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Old 14th September 2012, 10:45   #1
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Default VW considering Compact Sedan. New 1.5 Diesel codenamed EA189

VW is actively considering a sub 4 meter compact sedan in India. Also plans to replace multiple 1.2 and 1.6 litre diesels with an all new 1.5 litre diesel derived from current 1.6 diesel. This India specific engine family has been codenamed as EA189.

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Europe's largest carmaker plans to develop a sub-4 metre notchback or sedan on the 'Up!' platform and a 1.5 litre diesel engine codenamed 'EA 189', which is a derivative of the existing 1.6 litre engine, to benefit from the small cars excise duty of 12%, at least three people familiar with Volkswagen India's plans told ET.

Link:http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/16391147.cms

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Old 14th September 2012, 10:57   #2
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Default Re: VW considering Compact Sedan. New 1.5 Diesel codenamed EA189

Such news shows how serious VW is about India. These guys are really moving fast and Up! introduction will establish them as a mass player. It will be interesting to see how this EU manufacturer will control prices in this segment.
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Old 14th September 2012, 11:00   #3
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Default Re: VW considering Compact Sedan. New 1.5 Diesel codenamed EA189

Now i see some seriousness in VW india group.

The new formula would work wonders only if they price it up accordingly.
If the pricing is not proper, it would go the Polo Way.

Also they need to improve the quality of ***. i believe they are in the wrong direction when it comes to service. This should be corrected ASAP.

Let us hope for a good car from VW which gives the following
Mileage like Swift/Indica/Beat
Good Driving dynamics like Punto
Bundles of features of I20
Interior space as if in Tata indica
Meaty wheels as if in Punto sport
and a price of Ritz...
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Old 14th September 2012, 11:02   #4
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Default Re: VW considering Compact Sedan. New 1.5 Diesel codenamed EA189

This new compact sedan will definitely push VW as a major player in the Indian market with the masses. Also, with this new Compact sedan, VW would also need to pull up its socks considerably as far as its unpredictable Service Stations, labor & spare parts prices are concerned.

Though i hope the new 1.5 diesel engine continues to give the same level of performance as the current 1.6 diesel as the current 1.6 engine is the one lending an edge to VW in case of Vento for sure !!!
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Old 14th September 2012, 11:18   #5
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Default Re: VW considering Compact Sedan. New 1.5 Diesel codenamed EA189

Encouraging news but 2-3 years is a long time away. I don't see VW emerging as a mass market player unless they change their attitude - both before and after sales. , Their sales numbers are nothing to talk about - despite have competent vehicles such as Vento and Jetta.

Talks about a 1.5L diesel engine have been doing the rounds for long. VW should have upgraded the Polo diesel with this engine long back. The Up should have made it here by now. The market situation would have changed in 2-3 years and may not make the Up a viable choice unless VW gets the pricing and attitude spot on.
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Old 14th September 2012, 11:40   #6
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Default Re: VW considering Compact Sedan. New 1.5 Diesel codenamed EA189

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Old 14th September 2012, 16:28   #7
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Default Re: VW considering Compact Sedan. New 1.5 Diesel codenamed EA189

My take is different here. I don't understand why a 'compact sedan' is required when they already have Vento. Are they trying to go one segment below (same as Swift Dzire etc.), and capture the market using a sedan? Why is a sedan required? I read in ET that some other players are also trying to do that. I don't quite understand why.

Also, I find this VW strategy to be rather strange - launching the same car from different brands. e.g. Vento and Rapid. Some other players are doing the same thing - Sunny and Scala. Have they done some kind of a survey in India to come up with such plans? I was personally disappointed with Rapid. There's hardly anything to tell it differently (and I don't mean external looks) from Vento. My expectation was Rapid would be a different car, this re-badging thing I have not been able to digest.

Don't mean to offend the owners of any of these cars mentioned above.
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Old 14th September 2012, 16:56   #8
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Default Re: VW considering Compact Sedan. New 1.5 Diesel codenamed EA189

In India, a car with a boot is still considered a prestige symbol and is placed on a higher pedastal than a hatchback....even if the compact sedan is cheaper than a decent hatchback. This mentality will take a while to get corrected.
That is why most of the manufacturers are jumping into the sub-4 metre compact bandwagon.
I too hope VW prices it sanely or else, go the new Ford Fiesta way.

Last edited by anuragn : 14th September 2012 at 17:00.
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Old 14th September 2012, 17:00   #9
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Default Re: VW considering Compact Sedan. New 1.5 Diesel codenamed EA189

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tats07 View Post
and capture the market using a sedan? Why is a sedan required? I read in ET that some other players are also trying to do that. I don't quite understand why.
I agree to that. Plus another car in the same bracket means just more confusion related to the Polo.
First and foremost they need to build up a significant network of A.S.S and W/S's. They're probably trying to play it safe and avoid Skoda like W/S issues but it's been too long already.


Quote:
Also, I find this VW strategy to be rather strange - launching the same car from different brands. e.g. Vento and Rapid.
Look at it this way: Say Vento eats 3 out of Verna's market share of 10. Comes the Rapid and it eats out 1 from the Vento and 2 from the Verna. So total damage to competition from the VW group (who own Skoda) = 2+3 = 5. You catch the drift I guess.
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Old 14th September 2012, 17:20   #10
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Default Re: VW considering Compact Sedan. New 1.5 Diesel codenamed EA189

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Originally Posted by negativeH View Post
Look at it this way: Say Vento eats 3 out of Verna's market share of 10. Comes the Rapid and it eats out 1 from the Vento and 2 from the Verna. So total damage to competition from the VW group (who own Skoda) = 2+3 = 5. You catch the drift I guess.
Agree. But I still find this a mindless way to approach a market. I'm sure Indians would've given Rapid even better sales had it been a better product/improved product compared to Vento. I personally thought it'd be a scaled down version of Laura with a scaled down TSI and the price of a City high-end trim maybe. I believe that would've really dented the Verna's and the City's sales.
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Old 14th September 2012, 17:26   #11
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Default Re: VW considering Compact Sedan. New 1.5 Diesel codenamed EA189

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Originally Posted by negativeH View Post
Look at it this way: Say Vento eats 3 out of Verna's market share of 10. Comes the Rapid and it eats out 1 from the Vento and 2 from the Verna. So total damage to competition from the VW group (who own Skoda) = 2+3 = 5. You catch the drift I guess.
Aplology, but, I didn't got your above point as the figures/ ratios are grossly incorrect. Verna sells more than 5K units & Vento & Rapid both manage 4-4.5K units on a monthly basis. In fact, their sales are on downward spiral since the last 6 months & Verna's have been consistently at the top. I believe it is the competition that inflicting damages to VW group products & not vice-versa. This is despite the German build quality, superb ride & quality of interiors. VW Group definitely need to pull up its socks to beat Toyota in numbers game.

Coming back to the compact sedan, I welcome this plan as it would bring more sales & per unit profits (courtesy the reduced excise tax on smaller cars) to VW group, but, will it be a sedan actually, & not a hatch like the Octavia was (though I admit not many Indians care until the car has a protruding rear end).
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Old 14th September 2012, 17:30   #12
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Default Re: VW considering Compact Sedan. New 1.5 Diesel codenamed EA189

I only hope they use the 1.5 diesel engine in their polo as well. The 1.2 is horribly underpowered. If it is incompatible there is always the option of the 1.4 tdi engine as used in other polos globally.

I don't understand this whole Indian obsession with the sedan but I guess VW has to follow local market trends and thus build cars. A perfect example is the original beetle they built for 50 years in Latin America.
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Old 14th September 2012, 17:32   #13
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Default Re: VW considering Compact Sedan. New 1.5 Diesel codenamed EA189

[quote=Tats07;2903666]Agree. But I still find this a mindless way to approach a market. I'm sure Indians would've given Rapid even better sales had it been a better product/improved product compared to Vento.[quote]

It's a necessity of the modern market to bombard the customer with choices. I know many who find the Vento better looking than the Rapid and the other way around and then bought the car. It's probably got to do with a market study or theory. But at the time of its launch I liked the concept of Rapid a lot.
You're comparing the Vento D to Verna D and there comes a cheaper rebadged Vento: Rapid (it was 'bout 30K cheaper at that time I guess), the human mind will turn to it.

Quote:
I personally thought it'd be a scaled down version of Laura with a scaled down TSI and the price of a City high-end trim maybe. I believe that would've really dented the Verna's and the City's sales.
Yeah, I like your idea. Had VW/Skoda cashed in on the Laura image and projected Rapid as a trimmed Laura, it could have been pretty sweet.

There are rumors though that the next gen Vento/Rapid will have the TSI's. Lets wait and watch.
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Old 14th September 2012, 17:34   #14
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Default Re: VW considering Compact Sedan. New 1.5 Diesel codenamed EA189

The Polo badly needs a good diesel engine. The recent revision has got most of the goodies one might need, but the 1.2 TDi does not do the car justice.
But two to three years down the line, diesel prices may get deregulated, and only genuinely high mileage users might be going for diesels, like yore. These sure must be confusing times for the auto industry.

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Originally Posted by gemi_kk View Post

Let us hope for a good car from VW which gives the following
Mileage like Swift/Indica/Beat
Good Driving dynamics like Punto
Bundles of features of I20
Interior space as if in Tata indica
Meaty wheels as if in Punto sport
and a price of Ritz...

VW actually does have a hatch that has all you want, except the price of a Ritz. They call it the Golf. And while you were hoping, you might as well have hoped that they give it away for free.
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Old 14th September 2012, 17:48   #15
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Default Re: VW considering Compact Sedan. New 1.5 Diesel codenamed EA189

We had enough of VW with it's branding, unique advertising and multiple pages of advertisement about their inventions. They have a gem of an engine though petrol - Volkswagen 1.4-litre TSI Twincharger and why they are not delivering it here. If you are serious about the market and need to place your brand as premium then you should also give us the best technology. If they do that then i would be their first customer to be driving away their car with TSI turbocharged engine.

Also there are talks that they will be delivering TSI with one Turbo charger and not two to reduce the costs which is not a good strategy.
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