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Old 27th September 2012, 12:42   #211
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Default Re: Mahindra Quanto Launched @ Rs. 5.82 - 7.36 Lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
@Phamilman, Vibbs:
1. The dynamically fantastic Punto comes with the Fiat's fantastic reputation of running away
2. Aveo / UVA don't have diesel engines, sell even less than Punto
3. SX4 is even more expensive than the more practical and equally powerful Ertiga
1. What does Fiats fantastic reputation of running away mean? Does it have anything to do with the fact that Punto has comparable GC to Quanto? Or is it that you are hinting at Mahindras being more reliable than Fiats? It would greatly help if you could be a little more specific.
2. Agreed. But the point was made not to get them as a comparison to Quanto in terms of sales, but just the fact that 180 mm GC of a supposed Mini SUV is matched by 'some' Hatches who dont claim to go everywhere.
3. Again agreed SX4 is expensive than the Quanto but as in second point this was also to just highlight, there is nothing great in Quantos 180mm GC that qualifies it as a go anywhere vehicle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post
The reason it will outdo all of those with similar / comparable GCs is due to the Ladder frame coupled with the short wheelbase and its Xylo lineage (which offers excellent ride on bad roads). If you head to Leh/Ladakh sometime, you will realize this fact much better given the fact that Xylos on the (lack of) roads there outnumber Innovas at least 3 to 1!! Nowhere in India have I seen more Xylos on the road than Innovas apart from Ladakh district of J&K(personal experience).
Shorter wheel base? Compared to what? Incase you are not aware, the Quanto has identical wheel base to the Xylo which at 2760 mm is much longer than the hatches and sedans listed. So the arguement that a shorter wheelbase compensates in some way to the lesser GC actually falls back on the Quanto. The Hatches with their shorter wheelbase would infact compensate for the lesser Ground clearance when compared to a Quanto.

The ladder frame has an advantage in tough terrain, but how much of a compromise is one willing to make to get that chasis is the question, well unless one is always driving in the himalayas.

OT: The Innova (Just because you mentioned it) has a lesser ground clearance than the Xylo and same wheel base (well almost). That should explain why Xylo is more prefered. Also dont forget the fact that Xylo has almost 10% more horses and torque compared to Innova which negates any disadvantage the Xylo's higher Kerb weight may have on the performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antz.bin View Post

As for people thinking it is excruciatingly slow, the 17.7 seconds it takes to do 0-100kmph is *faster* than:
Fiat Punto 75hp 1.3 Diesel ----------17.84 secs
Fiat Punto 1.2 Petrol ---------------18.16 secs
Tata Vista 1.2 Petrol -------------- 18.36 secs

And almost as quick as:
Tata Indigo CS 1.4 Diesel-----------16.90 secs
Mahindra Verito 1.5 Diesel-----------17.15 secs
Ford Fiesta 1.4 SXI Diesel-----------17.48 secs

The real difference should show up when you load up each one of the above to full load. Thats when the Quanto will show its 100bhp muscles which will give it a better power to weight ratio than many in the above list.
It is very interesting to see you comparing a slow coach with other slow coaches and saying it is better. None of these cars are exactly the ones one would be looking at if performance is what one is looking at.
The Quanto however being an SUV should have a distinct advantage over these (not in terms of outright performance but atleast in superior Power/weight or Torque/weight) which however is not the case.
Going further on your arguement that once fully loaded it would have a superior Power to weight ratio, lets look into that.

Punto: Kerb weight: 1144 Kg Five adults (80 Kg each) = 400 kg Plus 50 Kg Luggage = 1594 Kg

Power to weight: 47 Bhp/Tonne
Torque to weight: 12.59 KgM/Tonne

Quanto: Kerb Weight: 1600 Kg plus 450 Kg = 2050 Kg

Power to weight: 48.7 Bhp/Tonne

Torque to weight: 11.9 Kgm/tonne

See!! No major improvements in either power to weight or torque to weight compared to the 75 Bhp Punto even when fully loaded. So much for an SUV!! (However I accept that the punto would in no case accomodate 5 adults and 50 kg luggage as effortlessly as the Quanto)
BTW there is another 90 Bhp version of the Punto that is priced exactly where the Quanto top end is. While that too is no street scorcher, it would defenitely put in better results than the quanto fully loaded or not.

So as I see it the only drawback a Punto has over the Quanto is in the interior space and absolutely trumps it when it comes to dynamics. I assume a fiat build is superior to Mahindra but since I dont own either better let owners coment on that.

The crux of my post earlier was not the superior interior space but the "Go anywhere" claim.

As to the point that " Everything has a drawback" I whole heartedly agree to it, more so when it comes to a crossover, which is infact a best of both worlds with some compromises. But here in case of the Quanto I dont see any significant advantages apart from the superior space to negate the seemingly huge negatives. It doesn't combine a hatch or sedan's pluses with a UV's Advantage, something what is expected from a compact UV.

I however agree that my views are formed on hear say and hence are just that 'My Views'. The intent of my post was not to belittle anyone's choice, nor to ridicule any product. The Quanto infact was one product I was looking forward to. But now on the complete unvieling of the product, I am left disappointed. May be I expected too much.

Last edited by vibbs : 27th September 2012 at 12:51.
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Old 27th September 2012, 13:21   #212
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Default Re: Mahindra Quanto Launched @ Rs. 5.82 - 7.36 Lakhs

@Vibbs, The reason why I compare it with slow coaches of the Entry level Sedan segment is the similarity in pricing. I cannot compare it with a Laura TSI because they are not priced similarly. Try adding all that weight to a Indigo CS/ Verito / Fiesta / New Dzire, i.e., the cars which are priced almost at par with Quanto. The no.s come to:

Swift DZire------------ 49 bhp/ton (0.6% higher, smaller in each and every other respect)
Indigo CS------------- 46.2 bhp/ton (5.2% lower)
Verito----------------- 42.5 bhp/ton (13% lower)
Fiesta----------------- 42.5 bhp/ton (13% lower)
Just for reference:
Fiat Linea Diesel ------ 51.1 bhp/ton (6% higher, ~2 lac more expensive)

Coming to Punto, the important thing you are missing here is the gearing. Torque to weight is not a real ratio which can be used for comparison, torque at the wheel can be increased or decreased easily using different gear ratios. Punto (75hp) is something which has a slower timing with almost no load, how do you suppose it will keep up when it is loaded?
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Old 27th September 2012, 13:39   #213
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Default Re: Mahindra Quanto Launched @ Rs. 5.82 - 7.36 Lakhs

saw the Quanto in the flesh for the first time yesterday and my initial reaction was that you need to have a suicidal tendency to drive something that disproportionate. I would shudder to think what would be the outcome of a sudden lane change at high speeds in an emergency on this vehicle.

I feel M&M are milking the customer's craze for an "S"UV. This is nothing but a hatch on stilts, and not a very pretty one at that. Cars like this and the Rio should be banned in India. I cant think of any good reason to buy this over something like a Swift ZDI or an I20 or even the Punto (which has similar GC). these cars are far better engineered and dynamically more sorted than the Quanto.

However, the sad part is that in all likelihood this will be a great success.

Last edited by himanshugoswami : 27th September 2012 at 13:42.
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Old 27th September 2012, 14:27   #214
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Default Re: Mahindra Quanto Launched @ Rs. 5.82 - 7.36 Lakhs

@ Antz, How is Dzire smaller in every other aspect? Smaller as in size? That I agree. I also agree that the GC is lower but also discount for the fact that the wheelbase is also vastly shorter. Other than that, the DDIS is a much well established engine backed by Maruti reliability unlike a 3 pot newly developed engine that may seem refined now, but with age there is every possibility of vibrations creeping in.

Why limit the comparison to veritos and indigo cs?
There are a few other hatches like the liva, ritz, vista and entry level sedans like etios and manza in similar price range which you missed out that have better power to weight and performance than the Quanto but similar when fully loaded.

See all these hatches and sedans will out perform Quanto when not fully loaded. Only when they are loaded to hilt does the matter start to turn towards Quanto's side. So basically it makes sense only if you are travelling with a full contingent always. Else you end up driving a car that is underpowered and feels too. Even when loaded, it doesn't better these cars by a huge margin either.

The point is when you have options that can carry the same load with similar ease, why would you want to sacrifice the definitely vastly superior handling and dynamics just for slightly more space and GC. (GC as I said before, Quanto is not ahead by a huge margin as it is let down by the long wheelbase which may negate the higher GC in some if not most cases).

The point is about compromises.
1. Quanto doesn't seem to perform better than the mainstream Hatches and Sedans, under load or not.

2. It has better GC, but there are similar performing hatches that have similar GC.

3. It has good space, but baring the swift and may be the Punto, other hatches like the I20, Liva, Vista and sedans like Etios and Manza are not too cramped.

4. It cant hold a candle to these hatches and sedans when it comes to dynamics and handling.

5. Interior quality we can assume at par with Maruti, Tata, Toyota (in the price range)

6. Looks : subjective

7. Fuel efficiency: Too early to comment but most of these seem to better it on efficiency front too.

8. Niggles: Will refrain from commenting on that.


As I can see it, it doesn't have one significant advantage when compared to other vehicles in the price range baring a bit on space and may be a bit on GC.
Had it been a slightly better performance (either by the way of the engine being more powerful or the kerb weight being lesser) or a slightly better dynamics, the Quanto would have had a better case. As of now, I dont think it holds much in value. There are too many compromises to be made for very little advantages.
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Old 27th September 2012, 14:48   #215
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Default Re: Mahindra Quanto Launched @ Rs. 5.82 - 7.36 Lakhs

Hmm ... People have started fighting (Discussing ) over Quanto. It means it has surely created a buzz among all the car enthusiastic people. I guess we need to have TBHP official review as soon as possible so that it can clarify all on most of the points in discussion.

Anyways, i guess its a genuine effort from Indian car maker. I guess its totally in different league all together. So no point in comparing with cars like Swift, i20. Punto & sedans like Dzire, Verito etc. It has created its own category. IMO its grown up hatch with lots of space, utility, occasional 7 seater, economic to run etc. We need to understand that no car in the market is perfect. (TBHP members will agree with me on this) Mahindra has not surely designed it for enthusiastic people so its unfair to compare with other cars. I am sure Mahindra will do well with this car like other their cars which are doing very well in the market.
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Old 27th September 2012, 15:50   #216
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Default Re: Mahindra Quanto Launched @ Rs. 5.82 - 7.36 Lakhs

@Vibbs:
Etios VD is 70k more expensive than Quanto C8 and still comes 4% below in P2W at full load (I was about to add that to the comparo but the edit window time expired)

Swift Dzire has:
1. Less rear bench width (Quanto is 15.5 cm wider)
2. Less luggage space
3. Less comfy ride on really bad roads (Driven and compared. Not speculation)
4. Less GC
5. Less space for rear passengers (in all 3 axes (x,y,z))

Manza is not in the same league as the others that I have listed. It clearly belongs to a segment above the regular Indigo (which has been used in the comparo). Also, Manza ABS + Airbag costs ~60k more and has lesser width and luggage space. Manza handling is not exactly class leading either. What it gains on Linea in terms of practicality, it loses it on handling.

When it comes to comparing Quanto with Hatchbacks, do they offer practicality anywhere close to Quanto? They are clearly not in the same league!! The Quanto is wider than than the widest hatchback (i20) by a full 140mm!
How can the hatchbacks offer similar space for 3 passengers then?
How can you even compare them to Quanto!
I have been looking at Quantos for months before their launch (3 M&M engineers have been staying in my building for the past 2 years. Test Quantos used to be parked overnight for almost 4 days a week over 4 months in my building's parking)

Of course premium hatches will offer better power, better handling, better power to weight ratios than entry level sedans at lower prices, but Quanto ain't targeting those, solely because these hatchbacks don't hold a candle when it comes to practicality. People buy entry level diesel sedans over premium hatchbacks for practicality, not performance. Thats what Quanto offers.

When you compare Quanto 2nd bench width with Vista/i20/Liva/Polo/Punto the extra 15-16cm difference can be the difference between 3 cramped adults and 3 comfy (hatte katte) Punjabi adults over a 500km journey, not to mention the 5 Punjabi chaps can carry a lot more luggage in the Quanto and don't need to take all their luggage out if they suffer a flat tyre en route !

The rest of the points you just listed are my own, from 2 pages back .

The crux of the matter being, the Quanto might be amongst the laggards when it comes to outright performance and efficiency. But it certainly aces the competition on practicality and comfort by a long long margin as long the competition is priced similarly.
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Old 27th September 2012, 16:07   #217
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Default Re: Mahindra Quanto Launched @ Rs. 5.82 - 7.36 Lakhs

@ vibbs,
Relax buddy, there are lots of better handlers than the Quanto, point taken.
However, not everyone has the same requirements for ride and handling. I am still waiting to get on land and see the Quanto and Duster in flesh but just by seeing the pictures I can guarantee that at least the front row seems like the best place to be in for a long drive (in that price range). Holding back on the second row coz it does look steep and if I were to get one the first thing on my agenda would be to dump the Jump seats and do something about the back rest.
You may argue that it won't handle well and that may negate the advantage of a good seating position due to bouncing/swaying etc. Well not everyone wants to drive 'fast and furious' the majority of road users are relaxed cruisers. It's only on bhp that the enthusiasts outnumber the regular Joe's.
Oh and just an FYI when I sit in the second row of a Manza or Linea my head is flush with the roof. Just giving you reasons why people may look at the Quanto.
PS, I am not going to get into any argument, each car has it's pros and cons, it's all a matter of needs requirements and Budget.
For instance I can live with the Scorpios bouncy ride just for the brilliant views it offers when I am travelling cross country, I don't mind going slower through corners and am not interested in speeding on road. I leave speeding on the go kart track and mind you I am not the best but have always shocked my 'fast' friends.
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Old 27th September 2012, 16:39   #218
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Default Re: Mahindra Quanto Launched @ Rs. 5.82 - 7.36 Lakhs

@Antz

I am not in a mood to drag this further. See where we started from and where we arrived at. The first post of mine to which you responded, was all about how overhyped was Quanto's 'go anywhere' claim. 180 mm GC is not 'go anywhere' territory infact it is not that better than what modern hatches and sedans offer was the point we started on and very well made clear by me on the next subsequent post too. From there we have got into practicality.


Anyways, lets agree to disagree here.

Peace
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Old 27th September 2012, 16:55   #219
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Default Re: Mahindra Quanto Launched @ Rs. 5.82 - 7.36 Lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by aniketi View Post
I guess its totally in different league all together. So no point in comparing with cars like Swift, i20. Punto & sedans like Dzire, Verito etc. It has created its own category.
Agree completely. This category is created from carving some numbers from Xylo and Bolero, and not from hatches. The form, functionality and everything else are in the utility vehicle territory, IMO. But even if I am in the look out for a utility vehicle, I would give Quanto a miss - it's just as ugly as it can be.
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Old 27th September 2012, 17:04   #220
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Default Re: Mahindra Quanto Launched @ Rs. 5.82 - 7.36 Lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
Agree completely. This category is created from carving some numbers from Xylo and Bolero, and not from hatches. The form, functionality and everything else are in the utility vehicle territory, IMO. But even if I am in the look out for a utility vehicle, I would give Quanto a miss - it's just as ugly as it can be.
Aren't looks subjective? If you think Quanto is ugly, not necessary that everyone thinks so. Old Dzire, many people don't like it but i really like its looks. It looks cool in some angles. Rear is little bad i agree. I am not saying this because i own one, i think so that's why i own one i will say

Similarly i guess many people will like Quanto in looks as well. I also find it acceptable. People looks at Mahindra vehicles from different angle. People thinks that their cars are rigid, rough & tough, can take extra load, can be repaired by any road side mechanic etc. That is the reason Scorpio & Bolero are so hit in the market even they are not 100 % perfect cars. Similarly Quanto will be successful. People from rural area, tier II & III cities will jump over it. I am sure M&M will sale around 5 k per month And i will be very happy if Mahindra do it as it is a Indian company & i will be proud of it.
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Old 27th September 2012, 17:37   #221
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Default Re: Mahindra Quanto Launched @ Rs. 5.82 - 7.36 Lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
Agree completely. This category is created from carving some numbers from Xylo and Bolero, and not from hatches. The form, functionality and everything else are in the utility vehicle territory, IMO. But even if I am in the look out for a utility vehicle, I would give Quanto a miss - it's just as ugly as it can be.
A frined of mine who is waiting for Swift Dezire from last few months, cancelled the booking and booked the Mahindra Quanto, promised delivery is 4 weeks.
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Old 27th September 2012, 23:04   #222
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Default Re: Mahindra Quanto Launched @ Rs. 5.82 - 7.36 Lakhs

Well I have seen worse vehicle doing huge round of numbers. IMHO car should have atleast 1 good thing to strike a chord with buyer.

Verna- Class misleading handling which outclass whole BHP advantage. USP- car has gorgeous looks and Hyundai's backing.

I20- Well peace of mind I would say and has Jazz's backing too (Car looked well priced in comparison to the intial Jazz). Car in absolute terms an all rounder and putting it here is sarcastic . USP- looks good and does everything just fine.

Dezire- Swift with a boot, but yes boot is useful and car is a part of big car community. Average Indian buyer who looks for functionality cannot differentiate between A,B,C & D. Price and functionality it's anyways better than SX4 so is a junta favorite. Especially in tier 2 & tier 3 cities its the cheapest entry to big car club, also pertaining to Maruti's reach. USP- Big car at not so big price, with Maruti's backing.

Bolero- Looks awfully bad but looks like what it is meant for. USP- It's rugged, looks desi and a decent people carrier. Mahindra is for MACHO

Keeping all this in mind I am sure Quanto will do decent number as-
  • It's bigger than normal hatches and at the same price. You get more value (more mass in the tune of 1600KG) for money
  • Macho Mahindra
  • Can carry 7 people, who cares in what shape. Haven't you seen public transport and overcapicitated buses
  • Is Diesel, goes from point A to B (power).
  • Will cost 3 Re/Km (mileage)
  • Will go straight if you keep the steering pointed and unmoved (handling).
  • You would not bang your head against the ceiling on pot holes (comfort)
  • Would not be easy target for a Taxi as it comes between Sumo and Xylo (Premium image)
Looks better than Sumo and looks are subjective. One looking for beauty would buy a hatch. And belive me, beautification of the car would have increased the price and taken away from the buyer segment.

My 2 Paisa, Car will bring in numbers for Mahindra. Duster has opened up a new segment for the buyers and Quanto will cash on to that. Person aspiring for Duster but couldn't afford (find it overpriced) it will certainly give a visit to Mahindra.

Regards,
Maddy
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Old 28th September 2012, 05:54   #223
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Checked the QUANTO out yesterday, the back seat-rest is not a deal breaker, it's definitely upright but you can adjust your body to feel comfortable. The height is equal to a XYLO, I was expecting this to be slightly shorter but no. The rear-most jump seats, I'm 5.8 and Overweight, my Brother is 6.0 and Overweight, both of us sat and closed the door, we were able to sit and both agreed that with friends and family in the car, just for the joy of traveling, we can manage an hour there, but no more. Only the top end model was on display, the Reps had no options, left me wondering what MAHINDRA was trying to hide. Basic model is 7,21,000 in Bangalore on-road.
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Old 28th September 2012, 19:55   #224
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Default Re: Mahindra Quanto Launched @ Rs. 5.82 - 7.36 Lakhs

Test drove the Quantos today. My impressions:

The test drive vehicle was a c8 - top end version as all TD cars usually are.
Looks:
The car is quite big, but in no way disproportionate. From the front, you cant easily distinguish from a Xylo, and from the side, it turns out to look like a soft off-roader (CRV comes to my mind). The back is not bad at all.

Drive:
As soon as one sits in the car, one can feel the height - the road presence is huge and other smaller cars look like mosquitos (well, just being humourous here ). Started the car, and all the dials go to 100% and get back. The car starts with a vibration of a slightly heavy diesel. And then its quite low noise from then on.

The clutch is quite heavy and this is disappointing. I wish the clutch had been easier because in Bangalore, you tend to use the clutch a lot. The gear shift is rubbery and also interferes with the arm rests. I even tried to fold the arm rests, but somehow I was still not comfortable when moving to 2nd and 4th, as my elbow used to touch the arm rest. Others who TD the car can watch out for this.

Once i started to drive, the car effortlessly went to about 45kmph in 2nd gear. I did not mean to drive hard at all, and the car did not struggle to reach 45 in 2nd gear. So the engine is fairly good - although its a 3 cylinder one. More importantly, i found it to be quite linear except at very low rpms. As long as you keep this machine at decent rpm's, it would respond nicely to you.

The miCr engine has the "hybrid" technology on the C4 to C8 variants, and this is a good move by Mahindra to get this on all the variants as this would help fuel efficiency (in comparison with other hatches). There is button on the dash which can switch this off if required.

The display on the center console indicates the Distance to Empty and average fuel consumption. On the car i drove, the average was showing 12 kmpl. So, assuming the test drive vehicle was driven in a lot of start/stop traffic, one can expect about 13kmpl is what I am thinking. If one gets 14kmpl in city, that would be tops in my opinion. Just for reference, the ARAI mileage is 17kmpl.

Space is awesome in the first 2 rows. The second row comes with 2 airline-type cup holders, which can be used to place cups/small plates etc. The floor is flat, and this makes it easier for 3 people to fit in the second row.

(I was with the vehicle only for 10 to 15 mins, had to go back to office. So, could not really get into details of cupholders and such details etc.).

Now the back seat: Well, mixed reaction. I am 5' 7" and could fit in. It was ok - my head still had a couple of inches from the top. However a taller colleague of mine found it very tough with the ceiling very close to his head. Apart from that, there is a handle on one side (which is probably to be used when climbing into the back compartment), which really interferes with the seating on one side. With all this, my conclusion is that, one person can fairly comfortably sit here, for short travels like an hour or so. Two also can sit, if they had small to medium builds. But this should be "occasional" rather than "more often". The idea of seating children crossed my mind - as i myself have 2 kids and am looking at some 7 seater. However, these seats without seatbelts, with abosolutely no safety mechanisms, i am not sure if would feel like putting my kids there, while i myself enjoy air bags in the front. (ok - i know this is debatable, and neither is this solved in other cars as well - excuse my rant).

Interiors: Interiors are just about ok. Nothing different from the Xylo i suppose. There are dual tone colors and seem pleasant enough. I do hate the dash with the rounded AC consoles.

So, all in all, a very mixed feeling where you dont get what you would in a premuim hatch, but you do get a lot of space, decent ride and loads of luggage space.

Would i buy it: I am thinking. the C6 is a good package at 8.6L on road. I am still not convinced it is worth it though!

Last edited by deep_bang : 28th September 2012 at 20:15.
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Old 28th September 2012, 20:17   #225
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Default Re: Mahindra Quanto Launched @ Rs. 5.82 - 7.36 Lakhs

I am sorry the car went to 45 kmph easily in second gear which tells you that the engine is good? In this day and age when car manufacturers are going to some length to bring down weight, a sub 4 meter car weighing 1640 is an absolute joke. This is one car which doesn't even have one USP. The engine specs are good but everything else is a huge let down.
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