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Old 10th September 2012, 19:02   #121
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Default Re: The Maruti Way : Worker's side of the story

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Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
A skilled worker in UP on an average is paid approx. Rs. 6500/- per month - http://www.paycheck.in/main/salary/m.../uttar-pradesh . Majority of workers in India are being paid half to a third of what Maruti workers are getting. The working conditions on an assembly line are quite similar in many other industries like bottle packing, pharmaceuticals etc. and overall facilities cannot match those at Maruti. The Maruti worker is still cribbing and resorting to violence and lawlessness is an undeniable truth and cannot be forgiven so easily.
Reminds me of the situation during the commonwealth games an important guy said that the accommodation provided to foreign athletes are very good but their standards of hygiene are different from ours. Companies like MSIL are expected to set standards. Abysmal working conditions existing in the sector is not an excuse for not providing good working conditions. People don't turn violent/resort to violence overnight. I'm not saying the workers are angels but this unfortunate incident could've been avoided if MSIL magt. was a little empathetic.
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Old 10th September 2012, 19:04   #122
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Default Re: The Maruti Way : Worker's side of the story

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I wouldn't blame Maruti if they moved out of Manesar/Gurgaon and shifted to Gujrat, but I think it's a gallant gesture they have declared they won't be moving out of Manesar. I doubt how many companies would stick to their principles in such a case. To take a rough analogy, the Tatas moved out of Singur in the face of the growing unrest (I am not blaming Tatas, but just want to underline the conviction of the Maruti Suzuki management).
Do you think its a gallant gesture or just an attempt to stay there because they have the right 'connections'? If they move to a new state, they will have to meet the expectations of a labour force that may be even more expensive for them than here.

I dont support the violence in any way.

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Originally Posted by .sushilkumar View Post
I respected their culture and hence included the word when ever i address them but never listen to that word included in my name. wan ;t i suppose to get same respect from them as well .

if they want indian;s to work Japanese way in india, i am sorry it does n ;t work like that. they must respect local cultural sentiments and plan their strategy accordingly.
Whenever Indians work elsewhere, we are expected to integrate. And whenever someone comes in here, why dont they learn our way of working and adapt themselves?

The reason lies in the fact that we dont respect ourselves. There will always be some oversmart fellow who will promise to the senior management that he/ she will take care of the issue and then come and rant at his reportees left, right & centre. We are used to treating each other like animals, beasts of burden. Till the day we respect each other as humans & individuals, no law is going to save us. The law is what we aspire to be as people and what we want it to control.
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Old 10th September 2012, 19:08   #123
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Default Re: The Maruti Way : Worker's side of the story

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Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
A skilled worker in UP on an average is paid approx. Rs. 6500/- per month - .
How about the living costs , rents etc ? Anyway the question is not about what they were paying but why exactly Maruti-Suzuki management decided to buy off the union leaders of last years strike ?
Why in their infinite wisdom they did not recognize the union and did not implement the tripitrate agreement ?

Workers do go on strike everywhere in world including Japan and organizations need to learn to deal with them in more mature and sustainbale manner.


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So called " Japanese principals " were long thrown out of window. They were thrown out of window during 90 's when capitalistic economies begin their downhill journey .

IMO Japanese culture is deeply Autocratic in nature. i have worked closely for some 3 - 4 months in tokyo and i was told to Include "san" when ever i am addressing some body . no problem with that But that shows how much receptive they are to Other;s culture. I respected their culture and hence included the word when ever i address them but never listen to that word included in my name. wan ;t i suppose to get same respect from them as well .
I cocur 100% to this view after my 4 visits to Tokyo. There is nothing like success and Japanese management was hailed through 70s and 80s as if the sucess of Japan ( and later Korea) was of their making.

But in reality the success of Japan has analogous to sucess of Indian IT industry that is both were due to reasons extranious to the country and was fueled due to circumstances.

All these management books totally ignored that Japnese economy got the boost when Toyota and others got orders from US for supplies for Korean war and till mid 70s Japan was rewarded handsomly by US for being a close ally in cold war.
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Old 10th September 2012, 19:09   #124
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Default Re: The Maruti Way : Worker's side of the story

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Originally Posted by dkaile View Post
A skilled worker in UP on an average is paid approx. Rs. 6500/- per month - http://www.paycheck.in/main/salary/m.../uttar-pradesh . Majority of workers in India are being paid half to a third of what Maruti workers are getting.
An average Indian workers in MSIL, who is required to work And is working in Japanese way get;s a paltry 7000 to 8000 rs per month on contractual basis with no social security net . Given your logic, they should be earning equal to what workers in Japan with all the facilities thrown in. So please stop comparing what a worker in UP . Stats like Posted on paycheck can be easily manipulated.

As for Lawlessness goes, even i Also don ;t support that But first question is " Do the law exist for those with Right connections and moolah" .
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Old 10th September 2012, 19:13   #125
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Originally Posted by sourabhzen
But yes, knowing the kind of youth employed in these factories, it is highly possible that the mob led by union leaders killed the manager.
That particular day's incidents did not lead to the death of the manager. It was a result of simmering tension over the years. Maruti should take the blame that they did not address them correctly. Imagine what will happen if every company in the country approaches labor relations the way Maruti has been doing. I dread to think of consequences.

Another point about the death is that CCTV cameras were switched off, surely deliberately by the management. WHY?
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Old 10th September 2012, 19:18   #126
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Default Re: The Maruti Way : Worker's side of the story

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Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
I cocur 100% to this view after my 4 visits to Tokyo. There is nothing like success and Japanese management was hailed through 70s and 80s as if the sucess of Japan ( and later Korea) was of their making.

But in reality the success of Japan has analogous to sucess of Indian IT industry that is both were due to reasons extranious to the country and was fueled due to circumstances.
Forget about Japanese management principles. Read up on the revolution they created in Manufacturing techniques. Read up on stuff like 'Single Minute Exchange of Die', 'Taguchi Principle' etc. These were truly revolutionary and not fluff like new management principles which crop up every other week.
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Old 10th September 2012, 19:26   #127
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Default Re: The Maruti Way : Worker's side of the story

I am a proud Indian, but.. the reasons put forth by the Union don't seem logical, if not acceptable.

From the blog a few things that are striking:

- Start in the Morning: The blog cries of torture when the timings were advanced (so that workers don't get held up in traffic!). Now, when the shift is 8 hrs, when one starts early, won't finish also be sooner? (Heck, kids start school at 8 and this complains of staring working at 6!).

- "To Err is human". Missing to put brake nut may be an "human" error, but can cost someone who paid a significant of life earning the car, lose his life.

- No break for bath rooms? There are two tea breaks and one lunch break. That makes it 3 during the shift. Assuming one uses rest room just before and just after the shift, makes it 5 times in 8 hours. Unless someone is sick, don't we think it normal?

- while the blog does complain about cars/worker being increased, the missing note on robots is striking.

One can keep adding, but it may not add any value to anyone.

Anyways, we look at it, I don't think anyone can justify work environments. This is the way things work in most of profit making (blue collar) companies.

And, violence is not a course even when there is no course. This incident has put a country, which won independence by non-violence in deep shame.
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Old 10th September 2012, 19:29   #128
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Default Re: The Maruti Way : Worker's side of the story

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Originally Posted by Hayek View Post
I don't want to turn this into a personal debate - you are certainly entitled to your views even if I think they are misguided. However, the reference to Calcutta was not intended as a personal reference to you, but as a reference to the communist philosophy that prevails in that city (where I have lived for 2 years as a student, and also spent more time in on work than in any other non Bombay city) - no offence intended at a personal level.
Its good that we respectfully agree to disagree though I would like to point out that it would be grossly incorrect to think that communist philosophy prevails in Kolkata. As you find my views misguided, quite similarly I find yours and these theories from this particular school of economics pretty incredible rivaling that of Hogwarts. This would be my last post here on this thread since this debate will go on and on with each one of us holding on to our points of view specially with respect to this episode. Only time will show if the actions of MSIL fix things in the future.

Last edited by samarjitdhar : 10th September 2012 at 19:56.
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Old 10th September 2012, 19:38   #129
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Default Re: The Maruti Way : Worker's side of the story

Let me clarify that I dont support violence in any shape, size or form.

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Originally Posted by babu.sundaram View Post
And, violence is not a course even when there is no course. This incident has put a country, which won independence by non-violence in deep shame.
In my opinion, we did not win independence by non violence. If that was the case, it could have happened at any time between 1900 -1939 and we would not have had to wait until 1947.

The only reason - in my humble opinion - why the British left India is because they could not afford (after the Second World War) to put in any more effort to rule these parts, relative to what they were earning from us. Return on Investment was poor, probably even negative. They had already taken what they wanted to anyway.

I could also go on to debate why the British rule was actually beneficial, but that would be moving onto another topic, which I can gladly continue via PM or another thread if you (or anyone else) chooses to.
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Old 10th September 2012, 20:00   #130
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Default Re: The Maruti Way : Worker's side of the story

I think it's important that stories like this emerge and are discussed in the mainstream media. The problem is that we are often exposed to just one side of the story.

I don't agree with everything the workers quoted in this story have said. But for that matter I don't buy all the stories that Maruti Suzuki management is feeding the press either.

The workers had very real grievances against the management, which the management failed to appreciate the seriousness of in time. Let this be a learning and at least keep us alert enough to avoid such tragedies in the future.
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Old 10th September 2012, 20:27   #131
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Default Re: The Maruti Way : Worker's side of the story

The bigger question in my view is if this is how things are in say Japan, Korea and China as well. From what I understand of the chinese way of doing things this is exactly how they would be in china as well. And if a guy putting bolts suddenly go a box of bolts that was slightly different then he would continue to put the different bolts on the same part without questioning things (unlike an Indian worker - who would point it out - leading to better quality in some ways).

Not taking a stand on these conditions being acceptable / unacceptable - good or bad. The question is also of how they compare with other job / work opportunities that were available to the workers earlier.
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Old 10th September 2012, 20:50   #132
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Default Re: The Maruti Way : Worker's side of the story

I take this article with a bucket of salt. Yes, Industrial relations are always tense and there is room for improvement but you need to keep in mind that a behemoth like Maruti simply cannot run a sweat shop for so many years and get away with it. Heck, you think militant trade unions like INTUC, CITU, BMU (take your pick) would leave any stone untured to make inroads into this showpiece company and try and extract the last frop of blood from the management? remmember, not too long back, teh govt was a 50 % shareholder in Maruti, and so, given its socialist leanings, there is no way somehting this extreme would be happening there.

There is more than a grain of exaggeration in this article.
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Old 10th September 2012, 21:31   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
I take this article with a bucket of salt. Yes, Industrial relations are always tense and there is room for improvement but you need to keep in mind that a behemoth like Maruti simply cannot run a sweat shop for so many years and get away with it. Heck, you think militant trade unions like INTUC, CITU, BMU (take your pick) would leave any stone untured to make inroads into this showpiece company and try and extract the last frop of blood from the management? remmember, not too long back, teh govt was a 50 % shareholder in Maruti, and so, given its socialist leanings, there is no way somehting this extreme would be happening there.

There is more than a grain of exaggeration in this article.
Why is it that there are no unions in software companies ? If the trade unions are so millitant ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by babu.sundaram View Post
I am a proud Indian, but.. the reasons put forth by the Union don't seem logical, if not acceptable.

From the blog a few things that are striking:

- Start in the Morning: The blog cries of torture when the timings were advanced (so that workers don't get held up in traffic!). Now, when the shift is 8 hrs, when one starts early, won't finish also be sooner? (Heck, kids start school at 8 and this complains of staring working at 6!).

- "To Err is human". Missing to put brake nut may be an "human" error, but can cost someone who paid a significant of life earning the car, lose his life.

- No break for bath rooms? There are two tea breaks and one lunch break. That makes it 3 during the shift. Assuming one uses rest room just before and just after the shift, makes it 5 times in 8 hours. Unless someone is sick, don't we think it normal?

- while the blog does complain about cars/worker being increased, the missing note on robots is striking.

One can keep adding, but it may not add any value to anyone.

Anyways, we look at it, I don't think anyone can justify work environments. This is the way things work in most of profit making (blue collar) companies.

And, violence is not a course even when there is no course. This incident has put a country, which won independence by non-violence in deep shame.

Most of us do not have an insight or inside information to comment . If the worker failed to put a nut into the brake .. there are supervisors and QC dept to check .

Regarding the break timings .. I guess the worker was trying to point out the strict working conditions at the company rather than complain .

Yes , i do agree (Blue collar ) companies get their profits by squeezing workers , under the pretext of offering jobs get govt incentives and rob everyone including the general population of their rights .

Last edited by noopster : 11th September 2012 at 06:42.
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Old 10th September 2012, 21:40   #134
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Default Re: The Maruti Way : Worker's side of the story

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Why is it that there are no unions in software companies ? If the trade unions are so millitant ?
That is becuase the average techie does not fall in teh definition of "workman" as defined under the workman's compensation act. Under the Industrial Disputes Act and the Trade Unions Act, a recongnised trade union can only be for workment- the same reason why trade unions do not exist for managerial staff in factories.

Also, although not stricltly relevant, pls note that software cmpanies are governed by the Shops and Establishments Act and not the Factories Act.
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Old 10th September 2012, 21:55   #135
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In my opinion, we did not win independence by non violence. If that was the case, it could have happened at any time between 1900 -1939 and we would not have had to wait until 1947.
Unless there are figures to support this claim of ROI for British, it is not convincing.
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Originally Posted by greatmana2000 View Post
Why is it that there are no unions in software companies ? If the trade unions are so millitant ?
Unions are required to put forward employees demand to management. In IT, management negate the need of union by having employee friendly policies and providing a channel to the employees to get their grievences addressed.
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