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Old 17th September 2012, 08:47   #31
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Default Re: Diesel Price Hike - end of the market skew in favour of diesels?

All of this discussion will become a bit outdated after 'another' reduction in diesel subsidy. That is what it is, a reduction in diesel subsidy. Anyone who calls it a hike in price is blatantly ignoring the unfair discount that they have been getting at the cost of other tax payers.

I would like to see subsidy in fuel removed entirely.
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Old 17th September 2012, 09:25   #32
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Default Re: Diesel Price Hike - end of the market skew in favour of diesels?

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Originally Posted by blackasta View Post
Well - I have a problem when I drive my i10 on unsubzidized petrol and a VP of my company getting multiple times my salary enjoys subsidized diesel in his 5 series. Its up to the govt. how they want to end this skew - price based / use based tax on diesel cars is an option, if diesel is to be kept subsidized for truck/rail/farm usage.
Eg: An yearly 'subsidy refund tax' can be charged on diesel cars for personal use, which shall be based on the price/size/engine size of the vehicle. Just a thought.
Differentiating premium diesel cars and asking them to pay more is a skewed idea in itself

Many people complain about diesel cars having an advantage because of diesel being cheaper. When you had a chance to buy the diesel car in the first place which as a matter of fact is available across all segments, why make a hue and cry after you buy a petrol car.

What I would like to see is that the manufacturers should reduce the price of diesel cars and the government should increase the price of diesel to reduce the subsidy. Diesel cars are atleast a lakh costlier than their petrol counterparts for the same features. I am pretty sure the manufacturers are making a bit of money.

Isnt it a win win situation if mor epeople adopt diesel cars and at the end of it we would be consuming less fuel overall owing to better fuel efficiency.
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Old 17th September 2012, 09:27   #33
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Default Re: Diesel Price Hike - end of the market skew in favour of diesels?

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Anyone who calls it a hike in price is blatantly ignoring the unfair discount that they have been getting at the cost of other tax payers.

I would like to see subsidy in fuel removed entirely.
Well it is just not the diesel car owner who benefit's from the subsidy, any one who uses a cell phone get a indirect benefit of the subsidy .The cell towers run's on diesel generator.

Any one who goes to market and buys the grocery is also get a indirect benefit of the subsidy .

So in summary it is just the diesel car owners who get to utilize this subsidy, there are many .
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Old 17th September 2012, 09:37   #34
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Default Re: Diesel Price Hike - end of the market skew in favour of diesels?

My answer to the question in the subject line is NO.

People will always favour diesel for the simple reason there diesel price is rarely increased, whereas petrol price can increase any time.
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Old 17th September 2012, 09:38   #35
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Default Re: Diesel Price Hike - end of the market skew in favour of diesels?

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Originally Posted by drmohitg View Post
The Rs. 5 hike in diesel prices is really nothing more than a small baby step in correcting the whole pricing mess. The govt. was finally left with no option and had to take this drastic step. But this doesn't mean that the price differential will be corrected totally. I don't see them increasing the prices any further for atleast a year now. On the other hand Petrol prices will surely go up once again once the dust over this price hike settles down.
Yes eventually we would all like to see both the fuels priced similarly but that day is not coming anytime soon. So I doubt if buyers will be much concerned right now and would still continue to prefer diesel cars.
Agree fully man!

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While I'm all for the move that petrol owners didn't get their nails in the pliers again, I have to say that this is again a case of throwing good money after bad.
Or at least, for us citizens, being fishhooked in the right nostril and being forced to pull out our wallets again to pour out a bigger percentage to support scams and their like.
This is not just for the current governance but for all of them.
Ah, but life will go on till it does. , and we have to keep paying no matter what.
Completely disagree man. Scams are different. This subsidy singlehandedly costs us 3% of our GDP. In an era where we are struggling to manage even 5% growth (see last quarter numbers) and all lead indicators are in the toilet, we should support this hike. Without growth, jobs disappear, so does investment. salary Hikes go away. But cost of living will not slow - because NREGA ensures that rural/food inflation is here to stay.

Hence, if govt doesnt close out subsidies, WE middle class will pay the price - not the farmers, not the binnessmen (most of whom do not pay tax anyways).
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Old 17th September 2012, 09:38   #36
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Default Re: Diesel Price Hike - end of the market skew in favour of diesels?

What is done in the UK, subsidised diesel is laced with an indelible dye which leave a trace in the exhaust. If a non agricultural machine is found with this fuel. It is confiscated and crushed.

However, enforcement over here is a challenge
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Old 17th September 2012, 09:52   #37
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Default Re: Diesel Price Hike - end of the market skew in favour of diesels?

If the subsidy is completely removed and diesel crosses Rs 70/-, then it will actually slow down the automobile industry. People are already avoiding petrol cars because of high running cost, and things won't get better sence Petrol prices won't come down. Drop in diesel car demand will be like final nail in the coffin
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Old 17th September 2012, 09:54   #38
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Default Re: Diesel Price Hike - end of the market skew in favour of diesels?

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Differentiating premium diesel cars and asking them to pay more is a skewed idea in itself

Many people complain about diesel cars having an advantage because of diesel being cheaper. When you had a chance to buy the diesel car in the first place which as a matter of fact is available across all segments, why make a hue and cry after you buy a petrol car.

What I would like to see is that the manufacturers should reduce the price of diesel cars and the government should increase the price of diesel to reduce the subsidy. Diesel cars are atleast a lakh costlier than their petrol counterparts for the same features. I am pretty sure the manufacturers are making a bit of money.

Isnt it a win win situation if mor epeople adopt diesel cars and at the end of it we would be consuming less fuel overall owing to better fuel efficiency.
I am not differentiating premium diesel cars - I am differentiating all diesel cars !

The subsidy in diesel is there because most of the nation - eg: heavy machinery, rail engines, farm equipment, city bus and long haul trucks - run on diesel. The subsidy is not there because I can go for a joyride on my diesel Beat (one of the lesser priced diesel car) or my diesel 5 series (one of the pricier diesel cars).

Diesel cars are costly because diesel engines need to be more robust than their petrol conterparts, and some other changes that are needed over the petrol engined cars.

If marketed at a fair price - ULSD would be slightly costlier than petrol. The initial investment on the costlier car, and the slightly costlier diesel fuel would almost surely negate the better FE. Would you still buy a diesel engine car then?
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Old 17th September 2012, 09:59   #39
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Default Re: Diesel Price Hike - end of the market skew in favour of diesels?

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If marketed at a fair price - ULSD would be slightly costlier than petrol. The initial investment on the costlier car, and the slightly costlier diesel fuel would almost surely negate the better FE. Would you still buy a diesel engine car then?
In Europe in 2011 Diesel car sales exceeded the Petrol car sales. afaik except for France Diesel costs the same or marginally more.
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Old 17th September 2012, 10:05   #40
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Default Re: Diesel Price Hike - end of the market skew in favour of diesels?

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
In Europe in 2011 Diesel car sales exceeded the Petrol car sales. afaik except for France Diesel costs the same or marginally more.
Yup - Diesel costs more in US too by 20-30 cents. But I see <1% diesel cars here. So I guess its the availability and car culture. My point is that people buying diesel cars just to enjoy the cheap diesel - that is plain wrong. The subsidy meant for something else is being misused.
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Old 17th September 2012, 10:09   #41
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Default Re: Diesel Price Hike - end of the market skew in favour of diesels?

In europe, diesel cars are winning favor because of annual taxation based on CO2 emissions that favors diesels that have lower CO2 emissions per km driven than petrols, when everything else is equal.

You can thank the global warming issue for that.

If the EU took diesel particulate emissions as serious as they take CO2 emissions, Diesels would be smothered. In the US, CO2 is not a big deal but particulate emissions are very tightly controlled making diesels a very tiny niche in the market. The cost of making a diesel car meet US emissions regulations leaves diesel cars much costlier and or/much weaker in performance that petrols.

Last edited by Harbir : 17th September 2012 at 10:17.
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Old 17th September 2012, 10:44   #42
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Default Re: Diesel Price Hike - end of the market skew in favour of diesels?

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People will always favour diesel for the simple reason there diesel price is rarely increased, whereas petrol price can increase any time.
You are correct !! Cent percent .

From salt, needles to Audis, mercs. All goods that are sold in india would be expensive by 4-5% because of this decision. another hike in the prices of Cigs

They should do something. All cars, made in india, should be only of petrol. This is the only way in which car users could be forced to use Only petrol.

According to some info, (Dont remember the source) Diesel usage for personal use (Car users) accounts for 0.6 0.8 % of total diesel consumption.

So why the government is really worried about <1% of the mob. Some people here (T bhp) suggest some wierd ideas like seperate counters for car users in petrol pumps, etc..

In simple terms
100 % Fuel deregulation => Common man Dead. ==> Exports become expensive ==> less takers for indian stuff. including IT (More labor cost) => Our business comes down. => Less jobs in Future. => China will become stronger

Another equation.
100% Diesel de regulation ==> expensive food and other consumables ==> expensive labor ==> expensive labor cost ==> Infrastructure becomes expensive ==> less loan takers ==> banking goes down ==> Country is down.

Just to curtail <1 % of people enjoying subsidy, we are putting the country's growth at risk. All those who support Diesel de regulation. please think before you cast your vote.

These are my opinions. some might think otherwise.

Last edited by gemi_kk : 17th September 2012 at 11:07. Reason: Adding more value to the posted stuff.
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Old 17th September 2012, 10:54   #43
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Default Re: Diesel Price Hike - end of the market skew in favour of diesels?

A step in the right direction - it is I guess.
Not sure why India does not go with the colored Diesel for Agriculture sold separately at a subsidy.

The Diesel skew finally over (?) - no way! [I own a diesel as well as petrol ]
I feel a petrol hike sooner rather than later will make this thread rather moot !

Most of us here I'm sure are discussing with the basic thought - how can this pricing wierdness get sorted out. But unfortunately the folks who are assigned with the task of thinking through options & implementing this (the folks elected to govern ); seemed to be focussed on matters quite different - I shall not spoil the wonderful Monday Morning by speaking about it!

Have a nice week folks!

Last edited by CLIX : 17th September 2012 at 11:00.
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Old 17th September 2012, 11:00   #44
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Default Re: Diesel Price Hike - end of the market skew in favour of diesels?

The government has also reduced the excise on petrol by 5/- so the hike in petrol was averted. Diesel makes sense when you factor in resale, if a car has a competent diesel engine, the comparative resale on the petrol version is hopeless.

Diesel still makes sense if you live in a suburban area, whatever your annual running. The calculation based on annual running is bunk, in most cases, you buy a car based on a budget, if you get diesel in that budget, it means that you can make a few emergency/long haul trips without it costing a month's EMI.
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Old 17th September 2012, 11:23   #45
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Default Re: Diesel Price Hike - end of the market skew in favour of diesels?

I think from now onwards every sale of a petrol car , used or new, should take place with a disclaimer:
1. I am aware that I am buying a PETROL vehicle.
2. Future circumstances may dictate that user's travel per day may increase by as much as 200%.
3. Hikes will preferable for the GoI to be implemented on Petrol rather than diesel.
4. In case of aforementioned hikes, bought petrol vehicle's resale value may decline by 50-100%
5. Knowing all this, thou shalt not covet thine neighbor's wife, er, car!!

All of us petrol users knew this, have known this, for eons now.
And if we sign this, then we have only ourselves to blame.
I know a decontrolled diesel option will, fairly or unfairly, strap a saturn V to prices of everything.
So I take a pledge to not be a crab anymore, and use my petrol to line up more sales meetings, close more deals, and build my incentive.

So that I can buy a diesel as my daily drive.

Amen.
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