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Old 4th October 2012, 10:27   #181
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Default Re: Honda to Launch BRIO Automatic by Diwali EDIT - Clear Pics on Pg 7 & 10

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Originally Posted by Harbir View Post
Looks to me like the Brio AT will be a fully variable CVT. I.e. in D, it will not be limited to 4 or 5 discrete ratios, but will in fact choose whatever ratio the ECU determines appropriate at any given instant
Actually all this just went out the window. It looks like Honda did not bring the CVT to india at all and instead took the City's torque converter AT and plonked it into the Brio.

I'm somewhat disappointed by that because the CVT is a much lighter gearbox and has lesser losses that do not affect FE as much as the torque converter.

The 5 speed regular torque converter maybe good but i was looking forward to the CVT.
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Old 4th October 2012, 10:36   #182
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Default Re: Honda to Launch BRIO Automatic by Diwali EDIT - Clear Pics on Pg 7 & 10

If that is true, I would not be particularly upset because my own interest is an improvement on the 4 speed ATs in the i10, the Swift notchback, the verna, etc. That a 5 speeder AT is going to be available in this class of car for this kind of money is entirely satisfactory to me and I can live without the CVT, even if that would have been ideal.
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Old 4th October 2012, 10:39   #183
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Default Re: Honda to Launch BRIO Automatic by Diwali EDIT - Clear Pics on Pg 7 & 10

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
but i was looking forward to the CVT.
Yeah, me too!

And this does not make any sense whatsoever. When the Brio already has a CVT in Thailand, why would Honda go to all this effort of re-engineering, just to plonk the City's AT box into the Brio?

This almost makes me doubt whether Hormazd has accurate info, or was he talking to the Honda officials over a noisy cellphone connection so he misunderstood them?

Well, atleast can I hope for some new colours?
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Old 4th October 2012, 10:44   #184
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Default Re: Honda to Launch BRIO Automatic by Diwali EDIT - Clear Pics on Pg 7 & 10

They didn't have to re-engineer anything much. The L series engines are all nearly identical, except for differences in stroke and other minor differences. The L15A7 in the City is not very different from the L12B in the Jazz and Brio. The 5 speed AT from the former would not only bolt straight onto the latter, it would also be going into a space designed to accept all the transmissions that the L engines are offered with.

All Honda would have to do is install the appropriate subroutines into the ECU, fine tune with testing, make a new console shifter design, and voila! they have a Brio with a 5 speed automatic.

I can see why they would do that. the cost of installing the AT would be trivial compared to the cost of starting a local production line for the small volume CVT, or paying duties to import it.

Last edited by Harbir : 4th October 2012 at 10:47.
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Old 4th October 2012, 10:48   #185
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Default Re: Honda to Launch BRIO Automatic by Diwali EDIT - Clear Pics on Pg 7 & 10

Hormazd Sorabjee on twitter confirms that the box is 5 speed AT

'Brio auto makes light work of Delhi rush hour traffic. 5-speed auto responsive enough'
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Old 4th October 2012, 10:55   #186
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Default Re: Honda to Launch BRIO Automatic by Diwali EDIT - Clear Pics on Pg 7 & 10

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Originally Posted by Harbir View Post
They didn't have to re-engineer anything much. The L series engines are all nearly identical, except for differences in stroke and other minor differences. The L15A7 in the City is not very different from the L12B in the Jazz and Brio. The 5 speed AT from the former would not only bolt straight onto the latter, it would also be going into a space designed to accept all the transmissions that the L engines are offered with.

All Honda would have to do is install the appropriate subroutines into the ECU, fine tune with testing, make a new console shifter design, and voila! they have a Brio with a 5 speed automatic.

I can see why they would do that. the cost of installing the AT would be trivial compared to the cost of starting a local production line for the small volume CVT, or paying duties to import it.
well then, could they have put in the paddle shifters too ?

how much extra would have that costed...?
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Old 4th October 2012, 11:01   #187
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Default Re: Honda to Launch BRIO Automatic by Diwali EDIT - Clear Pics on Pg 7 & 10

they could have. My guess is they thought that the 5speed vs 4speed step up was enough of a goodie or a treat to those who select the brio AT that it would get by in the market without the paddles.

And trust me, a modern honda 5 speed AT is a HUGE improvement over the older 4 speeders found in the competition. Its not just a matter of the ratios but also the sophistication of the shifting mechanisms, the behaviour of the torque converter, the shift algorithms, etc.

I am telling you again, a honda 5 speed AT is a HUGE leap over the 4speeders its in competition with. Considering the very modest cost increase, I think Honda has made a brilliant decision. WHile our desire is always to have even more (CVT, paddles, etc), I am guessing those who have experience with the existing 4 speed competition are going to fall in love with the Brio AT
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Old 4th October 2012, 11:06   #188
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Default Re: Honda to Launch BRIO Automatic by Diwali EDIT - Clear Pics on Pg 7 & 10

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Originally Posted by blackasta View Post
Hormazd Sorabjee on twitter confirms that the box is 5 speed AT

'Brio auto makes light work of Delhi rush hour traffic. 5-speed auto responsive enough'
Even better is what I will say! Could be that the preset ratios are different from the Automatic (D) ratios.
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Old 4th October 2012, 11:07   #189
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Default Re: Honda to Launch BRIO Automatic by Diwali EDIT - Clear Pics on Pg 7 & 10

how do you explain a 5 speed AT having a D-3-2-1 pattern on the shift lever console? wasn't that pattern the basis of your assertion that its a 4 speed?
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Old 4th October 2012, 11:15   #190
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Default Re: Honda to Launch BRIO Automatic by Diwali EDIT - Clear Pics on Pg 7 & 10

@Harbir; I think you shooit before looking. Please read the second sentence of my post 'Could be that the preset ratios are different from the Automatic (D) ratios.'

However, I a very sceptical of this news, and was it not from Hormazd would have discounted it totally!

He also states it is the same AT is in the City / Civic. Then is the picture wrong? I doubt it but then it will be a fantastic case of smoke-screening by Honda.

Last edited by sgiitk : 4th October 2012 at 11:19.
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Old 4th October 2012, 11:16   #191
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Default Re: Honda to Launch BRIO Automatic by Diwali EDIT - Clear Pics on Pg 7 & 10

Custom duties are much lesser under India-ASEAN and India-South Korea Free Trade Agreement (FTA) and forthcoming India-EU and India-Japan FTA agreements. Custom duty on auto parts like pistons, piston rings, bumpers, gear boxes, radiators etc, for example, would be zero by 2013 under India-ASEAN FTA. Similarly, custom duty on motorcycle parts, parts of engine, piston etc would also come down to five per cent level or zero under India-South Korea FTA.

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/60713/ipl-2012.html

Can't Honda use this to get it at cheaper rates from Thailand?

Pradeep

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Originally Posted by Harbir View Post
I can see why they would do that. the cost of installing the AT would be trivial compared to the cost of starting a local production line for the small volume CVT, or paying duties to import it.
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Old 4th October 2012, 11:29   #192
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Default Re: Honda to Launch BRIO Automatic by Diwali EDIT - Clear Pics on Pg 7 & 10

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
@Harbir; I think you shooit before looking. Please read the second sentence of my post 'Could be that the preset ratios are different from the Automatic (D) ratios.'

However, I a very sceptical of this news, and was it not from Hormazd would have discounted it totally!

He also states it is the same AT is in the City / Civic. Then is the picture wrong? I doubt it but then it will be a fantastic case of smoke-screening by Honda.
The picture of the transmission console posted in Hormazd's tweet is the same as the ones posted by RavenAvi

https://twitter.com/hormazdsorabjee/...09842492039168
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Old 4th October 2012, 11:33   #193
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Default Re: Honda to Launch BRIO Automatic by Diwali EDIT - Clear Pics on Pg 7 & 10

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Originally Posted by Harbir View Post
how do you explain a 5 speed AT having a D-3-2-1 pattern on the shift lever console? wasn't that pattern the basis of your assertion that its a 4 speed?
His tweet has the same pic as Ravenavi!!! I am foxed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackasta View Post
The picture of the transmission console posted in Hormazd's tweet is the same as the ones posted by RavenAvi
Yes, I have also checked, and tweeted him about this.

Someone is pulling a fast one !

I think we have to wait to see the beastie in the flesh. I doubt whether the markup being quoted will support a 5-speed City transmission.

afaik all ATs in India are imports (as are a lot of MTs) as is the 1.4 Gamma in the i20 AT.
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Old 4th October 2012, 11:36   #194
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Default Re: Honda to Launch BRIO Automatic by Diwali EDIT - Clear Pics on Pg 7 & 10

i can see some members happy about the gearbox being the "5 speed auto from the city" while some members wishing it was the "CVT".

Could someone briefly put in words how the Indian Brio AT would compare to the Thai Brio AT...?

How would the driving characteristics differ between them due to one having the 5 speed auto whereas another having the CVT ? Pros & Cons of both.
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Old 4th October 2012, 11:42   #195
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Default Re: Honda to Launch BRIO Automatic by Diwali EDIT - Clear Pics on Pg 7 & 10

Dont know if its been shared before. HEre is a Review by Autocar. No CVT, its the 5 speed auto of city with different ratios. http://www.autocarindia.com/Review/3...est-drive.aspx

They seem to be pretty impressed.

Last edited by vibbs : 4th October 2012 at 11:43.
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