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Old 3rd May 2006, 09:25   #31
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Corsa, corsa sail, petra (although a great car), Uno, Versa, Altura,

in case of fiat petra/uno the dealership is responsible for not promoting it in india, like Sundaram motors in Bangalore. Now Tata along with their desiel cars will have petrol cars from fiat to sell. They have good chance in the market.
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Old 3rd May 2006, 10:28   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deeps
How come no mention of the Superb? I have yet to see more than 5 on the road anywhere in the world.

Yeh baat kuchh hazam nahi hui...
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Old 3rd May 2006, 11:09   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satish_appasani
How come nobody mentioned about Fiat here?
Ah! Wait till some Palio users see this--you might have stepped into a minefield buddy!

Getting to the point, I think it might not be right to classify FIAT's cars as flops, but the company has certainly nuked itself in India. FIAT cars still have takers, despite the terrible reputation for lacklustre sales strategies, poor after sales service, etc, etc. I would classify flop cars as those that are brought in based on flawed thought or research and then flop in India. FIAT cars (the Palio, the Petra and the Adventure) are all in segments with decent sales (except for the Adventure perhaps, which is in a niche segment). The cars are acknowledged as being good vehicles and worthy competitors to the rest of the field. The only reason they don't sell in significant numbers is because of the company which has made a mess of its business in India and has never gotten it right--for instance when the Palio was launched and got a fabulous response, everyone felt FIAT would finally get its act right, helped along by a good market response, yet FIAT managed to dig itself deeper in the hole.

So, flop company yes (in India), but definitely not flop cars!

- Ivor

P.S. I don't drive a FIAT car!
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Old 3rd May 2006, 11:21   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devarshi84
I think many can consider it not to be a flop. But I am certainly not one of them.

Bmw also sold all their funduro bikes at less than half the prices. should that be considered a hit?
BMW revised the price of the F650 just to clear unsold stocks. Same cannot be said about the Baleno. The car is still in production and not a loss making venture.
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Old 3rd May 2006, 11:23   #35
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Ivor, Atlast you got it right!!! Cheers!
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Old 3rd May 2006, 12:15   #36
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I would disagree with you Ivor, Finney.

First things first. A 'Flop Car' would be one that was rejected by the market. Plain and simple. In that case Fiat cars were a flop.

But if we are discussing a category called - 'Cars that deserve to be a flop', then Fiat cars are definitely not there.

I think that we should think more objectively. 'Flop' has a very negative connotation, hence I can understand the touchiness in a few of you. Being a flop according to me, does not automatically mean that the car was/is bad. It just means that the value proposition of the car was not communicated adequately / properly to the consumer. According to me the following cars were definitely a flop -

1. Standard 2000
2. Rover Montego (marketed, quite awfully I must say, by Sipani)
3. San Storm

To a large extent the following cars were flops too -

1. Fiat (all versions if you leave out the original hype; hope it turns around)
2. The Baleno (Till that magical U-turn done by Maruti)
3. Hyundai Elantra (pegging back, but still), Tuscon, Terracan
4. The Vectra (what a beauty and what a pity)

Cannot think of others. There were tonnes of cars earlier, but the old man (men, Rudra, Ram, Steer are you listening?) will be able to better educate us.

P.S. I am a Fiat owner, so dont jump on me! LOL
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Old 3rd May 2006, 15:41   #37
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TypeO-ve, I completely disagree with you that Palio was rejected by the market. Please realize that Palio is in the market for the past 5 long years (it was launched in India in 2001!) And there are lakhs of happy & satisfied owners of Palio in India. If it was a flop, it would have dissapeared from the market in 2001 itself. Agree, that it was not a super-hit like M-800, Santro etc, mainly bcoz Fiat India couldn't market it well. But, definitly it is a hit among the young populace of India. And, it is still the best car in B-segment against the likes of Getz, Swift etc.
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Old 3rd May 2006, 16:00   #38
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Does Cielo qualify as a flop? It did decently for a while and then got totally killed because of its FE and Daewoo going under.
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Old 3rd May 2006, 16:08   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finneyp
TypeO-ve, I completely disagree with you that Palio was rejected by the market. Please realize that Palio is in the market for the past 5 long years (it was launched in India in 2001!) And there are lakhs of happy & satisfied owners of Palio in India. If it was a flop, it would have dissapeared from the market in 2001 itself. Agree, that it was not a super-hit like M-800, Santro etc, mainly bcoz Fiat India couldn't market it well. But, definitly it is a hit among the young populace of India. And, it is still the best car in B-segment against the likes of Getz, Swift etc.
Finneyp, first of all, I do not think that Palio ever crossed that 1 Lakh mark. Second, it is in the market only since Fiat India has neither launched any other model nor has pulled down its shutters. I love that car (especially S10) and I do see lot of them on Pune road. But that is about it. Go outside Metros and you probably can count number of Palios on road on your fingertips. (It is even worse for Sienna/Petra, which sadly never took off).
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Old 3rd May 2006, 16:09   #40
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Actually I agree with TypeO... why a car failed may have lot of reasons. But when a car fails to sell even 100 cars in the whole year (and it is not one of those exclusive crorepati cars) it is a failure whichever way you look at it.
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
Talking about Fiat in particular, well, it definitely is a case-study on how to shoot yourself on the foot when the wind is blowing your way. A strong car that was a delight for the market simply went limp, and all that thanks to an apathetic company. Fiat Palio is still one of the best cars if you look at it just as a car. Unfortunately all the other associated factors were found to be woefully short though. No wonder it is in such a dire strait today. [SIZE=2] [/SIZE]

And yet, we can not call it a total flop, not yet. Simply because the manufacturers have not yet given up on it. The car is still in production. They are trying out newer strategies. And who knows, Fiat may just manage to do another Baleno! Hope springs from the fact that it still has a fan following here. If things start improving turning around its fortune won't be so difficult.
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Old 3rd May 2006, 16:29   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finneyp
TypeO-ve, I completely disagree with you that Palio was rejected by the market.
Finney, what were the sales figures for the Palios and Siennas/Petras over the years? What is the total number of Palios / Sienas / Petras sold? I am certain it is not lakhs (in the sense you are talking). Maybe two - three lakhs max. That should give you an idea.

One reason for the failure of these cars was that they were ahead of their time. The other was that they were not positioned well. I am not even speaking about the A.S.S. It is just because of the research that I did which resulted in my buying the Petra. It is a wonderful car, there has been nothing wrong with it. But if I was not staying in Mumbai/Pune, I think my choice would have been a Baleno. How many people do you think really research out their choice of car? Market perception is a big factor. Bigger than you think. I feel that the Fiat cars should have been selling in bigger numbers - atleast 20k per year to be placed in the non Flop category.

No disrespect to the car. But you must have an idea of how badly the company has let down its own product. :(
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Old 3rd May 2006, 19:34   #42
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Nimish, you might want to add the TATA Sierra and TATA Estate to your list.
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Old 4th May 2006, 09:58   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typeOnegative
Finney, what were the sales figures for the Palios and Siennas/Petras over the years? What is the total number of Palios / Sienas / Petras sold? I am certain it is not lakhs (in the sense you are talking). Maybe two - three lakhs max. That should give you an idea.

No disrespect to the car. But you must have an idea of how badly the company has let down its own product. :(
Just to give u guys an idea of Palio sales as per SIAM.

Year Sales Market share
2002-03 : 23,041 (4.1%)
2003-04 : 3,984 (0.4%)
Q1-2005 : 260 (0.1%)

So, while the car was really well received by the Indian market, subsequent sales show it to be a flop - just see the drop in the sales and the market share.
And the total number of palios may not even be close to a lakh - let alone lakh(s).

Though I would love to have the sales figures for last quarter to see if palio sales have really risen after tata alliance.

Last edited by goldie_malhotra : 4th May 2006 at 09:59.
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Old 4th May 2006, 10:19   #44
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Fiat had trusted the marketing in hands of GM which knows exactly what to do with what brand, now in hands of Tata (hope it revives)

In my experience 2 years back when we were at sundaram auto in bangalore looking out for palio.. they didnot bother to attend to us. In fact we were told straight that they wont support fiat, so we were taken to have a look at Opel Corsa Corsa sail, tavera, and optra...

Well it wasnt satisfactory.. and so we left.. but we could understand immediately the plight of fiat cars in the hands of GMs marketing..and why it was a bad show in india too
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Old 4th May 2006, 11:28   #45
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Either way, it is absurd to say that Palio was a flop!

Please realize the fact the Indian car market is driven by factors like -
1. Majority of car buyers in India are middle class and upper middle class & their car budget is 2.5 - 4 lacs, the criteria for buying a car would be - mileage, After Sales service etc, they are not bothered about - Safety, Ride comfort etc. So they endup buying a M-800, Alto, Santro, Indica.

2. There is a small minority mostly young populace who do a proper research on car, study the factors like Safety, Ride comfort, Space, *** and the decide on a Car. And it is here, where Palio was a success and continues to be success.

3. It is fact Fiat India couldn't position and market their superior Cars in India. It was a pure management failure.


4. The fact that Palio is in the Indian market for 5 years and still the best Car in the B-segment against the likes of new Cars like Getz, Swift etc, is enough to prove the success of Palio.
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