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Old 8th July 2016, 14:39   #406
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Default Re: Flop cars in our market

Time for a fresh list of entrants?

Picking some entries from our team bhp car of the year 2014 and 2015 list, so as to avoid earlier entries repeating -
  • 1. Datsun Go+
  • 2. Datsun Go
  • 3. Honda Mobilio
  • 4. Audi A3
  • 5. Ford New Figo
  • 6. TATA Bolt
  • 8. Renault Lodgy
  • 9. Chevrolet Trailblazer
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Old 8th July 2016, 15:59   #407
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Default Re: Flop cars in our market

I drive one of these "flop" cars.

The Yeti.

This is the ONLY car I own.


Yes, it is a bit of a "niche" car.

But believe me, there is no other vehicle of its type, that even comes close to it in terms of capability and overall value.

This "flop" car is the best car I have ever owned until date.
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Old 8th July 2016, 18:51   #408
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Default Re: Flop cars in our market

I would like to classify this as a moderate flop: Maruti Ritz.
That is because it never rose as it should've just because of one flaw:
A bad rear! Because of that a capable car that never caught people's fancy
in spite of all other plus points!
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Old 8th July 2016, 19:49   #409
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Default Re: Flop cars in our market

In the recent times, I feel that the below models have been flops:

Chevy - The Sail hatchback and Sedan versions, Enjoy MPV(not seen in the commercial fleets also)

Maruti Suzuki - Wagon R Stingray, Eeco

Volkswagen - Cross Polo, Beetle

Tata - Bolt, Safari Storme and Xenon XT. Zest has done better than Bolt but still hasn't done well enough as much as Tata would've liked.
As far as Nano is concerned, you see so many Nanos on the road, wonder why people would term it as a failure. Go to a Hill station like Ooty or Kodai and you would see more of them there. You also see a lot of people taking to the new Nano GenX which addresses a few more shortcomings from the past such as a very low fuel tank capacity and an openable boot.

Fiat - Linea(Classic / New one), Avventura, Punto (Pure / Petrol versions / Abarth)
Punto has slowly become the Polo of the Fiat with so many variants and so many BHP variants. Though not a flop essentially in the diesel variant, the petrol variant is to be a flop. And as far as the Abarth Version goes, I haven't seen more than 2 Abarths on the floor.

Mahindra - Quanto, Xylo in the passenger segment(have seen them as Commercial fleet)

Ford - Endeavour

That's just my opinion based on what I've seen on roads and read. No offence to anyone folks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by srikanthns View Post
I would like to classify this as a moderate flop: Maruti Ritz.
That is because it never rose as it should've just because of one flaw:
A bad rear! Because of that a capable car that never caught people's fancy
in spite of all other plus points!
I've still seen them in sizable number on the roads. Though not a success as much as a swift(with same set of engines) however, it still cannot be termed as a flop.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 8th July 2016 at 20:20.
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Old 8th July 2016, 20:04   #410
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Default Re: Flop cars in our market

Quote:
Originally Posted by srikanthns View Post
I would like to classify this as a moderate flop: Maruti Ritz.
That is because it never rose as it should've just because of one flaw:
A bad rear! Because of that a capable car that never caught people's fancy
in spite of all other plus points!
Do you know the sales figures of Ritz in June 2016? It does 4k+ and is listed in the top 20 cars in sales

Last edited by volkman10 : 8th July 2016 at 20:26.
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Old 8th July 2016, 20:08   #411
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Default Re: Flop cars in our market

Folks we seem to be forgetting two old bombs. The Rover 2000, Peugeot 309. Rover was killed off by the lousy engine, it was pretty successful in the UK. The Peugeot by Premier Motors. The Hatch version 205 was designed by Pinnafarina and was the COY in Europe. I had a 205GL with an 1124 engine in the UK, and was a beauty. Could cruise at 80mph all day. Brilliant ergonomics, and handling.

Last edited by noopster : 10th July 2016 at 09:42. Reason: As requested
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Old 8th July 2016, 20:20   #412
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Default Re: Flop cars in our market

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
Time for a fresh list of entrants?

Picking some entries from our team bhp car of the year 2014 and 2015 list, so as to avoid earlier entries repeating -
  • 1. Datsun Go+
  • 2. Datsun Go
  • 3. Honda Mobilio
  • 4. Audi A3
  • 5. Ford New Figo
  • 6. TATA Bolt
  • 8. Renault Lodgy
  • 9. Chevrolet Trailblazer
The list is very subjective,

The Datsun Go and Go+ are doing decent numbers (around 1k each) considering Datsuns limited brand recall and sales outlets. Also the segment is very competitive. They sell better than many chevrolet, ford and fiat cars.

Mobilio, Bolt and lodgy are ok, dont really know about the Figo and A3.

About the Trailblazer, the car is imported in limited lots as a CBU, So it sells as per its imports. The gameplan is screwed up but I wont call it a flop.
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Old 8th July 2016, 20:30   #413
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Default Re: Flop cars in our market

The 2016 launched Mahindra's Nuvosport is a dud. Never touched 4 digit number since its launch!

Last edited by volkman10 : 8th July 2016 at 20:32.
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Old 8th July 2016, 20:41   #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
The 2016 launched Mahindra's Nuvosport is a dud. Never touched 4 digit number since its launch!
It didn't sell even before the upgrade in April this year. So not surprised about it.
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Old 8th July 2016, 20:53   #415
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Originally Posted by 400notout View Post
The Datsun Go and Go+ are doing decent numbers (around 1k each) considering Datsuns limited brand recall and sales outlets. Also the segment is very competitive. They sell better than many chevrolet, ford and fiat cars.
And those Chevrolet, Ford and Fiat cars are considered flops too! Anyways, Datsun Go needs to be compared to its direct competition which are doing far better numbers.

Even considering their own expectations, Nissan had announced a target of 10% market share by 2017 when Go was launched in 2014. Later when Go+ came, they had to lower the targets to 8% as Go did not do well as they expected. Now with the launch of the RediGo, they had to revise it and announce a target of 5% by 2020. All of which clearly shows Go and Go+ never performed even as per their expectations or segment potential.

Limited brand recall and sales outlet numbers are few of the reasons why it flopped.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 400notout View Post
Mobilio, Bolt and lodgy are ok, dont really know about the Figo and A3.
Don't have the numbers for A3. Went with gut feel as I haven't seen any on the road, except once.

Here you go with the Figo Vs some of its competition. I prepared this graph earlier for Baleno Vs others thread. Flop IMO, as there is not much to differentiate it from the Bolt which you convincingly agree as a flop.

Let's not forget, it's a brand new launch and if it's already falling out of market demand, could only get worse an year or two down the line.

Did not include Aspire as compact sedan competition do much less numbers and hence it doing 1k per month can't be called flop.

Flop cars in our market-premium_hatch_sales2.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by 400notout View Post
About the Trailblazer, the car is imported in limited lots as a CBU, So it sells as per its imports. The gameplan is screwed up but I wont call it a flop.
So is there a huge waiting period? As I understand there is no demand and no supply as well. Market didn't even take notice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
the recently launched Mahindra's Nuvosport is a dud. Never touched 4 digit since its launch!
Bound to happen, for it is anyways a facelifted Quanto which has been featured earlier in this thread.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 8th July 2016 at 21:01.
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Old 8th July 2016, 21:44   #416
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Default Re: Flop cars in our market

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post

Even considering their own expectations, Nissan had announced a target of 10% market share by 2017 when Go was launched in 2014. Later when Go+ came, they had to lower the targets to 8% as Go did not do well as they expected. Now with the launch of the RediGo, they had to revise it and announce a target of 5% by 2020.
10% market share at present scenario comes around 20k+ units shipped per month, which currently no one except Maruti and Hyundai enjoy, occasionally save for Honda and Mahindra.
Its easy to say such numbers but Nissan doesnt have the Brand image nor a superstar like Kwid to get there.
Why blame Datsun when Nissan which 5 cars (duds) in its portfolio hasn't managed to outsell Datsun which sells just 2 body types of the same car.

From May 2015 to April 2016 here are Datsuns dispatches vis a vis Nissan

Datsun - 18690

Nissan - 18473

With the launch of the redi-go, Datsuns numbers have only gotten better.

Quote:
All of which clearly shows Go and Go+ never performed even as per their expectations or segment potential.
A segment potential dictated by Maruti? Even Hyundai with all its might hasnt been able to dethrone the Alto, The Kwid with all its success still ships half of the Altos numbers. I would go easy on Datsun.


Quote:
Limited brand recall and sales outlet numbers are few of the reasons why it flopped.
I find your use of the word "flop" a bit harsh and not in context with actual market reality.

Quote:
So is there a huge waiting period? As I understand there is no demand and no supply as well. Market didn't even take notice.
LOL by that logic all cars with no waiting period are duds? Then the list is quite short. If news of 3k redigo shipments are true, next month Chevrolet will be overtaken by Datsun.
In such scenario i'm impressed Chevrolet is managing to import and sell a 34 lac SUV in any number competing with the Endeavour and Fortuner.
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Old 9th July 2016, 03:55   #417
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Default Re: Flop cars in our market

Quote:
Originally Posted by 400notout View Post
10% market share at present scenario comes around 20k+ units shipped per month, which currently no one except Maruti and Hyundai enjoy, occasionally save for Honda and Mahindra.
Its easy to say such numbers but Nissan doesnt have the Brand image nor a superstar like Kwid to get there.
Why blame Datsun when Nissan which 5 cars (duds) in its portfolio hasn't managed to outsell Datsun which sells just 2 body types of the same car.

From May 2015 to April 2016 here are Datsuns dispatches vis a vis Nissan

Datsun - 18690

Nissan - 18473

With the launch of the redi-go, Datsuns numbers have only gotten better.
It is not I that declared those numbers. Nissan did. And they did this knowing they have no major products in the pipeline other than Datsun products. Nissan was struggling back then as well, and it's obvious that they cooked up this ambitious plan for Datsun.

I totally agree with you they couldn't have pulled it off. But that was the expectation they set for themselves. I didn't blame Datsun, they themselves did, revising targets each time and blaming weak market demand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 400notout View Post
A segment potential dictated by Maruti? Even Hyundai with all its might hasnt been able to dethrone the Alto, The Kwid with all its success still ships half of the Altos numbers. I would go easy on Datsun.

I find your use of the word "flop" a bit harsh and not in context with actual market reality.
Go and Go+ compete a bit above the Alto. And yes, you are right. A direct competition with Alto is futile. So what would you consider a good sales figures for these cars? This is an open thread, so surely you can have your own opinion of what a respectable sales number is for these cars.

By the way, I tend to call out flops early and these cars show all signs of heading there! Go has almost become insignificant after the launch of Redigo. Pretty sure six months or a year down the line, you'd be agreeing these cars were flops.

By the way, do we have an agreement on the Figo?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 400notout View Post
LOL by that logic all cars with no waiting period are duds?
Come on! Trailblazer sold 41 units all over India in the last four months. They can import or not import or whatever, but surely the market doesnt care about it.

That's a classic flop, unlike the above Datsun case where it's debatable.
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Old 9th July 2016, 10:32   #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
It is not I that declared those numbers. Nissan did.

So what would you consider a good sales figures for these cars? This is an open thread, so surely you can have your own opinion of what a respectable sales number is for these cars.
Well Go was the first car launched launched by datsun, they realised that their type of cost-cutting wouldnt work. (open glovebox etc.)
And the + was just a mutation of that with a joke for 2 additional seats. I've seen quite a few ubers and olas using the Go siblings,
which is helping their sales. For me their trend is surely downward, but if they can maintain these sales (1k) it would be good.
It would help them further if Redigo does a consistent 2k, they would overtake VW and Chevy . It would be a good platform for the Go-cross crossover to make its mark.
So I see the Go twins as the load bearers till the other products make their mark. A few updates can make the car more relevant though, Don't know what it would do for sales.

Quote:
By the way, I tend to call out flops early and these cars show all signs of heading there! Go has almost become insignificant after the launch of Redigo. Pretty sure six months or a year down the line, you'd be agreeing these cars were flops.
You're mean , I have a soft corner for carmakers showing guts to launch products in the A- A+ segment. These cars are no Kwid, but not yet on life support.



Quote:
By the way, do we have an agreement on the Figo?
Yes it has failed to make an impact and is performing below expectations. But the numbers it is contributing is still significant to Fords total. Will it sustain it though? thats a question now.

Quote:
Come on! Trailblazer sold 41 units all over India in the last four months. They can import or not import or whatever, but surely the market doesnt care about it.

That's a classic flop, unlike the above Datsun case where it's debatable.
Since launch in October they have dispatched 180+ units. Now they have the facelift testing in India. There is no great demand for it, but its a half-hearted launch. I would blame GM more than the Trailblazer for its fate. It hasn't done well but I would not place it along with Sail twins and enjoy which are gems in the dud treasure box.

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Old 9th July 2016, 11:13   #419
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Default Re: Flop cars in our market

My nominees for the award of ultimate flops would be,

1. Fiat 500.
2. VW Beetle.
3. Sonalika Rhino.
4. Premier RIO.
5. Honda Mobilio.
6. Cross Etios.
7. Hyundai Sonata.
8. Maini Reva.
9. Fiat Siena.
10. Opel Corsa Sail.
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Old 9th July 2016, 13:15   #420
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My nominees for the award of ultimate flops would be,

1. Fiat 500.
2. VW Beetle.
Cars like 500, Beetle, Mustang, 370Z etc are launched only to bring some attention for the brand and no actual sales are expected from these models.

I'm hoping VW doesn't add Polo GTI to this list, and makes it more relevant for our market.
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