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Old 23rd April 2013, 16:23   #391
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

Here is how the 6 speed DSG-Lever looks in the 2.0 TDI Golf- MK VII.

Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15-dsc04174.jpg

Cheers!
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Old 23rd April 2013, 16:39   #392
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekz View Post

If we look at the premium B seg hatch, Hyundai already has a much more powerful 1.4L petrol automatic i20. Forget the 4 speed auto-box for a moment (how many people out there actually care if its a 4-speed or DSG), in terms of pure proposition the 1.4 i20 petrol is similar to what VW is trying with Polo GT. How many 1.4s does Hyundai manage to sell? That when i20 overall has a much higher sales figure..
Figures on paper don't tell you the full story my friend.

The 1.4 in the i20 may make 99 bhp, but it is the delivery of that horsepower and torque that matters.

- The Polo's 1.2 TSI is turbocharged and that makes a significant difference. The torque and power delivery is extremely peaky i.e. @ lower revs, so the torque is accessible earlier and the boost helps you hang on to the momentum it's generating. The 1.4 is the i20 is naturally aspirated and that means torque comes a little later, and to make maximum use of 99 horses, you need to wring the motor and keep it spinning up to 5000+ RPMs. Keeping the engine on the boil will translate to a motor that won't be efficient in the long run. I won't be surprised if I get better FE in the Polo TSI than in the i20 1.4.

- The gearbox is miles ahead of the lazy torque converters in Hyundai's. It's much more responsive, way more efficient and definitely more fun. It's a proper step up in the transmission department.

- Sure, Hyundai offers fancy equipment, but I've been switching my wipers and headlights on for 5 years and I don't mind doing it for another 5. That said, it's subjective. If equipment is priority, perhaps the i20 is your car. I wouldn't give Hyundai's after-sales-service a clean chit. Even VW is strictly average in that department.

- The Polo is a solid car and really well put together. I wish I could say the same about the i20. Build quality is not brilliant.

So I guess the Polo can afford to command that premium over the i20, simply because it has a better engine, drivetrain, gearbox and build quality.
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Old 23rd April 2013, 16:54   #393
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekz View Post
If we look at the premium B seg hatch, Hyundai already has a much more powerful 1.4L petrol automatic i20. Forget the 4 speed auto-box for a moment (how many people out there actually care if its a 4-speed or DSG), in terms of pure proposition the 1.4 i20 petrol is similar to what VW is trying with Polo GT. How many 1.4s does Hyundai manage to sell? That when i20 overall has a much higher sales figure.
It does make a lot of difference. A Turbo-charged petrol is like you are driving a petrol engine with the power/delivery features of a diesel. Its very evident in the low end torque that you would get.
Forget 1.4L Hyundai. The torque generated by the 1.2 TSI is far more than the 1.6L Petrol ! A Vento 1.6L petrol generates 153 nm @ 3800 rpm. The 1.2 TSI on the other hand generates 175nm starting at 1500 rpm! So imagine the boost you get while starting to drive!

Now coming to sales you do have a point that it wont sell. Any way its not intended for volumes in the first place. But if you compare; the 1.4 AT Hyundai is more meant for masses who want a nice comfortable premium AT hatch for city. The 1.2 TSI is for the enthusiasts only. Not what it takes for a 1.4AT i120 buyer to become a Polo TSI buyer? Nothing I would say. If a person is willing to buy the i20 AT, he would be more happier to buy the Polo TSI (of course if he is OK with space/boot).

Last edited by ampere : 23rd April 2013 at 17:00.
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Old 23rd April 2013, 17:08   #394
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

If a Vento 1.6 AT can cost 10+ lakhs on-road, 9 to 10 lakhs for a Polo 1.2 DSG is quite justified. Yes, you get a boot in the Vento but with the latter you are getting better technology and better safety.

Personally, I feel 9-10 lakhs OTR is decent pricing, and if below 9 lakhs its fantastic.

I hope this do well in our market. At this point, I don't see a competition in this space. If this clicks, we may get to see the likes of Punto 1.4 TJet, Fiesta1.0 Ecoboost, Jazz 1.5 etc.
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Old 23rd April 2013, 17:30   #395
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

As I had said before, it has the torque of a diesel monster with the razer sharp throttle of petrol.
you have appreciate VW, fiat and skoda for atleast trying to appeal to the enthusiast's crowd and not just bend over for the mass market.
I really hope that DSG proves to be reliable, we might see 1.4TSI with DSG on vento. And I hope VW sells well and cause others to bring the new generation automatics to the lower segments too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ampere View Post
It does make a lot of difference. A Turbo-charged petrol is like you are driving a petrol engine with the power/delivery features of a diesel. Its very evident in the low end torque that you would get.
Forget 1.4L Hyundai. The torque generated by the 1.2 TSI is far more than the 1.6L Petrol ! A Vento 1.6L petrol generates 153 nm @ 3800 rpm. The 1.2 TSI on the other hand generates 175nm starting at 1500 rpm! So imagine the boost you get while starting to drive!

Now coming to sales you do have a point that it wont sell. Any way its not intended for volumes in the first place. But if you compare; the 1.4 AT Hyundai is more meant for masses who want a nice comfortable premium AT hatch for city. The 1.2 TSI is for the enthusiasts only. Not what it takes for a 1.4AT i120 buyer to become a Polo TSI buyer? Nothing I would say. If a person is willing to buy the i20 AT, he would be more happier to buy the Polo TSI (of course if he is OK with space/boot).
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Old 23rd April 2013, 17:35   #396
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

I feel one major attraction that could draw the AT hatch buyer to this car will be its fuel efficiency. VAG cars with DSG boxes tend to deliver exceptionally good fuel efficiency figures which are almost at par with manual counterparts. Then there's the TSI engine which is also known to be quite frugal. The peak torque of 175nm starting from as low as 1500 rpm will allow the GB to stay in higher gears for longer durations.

Forget the i20, I am pretty sure this car will be far more fuel efficient than even the i10 AT. Effortless performance, coupled with good FE will be a major selling point for this car.

Last edited by Santoshbhat : 23rd April 2013 at 17:43.
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Old 23rd April 2013, 17:41   #397
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

I would have paid 10L on the road if it was plonked with a 1.4Tsi which is doing duty on the Jette. It would have made more sense to me

But I do appreciate VW to bring a superior engine at a relatively affordable price. Though will purchase this only after a year and a half after they give hefty discounts along with year-end discounts. Hopefully should get it at 9L on road
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Old 23rd April 2013, 17:54   #398
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15





Though its a niche product, betting on too much premium for the Polo TSI is not good. At the end of the day, you must show some sales to justify the effort taken to bring the TSI engine here. At 10 L OTR, i don't think its gonna do that.
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Old 23rd April 2013, 18:32   #399
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

^^ Forget discounts, just watch it's prices go southwards in the used car market 2 years down the road (if VW does manage to sell some numbers that is). The fate of polo and fabia 1.6 is too well known to be ignored.

Up north, I will be surprised to even see one plying on the road. Still have a total of two spottings of the Linea T Jet ever since it got launched. Can't even begin to think what it's resale value must be these days.
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Old 23rd April 2013, 18:47   #400
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

Quote:
Originally Posted by suhaas307 View Post
1) 9.5 lakhs ex showroom is pricey, whichever way you look at it. However, there are two ways to look at this:

- A petrol hatchback with a potentially dodgy gearbox @ the price of diesel sedans. No thank you, I want more metal for the money.

- A really quick petrol hatch mated to a convenient DSG 'box that let's you have some fun? For 10 lakhs? Your next best bet is the naturally aspirated Mini Cooper (non S) that makes 20 horses more but it's more than twice the price!

Now if you are the sort who relies on one car for all the purposes, i.e. School run, office run, the occasional drive to Goa or Ooty, then forget about the Polo TSI, you're wasting your time @ 10 lakhs, you get several cars that will prove to be more practical than the VW.

But for those looking to buy a second car predominantly for city driving, and you do 15-20 km in a day / on an average, it's a no brainer. That is, if you don't mind blowing 10 lakhs on a second car.

2) The only diesel car that comes with an automatic is the Verna. The Rapid / Vento diesels come only with manuals

I seem to befall into the sort that shall rely on one car, as I need one seperate from my family. I had a mindset that this shall be proving as a good proud 'first car' (provided VW overcomes the DSG 7 speed grave concerns like the latest one - In March 2012 VW China group has admitted there could be an issue in its seven-speed DSG gearboxes that may affect approximately 500,000 vehicles from its various subsidiaries in China. A software upgrade has since been offered to the affected vehicles in an attempt to repair the problem), based on some points like
-Hatches are quick take off, easy to park, cool to drive in traffic
-DSG provides a processor that shall help me with the perfect gear engagement to give me the increased fuel economy
-occasionally I would travel to my place in western ghats, hoping the extra torque would cater the ghat roads that are sometimes steep (got some details on engine performance from wiki, so sharing)

I also heard some reduced duties for european cars that shall make them 30-35% cheap, so Mini's would be available at 30% less cost, but that is to happen till 2017, so out of my scope
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Old 23rd April 2013, 19:58   #401
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

Quote:
Originally Posted by rejoycjohn View Post
Polo still sells in EU with 1.2 3 cyl engine. Its not discontinued.
Oh. I was actually referring to the discontinuation of 1.2 3 Cylinder Fuel-Stratified engine which has been mentioned in the ICB scoop information.

What I wanted to say is that, the TSI unit in Polo GT is a 4-Cylinder unit.

It is correct that 1.2 3 Cylinder NA engine is still under production in Europe. (VW India imports its engines from Europe - if an engine is getting discontinued there, it will definitely get discontinued in India).

Anyway, thanks for pointing out. I should have been more clear in my post.
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Old 23rd April 2013, 20:47   #402
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

Nice Video, though he got one thing wrong.
The car DOES NOT select one gear higher AND one gear lower at the same time.
The car selects one gear HIGHER (or one lower, but not both).
From what I understand Ford's DCT always pre-selects the higher gear on the alternate clutch. Perhaps VW's could be smarter and pre-selects higher or lower based on the current situation (i.e accelerating or decelerating). If they dont, then you will have fast upshifts, but relatively slow down shifts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by drpudhi View Post




Though its a niche product, betting on too much premium for the Polo TSI is not good. At the end of the day, you must show some sales to justify the effort taken to bring the TSI engine here. At 10 L OTR, i don't think its gonna do that.
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Old 23rd April 2013, 22:20   #403
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

i'm really looking forward to this car. We have a Jazz that i absolutely love and am now in two minds whether to sell the jazz and get this or not. The jazz has been bought last year in august btw.
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Old 24th April 2013, 08:27   #404
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

I think this is overpriced by at least a lakh. To bring things into perspective, we need to compare it to the closes turbo petrol car, which is TJet.

At around 9.5L OTR (after discounts) this gives a 1.4L turbo petrol engine and a whole lot of car than the 1.2 TSI polo.

I'll believe that the TJet is the car that anyone can have most fun and priced below 20L in India. The only difference seems to be a DSG.

The pricing of 1.2 TSI will show how much VFM TJet was!
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Old 24th April 2013, 09:00   #405
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

Quote:
Originally Posted by sriramv.iyer View Post
At around 9.5L OTR (after discounts) this gives a 1.4L turbo petrol engine and a whole lot of car than the 1.2 TSI polo.
Are you sure the TJet is launched and that too at the price under 10L OTR?

I think we are speculating too much, company hasn't yet officially launched the GT TSI in India neither they have declared any price. We have talked enough on price front so now we should give the price discussion a halt for the moment till we get official price and we should continue other informative discussions about the 1.2 TSI engine in this thread.
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