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Old 10th October 2007, 23:36   #61
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Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
Are you sure that the same 1.3 engine is to be used on the swift as well as the SX4 ? I don't think so.

Rumours say the Indian SX4 is likely to get the same 1.3 MJTD with variable turbo. The one that is found on the Linea.
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Old 11th October 2007, 00:47   #62
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Originally Posted by burnt. View Post
Rumours say the Indian SX4 is likely to get the same 1.3 MJTD with variable turbo. The one that is found on the Linea.
And those rumors are pretty much on target. Whatever Maruti does they will have to make do with the 1.3MJD. AFAIK Fiat decided pretty early on that they will sell the 1.3MJD to make money while the higher end ones they will retain exclusively for their own usage. And it is not only about Maruti but true for others as well, who buy the engine tech from Fiat.So the other side of the coin is that while the competition will huff and puff with similar 1.3MJD in their cars Fiat may unfurl a 1.6MJD and even a 1.9MJD if required.
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Old 11th October 2007, 12:34   #63
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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
And those rumors are pretty much on target. Whatever Maruti does they will have to make do with the 1.3MJD. AFAIK Fiat decided pretty early on that they will sell the 1.3MJD to make money while the higher end ones they will retain exclusively for their own usage. And it is not only about Maruti but true for others as well, who buy the engine tech from Fiat.So the other side of the coin is that while the competition will huff and puff with similar 1.3MJD in their cars Fiat may unfurl a 1.6MJD and even a 1.9MJD if required.
FIAT has already licensed manufacturing rights to Maruti/Suzuki for JTD 1.6 and 1.9. As per announced plans, Fiat India will only be manufacturing JTD 1.3 at Ranjangaon, besides the new petrol 1.2 and 1.4 from FIRE family.

Check this:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...tml#post369651 (Widest Range of FIAT Diesels - From Maruti-Suzuki)
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Old 11th October 2007, 13:14   #64
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Originally Posted by directinjection View Post
FIAT has already licensed manufacturing rights to Maruti/Suzuki for JTD 1.6 and 1.9. As per announced plans, Fiat India will only be manufacturing JTD 1.3 at Ranjangaon, besides the new petrol 1.2 and 1.4 from FIRE family.

Check this:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...tml#post369651 (Widest Range of FIAT Diesels - From Maruti-Suzuki)
Maybe... but then the link at the GlobalSuzuki is to a press release which says they signed an LOI there is a lot of ground to cover even after an LOI has been signed. Afterall it is just an intent. LOI is followed by the actual terms and conditions negotiations and an MOU. Is there any news on that front. Remember that link is pretty old. About 3 years (its a 2005 release).

On the other hand one of the Fiat bosses who came here earlier this year (or was it the end 2006?) said that they intend to retain the higher engines for their own captive consumptions while licensing out the smaller sized engines. So they may have had a change in business strategy since then.

Also, Fiat is launching the Tata pickups in Latin American countries with the 2.3mjd engine.

Only time will tell how Fiat plans to come out and fight competition.
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Old 11th October 2007, 13:26   #65
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I am certainly not very happy with the fact that Tata Indica is getting the 1.3MJTD. The cab drivers are more than a handful right now with the current engine. I think they'll be unstoppable with 75bhp/20kgm ;-( I am sure the accident figure are going to rise. It is a scary thought to imagine 100+bhp Sumos and MJTD Indicas. They'll soon rule
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Old 11th October 2007, 14:05   #66
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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
Maybe... but then the link at the GlobalSuzuki is to a press release which says they signed an LOI there is a lot of ground to cover even after an LOI has been signed. Afterall it is just an intent. LOI is followed by the actual terms and conditions negotiations and an MOU. Is there any news on that front. Remember that link is pretty old. About 3 years (its a 2005 release).
If there are no news reports regarding the progress post the LOI, there have been no reports about the demise of LOI either.

There are reports saying that the Manesar plant with annual capacity of 3,00,000 engines will be Suzuki's sole diesel engine plant in the world and will supply to Suzuki plants worldwide. Considering that the JTD 1.9 equips the diesel SX4 hatch made in Hungary, it seems reasonable to assume (and also conclude, basis the media reports in existence so far) that a huge investment like that is meant for making more than one engine.

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On the other hand one of the Fiat bosses who came here earlier this year (or was it the end 2006?) said that they intend to retain the higher engines for their own captive consumptions while licensing out the smaller sized engines. So they may have had a change in business strategy since then.
He said so publicly? Are there any press reports confirming that statement?

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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
Also, Fiat is launching the Tata pickups in Latin American countries with the 2.3mjd engine.
That does not necessarily imply that Fiat's other engines will not be made by MUL.

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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
Only time will tell how Fiat plans to come out and fight competition.
'Fighting' does not seem to be an appropriate word for a car maker planning to sell 1,00,000 cars in India, given that Maruti will be making 9,00,000 cars and Hyundai India 6,00,000 every year once their expansions are complete. 'Surviving' competition is more like it.

Cheers!
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Old 11th October 2007, 14:58   #67
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Originally Posted by sushanthr77 View Post
I am certainly not very happy with the fact that Tata Indica is getting the 1.3MJTD. The cab drivers are more than a handful right now with the current engine. I think they'll be unstoppable with 75bhp/20kgm ;-( I am sure the accident figure are going to rise. It is a scary thought to imagine 100+bhp Sumos and MJTD Indicas. They'll soon rule
Well, Indica is fast becoming an umbrella term. The way I heard it, Indicabs and the current Indicas will stay the way they are. Then there will probably be another flavor of the Indicas which will sport the Tata Dicor engines. And then there will be an even bigger car to take on the mantle of the premium hatchback which will have the 1.3mjd engine in it. This will be presumably the X1 platform that Tata plans to roll out soon.

So cabbies will keep running the current Indicabs. Of course nothing stops them from buying a X1 and running it as a cab. But then nothing stops them from buying a F1 car either
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Old 11th October 2007, 15:04   #68
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But then nothing stops them from buying a F1 car either

an F1 car has only one seat . so no F1 cabs
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Old 11th October 2007, 15:08   #69
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Originally Posted by directinjection View Post
If there are no news reports regarding the progress post the LOI, there have been no reports about the demise of LOI either.
No definitely not. But then considering that its a pretty old LOI at least some movement should have been visible after 3 years.

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Originally Posted by directinjection View Post
Considering that the JTD 1.9 equips the diesel SX4 hatch made in Hungary, it seems reasonable to assume (and also conclude, basis the media reports in existence so far) that a huge investment like that is meant for making more than one engine.
Oh! SX4 in hungary uses that engine? I was not aware of it. Then of course Maruti can also use it. Fiat can not selectively sell it to some and not to others. But then since Maruti is the worldwide suppliers for Suzuki's diesel initiatives and considering that Maruti is not making the 1.9mjd as yet who is supplying the engine to Suzuki for the Hungarian venture?

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He said so publicly? Are there any press reports confirming that statement?
Yes he did... I mean he did not whisper it in my ears Lol. I read it on one of the web portals, only that I can not recall where. In fact I was trying to Google it out but could not.

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That does not necessarily imply that Fiat's other engines will not be made by MUL.
No it does not. That I only mentioned because you said the Tata-Fiat combine will only use the 1.3mjd in all their cars.

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Originally Posted by directinjection View Post
'Fighting' does not seem to be an appropriate word for a car maker planning to sell 1,00,000 cars in India, given that Maruti will be making 9,00,000 cars and Hyundai India 6,00,000 every year once their expansions are complete. 'Surviving' competition is more like it.
True. They need to survive first before they start fighting it out. And going by their current tardiness I do not know how successful that will be.
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Old 11th October 2007, 15:14   #70
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Suzuki uses Fiat's 1.9 JTD 8V 120 bhp engine, which Fiat is planning to withdraw from the market once their 1.6 JTD 16v engine is ready. 1.6 JTD apparently comes in three guises, 105 bhp, 120 bhp and 150 bhp. 1.6 is supposed to arrive some time in another 2-3 months.
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Old 11th October 2007, 15:30   #71
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But then since Maruti is the worldwide suppliers for Suzuki's diesel initiatives and considering that Maruti is not making the 1.9mjd as yet who is supplying the engine to Suzuki for the Hungarian venture?
Fiat of course!

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No it does not. That I only mentioned because you said the Tata-Fiat combine will only use the 1.3mjd in all their cars.
I was referring to Tata-Fiat's plans for India, not the other markets. Fiat engine for TL pick-up to be launched in Argentina will be sourced from Fiat's local plant where the truck will be assembled. The pick-up with Fiat engine will be sold as Fiat, not Tata, although a version with Tata engine will also be sold side by side and will be called Tata. Confusing, isn't it!

Last edited by directinjection : 11th October 2007 at 15:34.
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Old 11th October 2007, 16:37   #72
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And those rumors are pretty much on target. Whatever Maruti does they will have to make do with the 1.3MJD. AFAIK Fiat decided pretty early on that they will sell the 1.3MJD to make money while the higher end ones they will retain exclusively for their own usage. And it is not only about Maruti but true for others as well, who buy the engine tech from Fiat.So the other side of the coin is that while the competition will huff and puff with similar 1.3MJD in their cars Fiat may unfurl a 1.6MJD and even a 1.9MJD if required.

According to wikipedia the 1.9 MJTD is used in the following non-Fiat cars:
So they have already let other manufacturers make use of the 1.9 MJTD.
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Old 12th October 2007, 16:08   #73
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On the other hand one of the Fiat bosses who came here earlier this year (or was it the end 2006?) said that they intend to retain the higher engines for their own captive consumptions while licensing out the smaller sized engines. So they may have had a change in business strategy since then.
Here's an update. The signing of Tata-Fiat JV was announced yesterday. Still no mention of the bigger engines; they'll only make JTD 1.3 and FIRE 1.2 and 1.4. Check this:

Tata Motors - Media Centre

Last edited by directinjection : 12th October 2007 at 16:10.
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Old 12th October 2007, 17:03   #74
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According to wikipedia the 1.9 MJTD is used in the following non-Fiat cars:So they have already let other manufacturers make use of the 1.9 MJTD.
Fiat licensed to GM for 1.3MJTD and made deal for other engine supplies. No wonder, all the above brands are directly owned by GM or big Stake held by GM.
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Old 21st November 2007, 15:53   #75
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I was not aware that VW is also planning to use Fiat diesel engines. Is the TOI guy making it up or is it a fact?

Commoditisation of car engines in top gear- Automobiles-Auto-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times
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