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Old 24th April 2013, 14:12   #421
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
...Dynamic trim - which would make the price around 10.5L OTR... (If you can ignore the DSG, that is!).
If Dynamic is 10.5, Emotion would easily be 11.5 with leather seats et al. Will they price it so high, given the fact that it was still going for huge discounts last year?

That will kill the sales again, and it would make better sense to launch the completely new version in 2014, and not launch it now.

I'm expecting the Emotion variant to be priced below 11 OTR Bangalore.
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Old 24th April 2013, 14:13   #422
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

Quote:
Originally Posted by dipen View Post
The manual box will surely come. VW cannot risk mating the 1.2 to DSG only. Risk because if DSG problems pop up in high numbers, it will ruin things to a very high level. They cannot take this risk and will not.

All is a question of when.
I strongly suspect that they might bring the manual box with TSI engine in the Fabia at a much less price. That way, they can position skoda below VW like it is in rest of the world. Also, the same happened with Fabia 1.6 which quickly followed the polo 1.6.
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Old 24th April 2013, 14:38   #423
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaibir View Post
For some (including me), the DSG is the very reason to not even consider the Polo GT. I've seen a friend suffer multiple gearbox replacements over 3 years on a Superb AT. He finally sold it weeks before the warranty was expiring.
I have looking forward for this car, and hence searching for some evidences on the 7-speed DSG failures. Seems to found below issues since addressed then by VW-
-unplanned shifts to the neutral gear (Nov 2009 in US)
-Faulty temperature sensors (Nov 2009 in US)
-Loss of power whilst driving (Aug 2009 in US)
-Abnormal noise, excessive shift shock, abnormal increase in engine RPM, flashing gear indicator on the dashboard as well as unable to shift to even-numbered gears (Apr 2012 in China, India)
-To refer more such issues in details, check out personal experiences by our fellow BhPians, in a seperate theread for DSG failures

Now, lets understand the DSG gearbox evolution first:
2003 - VW code DQ250; First DSG launced by VW, 6-speed Forward, 1 reverse, available for in transversely oriented front-engine, front-wheel-drive or Haldex Traction-based four-wheel-drive vehicle layouts, was in production till 2007
Points to Note:
1) It had wet/submerged multi-plate clutch packs

2008 - VW code DQ200; introduced the seven-speed DSG transaxle (where I believe the problems are for this one)
Points to be Noted:
1) It used two single-plate dry clutches (of similar diameter)
2) It was builf for smaller front-wheel-drive cars with smaller displacement engines with lower torque outputs
3) It has considerably less oil capacity than the six-speed DQ250; this new DQ200 uses just 1.7 litres (0.37 imp gal; 0.45 US gal) of transmission fluid ***

Late 2008 - VW code DQ501; all-new seven-speed longitudinal 'S tronic' version of the DSG transaxle went into series production, led by AUDI, so started to use in AUDI
Points to be Noted:
1) It had more clutch plates that DQ200, Outer around 10, and smaller inner had 12
2) Lubrication system Audi now utilise two totally separate oil circuits, One oil circuit, consisting of 7.5 litres (1.65 imp gal; 1.98 US gal), lubricates the hydraulic clutches and mechatronics with fully synthetic specialist automatic transmission fluid (ATF), whilst the other oil circuit lubricates the gear trains and front and centre differentials with 4.3 litres (0.95 imp gal; 1.14 US gal) of conventional hypoid gear oil. This dual circuit lubrication is aimed at increasing overall reliability, due to eliminating cross-contamination of debris and wear particles ***

2010 - VW code DQ500; new seven-speed DSG built to support 500 Nm, believed to be first used in AUdi TT-RS

*** One can easily makeout that DQ200 is smaller unit and sustains less fluid for lubrication, as compared to DQ250, or DQ501

Now, what VW has done so far on this concerns -
-Replacement of Gearbox if under warranty of 2 Years (Dec 2012, Stockholm)
-Software Upgrade for its computer counterpart (2012 China)

Again, per news in Dec 2012, VW has issues in DSG applied to the Passat EcoFuel, (VW does claim that Polo has structurally different DSG box that Passat) but one point they mentioned for this passat DSG is -
"For individuals this is not the problems as obvious. Volkswagen insists that the problem only occurs in taxis - The problem with the DSG is not due to mileage, it has to do with driving style that is specifically for the taxi, with many starts and stops, explains Marcus Thomas Folk, Communications Manager at Volkswagen Group Sweden, for the art world"

(extracts are from wiki, and its links to various news)

So Does DSG has some issues with the frequency a driver starts and stops, Not clear..

Question is How is this new DSG box going to behave, and what are the upgrades applied to the box to avoid any of the failures occurred before. Adaption to better lubrication, and to the driving style can be the focus though

Hope you, and my fellow BHPians find this analysis useful !!
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Old 24th April 2013, 14:54   #424
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

I held off all along , but just thought of setting a few things straight about the t-jet, since the discussion has now veered towards a t-jet v/s 1.2 tsi debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prithwi-81 View Post
Yes i have driven the Linea TJet and was pretty impressed with it. Handles very well and good power delivery too, but the weight was just so much of a bother, and I wasnt too impressed with the braking as well as the interior quality that i decided against it.
you say it has good power delivery, but you also say the weight is affecting performance. Isn't that contradicting in itself? How can a car feel powerful if it is sluggish? Sorry if I didn't understand you properly.

By the way, the power-to-weight ratio of the T-Jet is close to 100 PS/ton (~95 to be precise), which is not bad. Polo 1.2 TSI with 105PS will have a similar or negligibly higher power-to-weight figure. T-Jet could have been more powerful, yes I agree; it should not have been detuned for India (original specs are 155PS, comparable to Laura TSI's 160PS). Is the weight making it very sluggish? Not very, unless one potters around at 1000 rpm all day. It is a hoot to drive just like all other turbo petrols.

The issue is not with the weight, but with the T-Jet's de-tuning. Laura vRS weighs ~1.4 tons v/s T-Jet's ~1.2 tons despite both having similar outer dimensions, but the 45PS extra power in the Laura more than compensates for the difference in weight.

I'm surprised to hear about bad braking on a t-jet! It has all round discs and has one of the best braking abilities in its segment and even betters some cars one segment above it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dipen View Post
The T-Jet offered great handling and a enthusiast motor. But the problem was:
- FE was at least 2 lower than competition in the segment
Most T-jets including mine give 9-10 kmpl in the city with 100% AC on. Most other petrol cars (NA or otherwise) with similar power specs give similar FE figures. Not sure from where the "at least 2 kmpl lesser" generalized figure comes from.
Quote:
- Interiors were not assembled nicely.
Completely agree there. the dashboard panel fitting could have been done better.
Quote:
- It was launched in the diesel era where very few enthusiasts would go for petrol cars
City still sold in thousands when the T-Jet was launched, so I wouldn't attribute this to the diesel popularity alone. The City was and still is a clear all-round winner in that segment. T-Jet's failure has more to do with Fiat's image in the market, relatively bad servicing and lack of advertising/marketing by Fiat about the abilities of this car.
Quote:
- Honda City was (at least perceived) to have better quality overall and good resale.
Agree

Quote:
India is a FE oriented market and the T-jet offers one of the lowest like the Fiesta 1.6 (ARAI numbers).
It is not one of the lowest. 9-10 kmpl is pretty much acceptable for any C segment sedan. Please show me any petrol sedan which gives a substantially high FE than that.
Quote:
Why would someone buy the T-Jet when you can buy the City base version all required safety bells at near 8.5 Mumbai OTR.
Because he/she might find a similarly priced turbo-petrol more fun-to-drive, with more torque, all 4 disc brakes, better dynamics and ride quality, better build quality, bigger tyres, more equipment on the inside, and plush Italian leather upholstery to complete the picture. Brand image and servicing concerns aside of course. They each cater to distinct categories of buyers within the C segment target audience.

Quote:
Regarding the Polo TSI, even if it does not do numbers, VW will use this launch to showcase the DSG and 1.2 motor to volume segment customers.
+1. I would so like this model to succeed in India. It is easily going to be the most fun-to-drive petrol hatch out there, and would be a superb proposition. Like someone else mentioned earlier, it will also trigger other car makers to start bringing turbo-petrol-powered hatchbacks, which will be a great thing from an enthusiast's perspective.

Last edited by KarthikK : 24th April 2013 at 15:11.
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Old 24th April 2013, 15:11   #425
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

Quote:
Originally Posted by dipen View Post
The T-Jet offered great handling and a enthusiast motor. But the problem was:
- It was over-weight compared to the competition which hampers performance as well as FE
- FE was at least 2 lower than competition in the segment
- Interiors were not assembled nicely.
- It was launched in the diesel era where very few enthusiasts would go for petrol cars
- Honda City was (at least perceived) to have better quality overall and good resale.

Even today no matter how many times the T-jet is launched, it will not sell unless the it is launched at sub-7.00 ex-showroom which they cannot. India is a FE oriented market and the T-jet offers one of the lowest like the Fiesta 1.6 (ARAI numbers). Why would someone buy the T-Jet when you can buy the City base version all required safety bells at near 8.5 Mumbai OTR.
This would be slightly OT, but i am replying in context to turbocharged engines v/s manual ones with relevance with 1.2 TSi as well.

Honda City is a brilliant machine no doubt, but T-Jet makes 207Nm @ 2200 rpm. Something a city can't even come close to! How does it translate to real world performance? It simply shoots off from as low as 1800 rpm, whereas the city is still suffering from the 'honda'esque low rpm dullness. It made just 2Nm torque less than the multijet 90HP. Talk about merging the best of both worlds.

Another advantage with these turbo charged petrols - is that they pretty much deliver close to their qouted efficiency figures - thanks to all that torque available lower down the rev-range. Keep up the same spirited driving in a naturally aspirated petrol (would require much higher rpms for the same) - and see the mileage figures drop!

Lets take further discussion about T-Jet here -
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ve-review.html (Fiat Linea T-Jet : Test Drive & Review)

For more on turbocharged engines and 1.2 TSi and particular - I'm game to discuss further.
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Old 24th April 2013, 17:31   #426
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbppjpr View Post
If we see that possibility then the speculations about CS version of Vento also seem true and maybe VW is bringing the Polo TSI to see the results of the engine for CS sedan!

A hatchback with expensive gearbox and egnine combo may not sell in significant numbers but a tax saving CS sedan may crunch numbers for them.
Why just CS, if the Polo 1.2 TSI do decent numbers we probably may see this in the Vento very soon, replacing the current 1.6 petrol.
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Old 24th April 2013, 19:59   #427
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

Quote:
Originally Posted by vb-san View Post
Why just CS, if the Polo 1.2 TSI do decent numbers we probably may see this in the Vento very soon, replacing the current 1.6 petrol.
I would be curious to see what Skoda does with it!
A Fabia/Rapid 1.2?

Fabia in particular would be perfect. Space, comfort and power!
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Old 24th April 2013, 21:01   #428
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Default

Launch delayed to 29th April and an additional pic.

Clear body details. No kit from the SR. New rear spoiler

Name:  1366817674000.jpg
Views: 2411
Size:  237.4 KB

Last edited by Vid6639 : 24th April 2013 at 21:12. Reason: merging back to back posts. Please use the edit option when quoting within 30mins.
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Old 24th April 2013, 22:28   #429
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

Overdrive has teased that the first drive report of the Polo GT will be up live tomorrow morning.

Hope to see the team-bhp report as soon as possible.
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Old 25th April 2013, 08:10   #430
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

I happened to see a LHD Polo about 2 weeks back in Pune, clearly mentioned "LHD" on back bumper.
Well, it undoubtedly is a Polo but am unable to clearly read it from the rear badge. I was expecting to find something like "TSI" or "GT" on it (the badge) but could not clearly read it due to image quality. Not sure why it somehow resembles to something like Golf, is it illuding to only me or anybody else out there?

Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15-dsc00994.jpg
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Old 25th April 2013, 09:21   #431
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

And here's Top Gear's first take on the Polo GT:
http://www.topgear.com/india/volkswa...-tsi/itemid-51
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Old 25th April 2013, 09:25   #432
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

Quote:
Originally Posted by iSpoke View Post
I happened to see a LHD Polo about 2 weeks back in Pune, clearly mentioned "LHD" on back bumper.
Well, it undoubtedly is a Polo but am unable to clearly read it from the rear badge. I was expecting to find something like "TSI" or "GT" on it (the badge) but could not clearly read it due to image quality. Not sure why it somehow resembles to something like Golf, is it illuding to only me or anybody else out there?

Attachment 1077265
Its not a Golf, its a Polo for LHD countries.

Polo was discontinued in the UAE because Polo 1.4 was not doing good against the likes of Peugeot 206.

The Polo Sedan (Vento in India) has found reasonable success here in the UAE, im sure the Polo hatch would be back with a 1.2 TSi/1.6 ltr engine.

Im sure its for ME market as for the south american market, there exists a VW plant in brazil.

Incidently there is a Fabia VRS with 180 bhp sold in the UAE!
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Old 25th April 2013, 10:46   #433
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

Autocar's review of the 1.2 TSI would be on website today after 12:00pm, tweets Hormazd!

Cheers!
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Old 25th April 2013, 11:00   #434
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitg79 View Post
And here's Top Gear's first take on the Polo GT:
http://www.topgear.com/india/volkswa...-tsi/itemid-51
Amitg79, I think there is something wrong with that link. I am getting a http 404 error. Maybe topgear removed the link themselves once the launch date was postponed
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Old 25th April 2013, 11:04   #435
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Default Re: Scoop! VW Polo TSI spotted testing in India *UPDATE* Fresh Scoop pics on Pg.15

Quote:
Originally Posted by iSpoke View Post
I happened to see a LHD Polo about 2 weeks back in Pune, clearly mentioned "LHD" on back bumper.
Well, it undoubtedly is a Polo but am unable to clearly read it from the rear badge. I was expecting to find something like "TSI" or "GT" on it (the badge) but could not clearly read it due to image quality. Not sure why it somehow resembles to something like Golf, is it illuding to only me or anybody else out there?

Attachment 1077265
Seems like Polo LHD will now be manufactured in Pune also, and exported, like the Polo sedan a.k.a Vento
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