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Old 19th August 2009, 09:50   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_boy View Post
This is my list :

1. Opel Corsa Royale ( One of the best looking cars)
2. Opel Corsa Swing
3. Baleno Altura
4. Tata Indigo Marina
5. Sonalika Rhino !!!!
6. Sumo Grande
7. I know I invite many brickbats but to me i20 Petrol is a definite flop.
I do not think Sonalika Rhino is a flop. Its doing well certainly, though not comparable with Qualis.
The only problem, that bring them here is their sales network, they launched in the north first, and came later to south (If I am wrong, at least to Tamilnadu. I see many on the road here.
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Old 19th August 2009, 13:26   #257
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Defining a flop model is real difficult in this market. Many a car is famous/sell well in Diff part of India. And again If we can compare A super hit model like SWIFT/ALTO/M800 with some other model then obviously all the cars are FLOP.
Ex: TATA Magic is very famous as passenger car in North but here u find very few. Even when one of my known person bought I was surprised to see that.

If you see Marina, In Bangalore there is lots of Meru Cab that are plying the city.

Last edited by arin_12 : 19th August 2009 at 13:28.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 10:46   #258
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Don't forget the granddaddy of all flops - the Tata Estate. It had so many problems that Tata Motors took their first real knock to their reputation.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 11:56   #259
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Guys you need to keep the scale of operations and size of market chunk in mind while declaring something as flop.

Reva is the only EV car and a status symbol of Eco friendly it was never meant to be a mass market and it is expensive at 3.5 lakhs for a micro 2 seater car but it is a Niche and playing quite well in it's defined segment.

Rhino is not flop it is picking slowly and steadily first in north and now I am seeing more and more Rhinos in Bangalore as pick up cabs. Sonalika started as small operation with low marketing budget and was nowhere compared to M&M and Tata , Thier peak production capacity is under 200 Vehicals per month.

Similarly Indigo Marina is not flop by any yardstick , How many station wagons we have in market ? While Maruti Pulled out Baleno Altura and Fiat discontinued Adventure Marina is only one which is still selling in large numbers but you can not compare the sale of niche product to mainstream ones. I can safely say it is still largest selling station wagon.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 12:13   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Rhino is not flop it is picking slowly and steadily first in north and now I am seeing more and more Rhinos in Bangalore as pick up cabs. Sonalika started as small operation...
The Rhino is actually a runaway success since Toyota stopped producing the Qualis. The first time I encountered one some years ago, I thought it was a modded Qualis! Sonalika never advertised this product till very recently, and it still sold in fairly large numbers in Punjab by word-of-mouth advertising. Today, the company has a waiting list for the Rhino, and it is a hit among commercial cab operators!
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Old 23rd August 2009, 12:14   #261
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The following cars come to my mind

1) Tata Estate

2) Standard 2000

3) Corsa Sail

4) Ford Escort

5) Zen Estilo

6) Skoda Fabia

7) Fiat Petra

8) Hyundai Sonata

9) Grand Vitara (previous model)

10) ? Honda Jazz
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Old 23rd August 2009, 12:19   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
The Rhino is actually a runaway success since Toyota stopped producing the Qualis. The first time I encountered one some years ago, I thought it was a modded Qualis! Sonalika never advertised this product till very recently, and it still sold in fairly large numbers in Punjab by word-of-mouth advertising. Today, the company has a waiting list for the Rhino, and it is a hit among commercial cab operators!
Yes I heard interiors of Rhino are almost luxurious seeing the price point but never seen it first hand, Have they increased the production capacity earlier I heard it is just 150 - 200 Vehicles per month ?
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Old 23rd August 2009, 12:25   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Have they increased the production capacity earlier I heard it is just 150 - 200 Vehicles per month ?
I have no idea how many vehicles Sonalika produces per month, but in a casual conversation with a cab operator I learnt that delivery can be delayed by a month after booking. The reasons it is such a success, as the guy said, was its cost, the easy availability of spares (it supposedly uses components of a variety of other SUVs), and its FE.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 12:48   #264
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GM Opel brand failed miserably in India -
1. Astra
2. Vectra
3. Corsa
4. Corsa Sail
5. Corsa Swing
These cars done well in other parts of the world but never impressed Indian buyers. Same happened to Sipani Rover Montego, Ford Mondeo, Peugoet 309. MSIL's Zen was a big hit in Indian market but is siblings 2-door Zen Carbon/Steel and 4-door Classic was a failure.
In India only 4 persons out of 1000 own a vehicle which is much lower in comparison to the other contries like Thailand (35), Brazil (92), South Korea (187) and USA (450). In India car is still a luxury item as the affordability is low. So whoever buy a car look for better service, long lasting product, easy to maintain, good FE, practicallity and smarter look. We never ready to experiment with our cars. Nobody in India buys a San Strom/Zen steel or carbon as their first or only car and how many people can afford a second car. Opel and Peugoet is considered a good brand in Europe but failed here because of their lousy service network. In case of Peugoet horn was not there in the steering wheel, it was stock mounted, hatch back kind of boot - we are not familiar with these things.
On the other hand Maruti 800 has no safety features it just has a chasis and an engine that can pull four adults. But its a champion in Indian market becuse of its affordibility, fantastic VFM, causes little dent in your pocket in terms of operational cost. Some time I just wonders that may be 2 years down the line we have to add Nano in this list. Its affordable but I'm not sure how Indian consumer will take the features like rear mounted engine, difficult to access boot etc. God knows..
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Old 23rd August 2009, 13:23   #265
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Logan? Can we consider it a flop? I know it's selling decent nos. But it was supposed to be the NEXT Maruti 800 in its segment. Absolutely bombed these expectations. What stupid cost cutting measures they were raving about. It turned out to be a sore thumb for Mahindra.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 14:22   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Logan? Can we consider it a flop? I know it's selling decent nos. But it was supposed to be the NEXT Maruti 800 in its segment. Absolutely bombed these expectations. What stupid cost cutting measures they were raving about. It turned out to be a sore thumb for Mahindra.
I dunno about that. Its being used by many taxi drivers. Pretty common these days in Bangalore. That does count as success doesn't it?
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Old 23rd August 2009, 14:26   #267
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the Indigo Marina is also a hit with taxi drivers. What i meant was, the magnitude with which the operations started in India, with Renault and Mahindra hyping it up soo much. The DACIA sells for much cheaper in Romania. Wonder why they cant price it likewise here. Explains the flop show in passenger sales.


Taxis: well, they prefer any car from any manufacturer that offers them a discount. Explains why so many taxis are indigos and indigo xls. the petrol variants of these models JUST dont sell. tata gives a large discount + cng kit. taxi operators flock to buy.

The same goes with the Logan. The petrols are not selling. AT all. Well, the 1.6 is a SUPER FLOP


and i wouldn't consider the escort as a flop. Then that way, the Daewoo Nexia is also a flop. They were niche models for the time. Sold ok numbers.

Last edited by frankmehta : 23rd August 2009 at 14:27.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 14:36   #268
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The chevrolet SRV didnt really sell as much as people would have thought. It is a neat looking hatchback, has a very sporty appearance. It maybe a bit over priced at 8L onroad. I live in bangalore, and I have hardly seen 10 SRV's. I wonder what it lacked, besides being slightly overpriced(IF you can say that) Maybe it did not have enough brand value at the time, cause chevrolet was relatively new back then.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 17:37   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KITE RUNNER View Post
The following cars come to my mind

3) Corsa Sail

5) Zen Estilo

6) Skoda Fabia

10) ? Honda Jazz
the above cars you mentioned are not Flops. you see many of them in mumbai. the estilo- by no means its a flop!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaddiwale View Post
GM Opel brand failed miserably in India -
1. Astra
2. Vectra
3. Corsa
4. Corsa Sail
5. Corsa Swing
the astra & corsa were not flops. astras sold pretty well in the 90's until the honda city was launched. i remember the cielo, astra & escort was launched almost together & it was the astra which sold decent numbers. even the corsas sold well.

guys, flops means real disasters. Now, vectra is a flop. you hardly see any on the road. but corsa & astra, they may be few but certeinly not rare.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 18:49   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post

Taxis: well, they prefer any car from any manufacturer that offers them a discount. Explains why so many taxis are indigos and indigo xls. the petrol variants of these models JUST dont sell. tata gives a large discount + cng kit. taxi operators flock to buy.
No outside Taxi market also marina sells the main selling point is the station wagon body type at a cheap price point and cheap components and maintenance. Now Station wagon is itself a niche segment and Marina is largest selling till now both in private and taxi segment.
Also most taxi marina are diesel Meru cabs in Bangalore recently acquired 400 Diesel Marina easy cabs have similar number.

About Logan not a failure but yes it is not a spectacular hit like what it was promised to be because probably it is one decade late , There are better fit and finish 3 box cars available in market .
Probably in Romania there were noting similar to Dezire and Indigo at lower end and Honda City ( lowest variant ) at price point of higher end of Logan price band.


GM discontinued Opel brand and focused only on Cheverolet brand by introducing ex Dawoo models in Chevrolet badge, It has more to do with branding and not failure of Corsa and Astra.
IMHO GM should have done just reverse of this branding strategy or retained Dawoo brand in Asia because Cheverolet was synonymous with oil guzzler and costly not extacly selling points here.

Last edited by amitk26 : 23rd August 2009 at 18:53.
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