure as well. That is about the same ratio of figo polo as well roughly speaking.

And what would you say about liva? Its quite brilliant at many things Indians crave - space, reliability, diesel, price, badge etc. Still it does not sell as much.

We can put forth as many arguments we want but it's all just academic. Maybe vw make as much profits selling 3k polos as maruti makes selling 10k swifts. At the end of the day that's what matters right?
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Old 9th September 2012, 18:36   #80
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Default Re: August 2012 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

The last few posts on this thread are a good read for anyone in a bad mood. Surely lifts your spirits! What ridiculous posts guys!

Since when did 'premium' become having more features and space, if that's the case why do cars like Indica Vista,Liva fail to meet the manufacturers expectations. They have loads of space, refined engines with good drivability,features are also upto segment standards yet they lag behind in sales.

How relavant is it to bring in the International market and say that Polo is only a 'average hatch' abroad ? Aren't we in an Indian forum,discussing Indian auto market ? Its under the 'Indian car scene' section for heavens sake!

Polo has its shortcomings no doubt. I agree that VW should have given a proper 4 cyl engine and priced it slightly lower. They've corrected the price now and added a few features too. Its not enough yes, but surely we can appreciate a step in the right direction ?

In the hatch segment with so many options available to the buyer, cross comparisons are unavoidable. I wont' get into the details as its highly irrelevant and OT on a sales thread, but if you compare Polo and Figo your comparing cars from 2 different segments, and subsequently questioning the premium one commands over the other is baseless. I can bring in the Swift to the Figo comparo and go on with how its seriously overpriced at 1.5l more than the Figo, but these debates are highly subjective and best avoided on a forum like ours.

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Old 10th September 2012, 13:20   #81
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Default Re: August 2012 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

TOI also reports the slowdown in the Indian Automible Industry as the first of its kind in 10 months.

SOURCE: August car sales fall 19 per cent, first in 10 months

Quote:
Car sales in India fell for the first time in 10 months in August, and motorcycle sales fell for the first time since January 2009, an industry body said, underlining fears of sluggish economic growth in Asia's third-largest economy.

Many automakers have been forced into production cuts and temporary shutdowns over the past three months as vehicle demand stalls in a key market for firms trying to offset declining growth in established markets.

"Now we are entering a desperate zone," said Sugato Sen, senior director of the Society of Indian Automobile Manufacturers (SIAM). "If the negative trends continue in September as well, we will have to revise our targets downwards."

India's car industry, a star performer in the country's economic rise, has struggled in since the start of the decade as previously rapid GDP growth slowed, and the central bank raised interest rates to fight inflation.

Automakers sold 118,142 cars in August, down 18.6 percent from a year ago, according to data released on Monday by SIAM.

The group has already cut its fiscal year growth estimate to 9-11 percent from its previous projection of 10-12 percent.

Falling demand for cars was compounded by a factory shutdown at market leader Maruti Suzuki that cost the company $250 million in lost output, and slashed its August sales by 41 percent.

"Even if Maruti had full production, sales would have been down," Sen told reporters in New Delhi.

Sales of motorcycles, which are family vehicles for millions in India, fell 8.5 percent year-on-year to 766,127 vehicles, in an indicator of weak rural demand, which has been hit in recent months by below-average monsoon rains.

Hero MotoCorp, the world's largest manufacturer of two-wheeled vehicles, has reduced production due to the slowdown in demand, its managing director said last week. Hero's sales fell 11.9 percent in August.
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Old 11th September 2012, 10:54   #82
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Default Re: August 2012 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

I do not see the data for the Mahindra Thar? Does it sell at all? I assumed it would at least out sell the Gypsy.
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Old 11th September 2012, 11:10   #83
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Default Re: August 2012 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by eq24 View Post
I am also not saying the polo is a bad car, it just is not worth the price VW asks for it and in no way is it or anything associated with it premium.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shashank.nk View Post
Polo has its shortcomings no doubt. I agree that VW should have given a proper 4 cyl engine and priced it slightly lower. They've corrected the price now and added a few features too. Its not enough yes, but surely we can appreciate a step in the right direction ?
@eq24, I suggest you to take a drive with the polo on the highway. The ride quality and behavior is fantabulously mature, and I would dare say it is best-in-class and beats some higher priced sedans outright! By premium-ness, do you mean the addition of some bells and whistles like ACC, bluetooth connectivity, etc? These things are available on a 5L i10 as well. Polo offers superior build quality, fantastic handling and best-in-class ride quality along with upmarket interiors. Not to forget, it comes from the world's no. 1 automobile house Volkswagen. The premium that they command for the Polo is for the superior engineering that was put into making the product.

The new price seems quite reasonable now for the polo, and they have added some missing things in the facelift, like shashank mentioned. I believe this price correction will see some more sales uplift from this month for the Polo.
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Old 11th September 2012, 11:35   #84
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Default Re: August 2012 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

^^ Correct me if I am wrong; I don't think I10 comes with ACC in any of the models. I20 does but not I10.
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Old 11th September 2012, 11:39   #85
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^^ Correct me if I am wrong; I don't think I10 comes with ACC in any of the models. I20 does but not I10.
My bad, it doesn't , I stand corrected. Thanks

I just mentioned with the intent of saying that a lot of the cheaper cars also might be better equipped with bells and whistles, but not the engineering prowess of the polo.
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Old 11th September 2012, 11:58   #86
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Default Re: August 2012 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

One suggestion/request in the data presentation to make to more readable. Could you consider reverse chronological order. Eg. Instead of "Car Mar12 Apr12 --- Aug12"; can you print the tables as "Car Aug12 July12 .... Mar12". This makes it easy to read the latest month numbers (which will be right next to the model name). The trend graphs etc are OK as they are. Thanks
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Old 11th September 2012, 12:02   #87
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Default Re: August 2012 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis

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Originally Posted by KarthikK View Post
@eq24, I suggest you to take a drive with the polo on the highway. The ride quality and behavior is fantabulously mature, and I would dare say it is best-in-class and beats some higher priced sedans outright! By premium-ness, do you mean the addition of some bells and whistles like ACC, bluetooth connectivity, etc? These things are available on a 5L i10 as well. Polo offers superior build quality, fantastic handling and best-in-class ride quality along with upmarket interiors. Not to forget, it comes from the world's no. 1 automobile house Volkswagen. The premium that they command for the Polo is for the superior engineering that was put into making the product.
I have driven the polo extensively not only in India but on a lot of occasions in the UK and have experienced fit and finish levels much higher than the ones available in India. I will still say it is not a premium car.
Best in class drive ability is a personal metric, I would beg to differ give me a Figo or a Swift and I will show you what drive ability is. Regarding fit and finish is concerned, Yes the Polo has upmarket fittings but its scarce choices on other options bring it down. Why else would they be doing price cuts and giving more features, the sales show as well that the Polo has suffered.

My point is that the Polo is a decent car and I do not want to hurt the sentiments of Polo owners out there, this is just my belief and it is based on metrics I have noticed in developed car markets. You say that Volkswagen is the number 1 automobile house in the world, that does not mean a lot. In India Maruti is the number 1 automobile house does that make the Maruti stable: Reliable Yes, Affordable Yes but Premium NO.
Regarding Superior engineering, do you think that Ford or Toyota or Nissan/Renault or maybe even Suzuki are doling out products with out Superior Engineering and can they not command premiums if they want to, the whole Premium strategy is a greedy initiative by the company to stay alive in our country. That Polo or Vento you buy pays all of VW's bills in India and that is the premium you are paying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shashank.nk View Post

In the hatch segment with so many options available to the buyer, cross comparisons are unavoidable. I wont' get into the details as its highly irrelevant and OT on a sales thread, but if you compare Polo and Figo your comparing cars from 2 different segments, and subsequently questioning the premium one commands over the other is baseless. I can bring in the Swift to the Figo comparo and go on with how its seriously overpriced at 1.5l more than the Figo, but these debates are highly subjective and best avoided on a forum like ours.

Please enlighten me on how these two cars are in different segments, pray tell me is it the engine or the power or the suspension or the materials used or the brand name or just Snobbing rights which defines what a segment is. A hatch is a hatch.
And Sir the international car scene affects our market greatly, just saying that it is an Indian forum, so we should have no consideration for whatever happens abroad is frankly absurd. They are all connected and affect our decision making by varying degrees. I would buy the Fortuner in a heart beat today but think a 1000 times before spending 2.5 times more on a Santa Fe then it is priced elsewhere and this is not just me, one look at the sales chart tells me how much the international scene affects us.

Cheers

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Old 11th September 2012, 12:42   #88
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Regarding Superior engineering, do you think that Ford or Toyota or Nissan/Renault or maybe even Suzuki are doling out products with out Superior Engineering and can they not command premiums if they want to, the whole Premium strategy is a greedy initiative by the company to stay alive in our country. That Polo or Vento you buy pays all of VW's bills in India and that is the premium you are paying.
Some manufacturers can command a premium and some cant! Ford recently tried it with the new Fiesta. It is every bit a good car (can be called a superior-ly engineered car) but is Ford able to sell it? It has even more premium features than the Vento or the City still it does not sell even a tenth of these cars! Similarly Maruti is not able to command any premium as its expensive cars like SX4/Kizashi do not sell despite being pretty good cars.

Thats the way it is. And its not just cars but with everything. The same company (ie VW) is not able to command similar kind of premium on its costlier cars like Passat/Touareg despite them being every bit wonderful cars as that market does not see them as premium cars (that is Audi/BMW/Merc territory) and that is reflected in their sales. Now you can question why should BMW or Merc or Audi be deemed as premium cars? What gives them a right to command the high premiums they do here? And the answer is the same - the people!

Quote:
A hatch is a hatch.
If that is the case then all cars should be priced exactly the same. looks like all of them including your Fords, Hyundais, Hondas etc have been fleecing us for ages!
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Old 11th September 2012, 13:11   #89
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Please enlighten me on how these two cars are in different segments, pray tell me is it the engine or the power or the suspension or the materials used or the brand name or just Snobbing rights which defines what a segment is.
The Figo IIRC, uses SOHC and 2 valves per cylinder. Polo is a DOHC with 4 valves per cylinder, much superior tech. Polo has 7 bhp more with 20nm more torque. Polo has a proper MID, full head-restraints for rear passengers adding to their safety, Steering mounted controls apart from a few other features.
Build quality of the Polo is much better than the Figo. I've heard of owners reporting rattles in the Figo, no such complaints in the Polo though.

Quote:
A hatch is a hatch.
If that's the logic, why buy a diesel hatch at all ? Get the Wagon R. Saves you 2 -2.5 lakhs to negate all your running costs,better resale blah blah. Its peppy enough, has a very good back seat and you get Maruti A.S.S.Why care about highway manners,build quality,technology etc. A hatch is a hatch at the end of the day right ?
I agree all are primarily hatches,but your logic is flawed is you say Figo is as good as i20/Polo/Swift etc.


Quote:
And Sir the international car scene affects our market greatly, just saying that it is an Indian forum, so we should have no consideration for whatever happens abroad is frankly absurd.
I strongly disagree with you on this. The international market affects us yes, but not as significantly as you make it sound. Our market is nowhere as mature as the one's abroad are.
If people cared so much about the International market Skoda would have been a flop and Suzuki wouldn't be selling 1/10th of what they manage.

Anyway, I'm out of here. Don't want to get dragged into pointless debates on a thread meant to discuss sales.

Last edited by shashank.nk : 11th September 2012 at 13:20.
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Old 11th September 2012, 13:43   #90
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Originally Posted by shashank.nk View Post
The Figo IIRC, uses SOHC and 2 valves per cylinder. Polo is a DOHC with 4 valves per cylinder, much superior tech. Polo has 7 bhp more with 20nm more torque. Polo has a proper MID, full head-restraints for rear passengers adding to their safety, Steering mounted controls apart from a few other features.
Build quality of the Polo is much better than the Figo. I've heard of owners reporting rattles in the Figo, no such complaints in the Polo though.



If that's the logic, why buy a diesel hatch at all ? Get the Wagon R. Saves you 2 -2.5 lakhs to negate all your running costs,better resale blah blah. Its peppy enough, has a very good back seat and you get Maruti A.S.S.Why care about highway manners,build quality,technology etc. A hatch is a hatch at the end of the day right ?
I agree all are primarily hatches,but your logic is flawed is you say Figo is as good as i20/Polo/Swift etc.




I strongly disagree with you on this. The international market affects us yes, but not as significantly as you make it sound. Our market is nowhere as mature as the one's abroad are.
If people cared so much about the International market Skoda would have been a flop and Suzuki wouldn't be selling 1/10th of what they manage.

Anyway, I'm out of here. Don't want to get dragged into pointless debates on a thread meant to discuss sales.
I can answer all those points you made up there but I just realised that you are a Polo owner, Nothing I say will mean anything to you as not only do revere VW's philosophy you actually paid money to be a part of it.

It's a good car mate not denying that at all, enjoy your ride.

Cheers
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